Sens Lineup Card for 11/12

Da Costa's making a case...

Filatov - Spezza - Alfredsson
Regin - Da Costa - Michalek
Foligno - Z. Smith - Butler
Greening - Konopka - Neil
Condra

Phillips - Lee
Kuba - Karlsson
Cowen - Gonchar
Carkner

Anderson
Auld

EDIT: I totally forgot about Winch in there...

Don't disagree about DaCosta making a case. But as has been said before, he has to outplay Regin by a mile to take the 2C spot away, and he hasn't. So I still think 2C goes to Regin, but DaCosta has made a case for sticking around, at least for a while. Zibanejad has also made a case for himself to get a few games, at least, on the 3rd line somewhere. DaCosta is an easy callup, but Zibanejad goes back to Sweden. No sense keeping them both here so I think DaCosta starts in Bingo and Zibanejad gets 4-5 games to see what he does against full NHL rosters (frankly, if he's playing 3rd line, it won't be much different from what he's faced so far).

Does anyone, at this point, think that Kuba is better in the top-four than Cowen? I'd try Cowen-Karlsson and Kuba-Gonchar for at least a couple of games. As much as it hurts putting a $8.2M on the third pairing, what can you do? Long-term I think we'd all agree Cowen-Karlsson is our top-pairing, so why not have them as our 1B for now?

wprager wrote:Don't disagree about DaCosta making a case. But as has been said before, he has to outplay Regin by a mile to take the 2C spot away, and he hasn't. So I still think 2C goes to Regin, but DaCosta has made a case for sticking around, at least for a while. Zibanejad has also made a case for himself to get a few games, at least, on the 3rd line somewhere. DaCosta is an easy callup, but Zibanejad goes back to Sweden. No sense keeping them both here so I think DaCosta starts in Bingo and Zibanejad gets 4-5 games to see what he does against full NHL rosters (frankly, if he's playing 3rd line, it won't be much different from what he's faced so far).

Does anyone, at this point, think that Kuba is better in the top-four than Cowen? I'd try Cowen-Karlsson and Kuba-Gonchar for at least a couple of games. As much as it hurts putting a $8.2M on the third pairing, what can you do? Long-term I think we'd all agree Cowen-Karlsson is our top-pairing, so why not have them as our 1B for now?

I have to agree. If Z-bad can only go to the SEL, then so be it. Da Costa has shown he's an EASY call-up from Bingo.

As for Cowen, he's literally twice as good as Kuba right now. I'm not even exaggerating, he's...simply better. But we all know Kuba can find his game (hopefully).

Filatov - Spezza - Butler
Michalek - Da Costa - Alfredsson
Foligno - Regin - Condra
Greening - Z.Smith - Neil
Konopka, Winnie

Cowen - Gonchar
Phillips - Lee
Kuba - Karlsson
Carkner

Anderson
Auld

Some guy posted that at HF. I think that's pretty much the best lineup they can ice right now.

That 2nd line is arguably our best. And although we can't justify having Karlsson as a 3rd pairing D-man, you can't argue with Kuba being one...

The only thing I disagree with is Greening over Konopka. Imo Greening has been really poor this preseason. A 4th line of Smith-Konopka-Neil would be solid and obviously tough as nails.

That being said, you could also do:

Regin - Smith - Condra
Foligno - Konopka - Neil

How is Winchester in that lineup? Or is that in general -- for the regular season?

Actually there's no way Konopka or Winchester are *not* the 4th line center. Smith is 3C. DaCosta will get a look, but Regin is the most likely candidate for 2C and DaCosta for Bingo.

wprager wrote:Actually there's no way Konopka or Winchester are *not* the 4th line center. Smith is 3C. DaCosta will get a look, but Regin is the most likely candidate for 2C and DaCosta for Bingo.

It's most likely because of contract status, but based on play? It's Da Costa. (all the way.... I didn't want to write that because of the rhyme, but )

cash wrote:

wprager wrote:Actually there's no way Konopka or Winchester are *not* the 4th line center. Smith is 3C. DaCosta will get a look, but Regin is the most likely candidate for 2C and DaCosta for Bingo.

It's most likely because of contract status, but based on play? It's Da Costa. (all the way.... I didn't want to write that because of the rhyme, but )

He has not outplayed Regin. He's shown better than I expected, but so has Regin. At this point, as much as I've been impressed with DaCosta, I'd keep Zibanejad. I'd play him on the wing until injuries dictated otherwise, and see how things go after a handful of games. One thing Zibanejad has over DaCosta is size.

wprager wrote:

cash wrote:

wprager wrote:Actually there's no way Konopka or Winchester are *not* the 4th line center. Smith is 3C. DaCosta will get a look, but Regin is the most likely candidate for 2C and DaCosta for Bingo.

It's most likely because of contract status, but based on play? It's Da Costa. (all the way.... I didn't want to write that because of the rhyme, but )

He has not outplayed Regin. He's shown better than I expected, but so has Regin. At this point, as much as I've been impressed with DaCosta, I'd keep Zibanejad. I'd play him on the wing until injuries dictated otherwise, and see how things go after a handful of games. One thing Zibanejad has over DaCosta is size.

Zibanejad looks NHL ready in terms of skill and size. To me, he just looks like he has trouble reading the play developing at this speed. He's very close, tho', if you ask me.

We have a lot of guys who will start in the AHL who will be able to step up comfortably in the NHL at a moment's notice, in the event of injury. Grant and Hoffman have looked steady. Ditto Boro.

Cowen looks like a vet of 5+ years already. Very stabilizing force out there.

wprager wrote:
He has not outplayed Regin. He's shown better than I expected, but so has Regin. At this point, as much as I've been impressed with DaCosta, I'd keep Zibanejad. I'd play him on the wing until injuries dictated otherwise, and see how things go after a handful of games. One thing Zibanejad has over DaCosta is size.

I'd keep Da Costa and send Zibby down to SEL. Unless you're the next Crosby, Stamkos etc. I don't think you should be in the NHL at 18 and he JUST turned 18. What's the rush ?

Given same ice time, same linemates I think Da Costa would put up more points and generate more scoring chances over Regin. Da Costa creates "How the Diddle did he pull that off ?" moves, that's the kind of sheer talent you need in the top-6. Regin is a great player though.

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:

cash wrote:

wprager wrote:Actually there's no way Konopka or Winchester are *not* the 4th line center. Smith is 3C. DaCosta will get a look, but Regin is the most likely candidate for 2C and DaCosta for Bingo.

It's most likely because of contract status, but based on play? It's Da Costa. (all the way.... I didn't want to write that because of the rhyme, but )

He has not outplayed Regin. He's shown better than I expected, but so has Regin. At this point, as much as I've been impressed with DaCosta, I'd keep Zibanejad. I'd play him on the wing until injuries dictated otherwise, and see how things go after a handful of games. One thing Zibanejad has over DaCosta is size.

Zibanejad looks NHL ready in terms of skill and size. To me, he just looks like he has trouble reading the play developing at this speed. He's very close, tho', if you ask me.

We have a lot of guys who will start in the AHL who will be able to step up comfortably in the NHL at a moment's notice, in the event of injury. Grant and Hoffman have looked steady. Ditto Boro.

Cowen looks like a vet of 5+ years already. Very stabilizing force out there.

Agreed on all points (including yours wprager).

One thing you can't discount is the undeniable chemistry he's shown with Michalek. He's got the primary assists on both Michalek's goals and has set him up 4-5 more times in prime scoring opportunities. He has a lot to work on still and that can be done in the AHL as much as in the NHL, but his ability to contribute to our offense cannot and should not be undervalued.

Will he start here? Probably, but I think 23 players will be available on opening night. Will he play in the first game? I don't know. Imo he should. He just creates so much and makes such clever plays with the puck. His vision is already elite. His skill is solid.

Hoags wrote:

wprager wrote:
He has not outplayed Regin. He's shown better than I expected, but so has Regin. At this point, as much as I've been impressed with DaCosta, I'd keep Zibanejad. I'd play him on the wing until injuries dictated otherwise, and see how things go after a handful of games. One thing Zibanejad has over DaCosta is size.

I'd keep Da Costa and send Zibby down to SEL. Unless you're the next Crosby, Stamkos etc. I don't think you should be in the NHL at 18 and he JUST turned 18. What's the rush ?

Given same ice time, same linemates I think Da Costa would put up more points and generate more scoring chances over Regin. Da Costa creates "How the Diddle did he pull that off ?" moves, that's the kind of sheer talent you need in the top-6. Regin is a great player though.

Ryan O'Reilly, Jeff Skinner, Evander Kane, Mikkel Boedker, Cam Fowler, Luke Schenn, Sam Gagner, David Perron.... all recent draftees that were taken outside the top-3 that played as 18 year olds.

I'm not saying its what should be done, but some kids are ready and some are simply joining teams where they'll play a role.

Agreed on Da Costa. My point is simply that he has shown much better chemistry with Michalek than could have been expected.

Alexander Burmistrov is the perfect example IMO. He did not have a lot of points but he is looking great this pre-season and playing as an 18-year old getting 3rd line minutes did not hurt him.

One guy who should NEVER have sticked was Filatov. Don't know what Columbus was thinking.

Big Ev wrote:Alexander Burmistrov is the perfect example IMO. He did not have a lot of points but he is looking great this pre-season and playing as an 18-year old getting 3rd line minutes did not hurt him.

One guy who should NEVER have sticked was Filatov. Don't know what Columbus was thinking.

No idea. They weren't is the best way of looking at it. He needed to be brought up slowly not rushed. Typical young, small bodied player that can't be rushed.

I don't know what they were thinking trading him for a 3rd. I really don't. New coach, clean slate, let's get you in there and see what we have. If he sucks...does that pick go from a 3rd to a 5th? That's a gamble I would have taken personally.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Alexander Burmistrov is the perfect example IMO. He did not have a lot of points but he is looking great this pre-season and playing as an 18-year old getting 3rd line minutes did not hurt him.

One guy who should NEVER have sticked was Filatov. Don't know what Columbus was thinking.

No idea. They weren't is the best way of looking at it. He needed to be brought up slowly not rushed. Typical young, small bodied player that can't be rushed.

I don't know what they were thinking trading him for a 3rd. I really don't. New coach, clean slate, let's get you in there and see what we have. If he sucks...does that pick go from a 3rd to a 5th? That's a gamble I would have taken personally.

It was not a new coach. Same coach as last year, and he wore out his welcome with him too.

It's really not hard to understand CBJ's perspective TBH. A player who you really can't stand anymore, who has no value at the moment...they traded him for whatever they could get.

And they probably thought Ottawa's 3rd was pretty much the best of the bunch.

Hoags wrote:

wprager wrote:
He has not outplayed Regin. He's shown better than I expected, but so has Regin. At this point, as much as I've been impressed with DaCosta, I'd keep Zibanejad. I'd play him on the wing until injuries dictated otherwise, and see how things go after a handful of games. One thing Zibanejad has over DaCosta is size.

I'd keep Da Costa and send Zibby down to SEL. Unless you're the next Crosby, Stamkos etc. I don't think you should be in the NHL at 18 and he JUST turned 18. What's the rush ?

Given same ice time, same linemates I think Da Costa would put up more points and generate more scoring chances over Regin. Da Costa creates "How the Diddle did he pull that off ?" moves, that's the kind of sheer talent you need in the top-6. Regin is a great player though.

Agree with the 1st part, disagree with the 2nd. Da Costa has outplayed Zibanejad in this camp, for that reason only I think you send Zibanejad back to The SEL. The best players should be on the team and Da Costa has looked really, really good.

The 2nd part, you look at Skinner, Burmistrov, Kulikov, Perron, all those guys played at 18 and they have been nothing short of very good to great since that time. You can develop players at The NHL level. A guy like Filatov is an example of a player that wasn't ready and was in an organization that destroys prospects. It all depends on the player. Zibanejad IMO is NHL ready but he's being outplayed. You're right when you say there is no rush, but right now with Da Costa playing the way he has, there is no room in Ottawa for him.

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Alexander Burmistrov is the perfect example IMO. He did not have a lot of points but he is looking great this pre-season and playing as an 18-year old getting 3rd line minutes did not hurt him.

One guy who should NEVER have sticked was Filatov. Don't know what Columbus was thinking.

No idea. They weren't is the best way of looking at it. He needed to be brought up slowly not rushed. Typical young, small bodied player that can't be rushed.

I don't know what they were thinking trading him for a 3rd. I really don't. New coach, clean slate, let's get you in there and see what we have. If he sucks...does that pick go from a 3rd to a 5th? That's a gamble I would have taken personally.

It was not a new coach. Same coach as last year, and he wore out his welcome with him too.

It's really not hard to understand CBJ's perspective TBH. A player who you really can't stand anymore, who has no value at the moment...they traded him for whatever they could get.

I think it was more of a rush job, they had a player in mind at the draft their scouts really liked, they could get him with Ottawa's pick. Filatov wasn't going to play in COlumbus so they did what was best for their organization at that point in time. If he was shopped around for a month or two I would bet her gets a 3rd or another player who may have fallen out of favour with a team.

W/e, it seems to be Ottawa's gain here. If he reaches 1/2 of his true potential, he's a legit 2nd line player. He's also surrounded by a great mix of vets and players his age that he can grow with, I think that's critical in his development from this point on... Columbus had none of that, just a bunch of players thrown together with one star who is bigger than the team there.

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Alexander Burmistrov is the perfect example IMO. He did not have a lot of points but he is looking great this pre-season and playing as an 18-year old getting 3rd line minutes did not hurt him.

One guy who should NEVER have sticked was Filatov. Don't know what Columbus was thinking.

No idea. They weren't is the best way of looking at it. He needed to be brought up slowly not rushed. Typical young, small bodied player that can't be rushed.

I don't know what they were thinking trading him for a 3rd. I really don't. New coach, clean slate, let's get you in there and see what we have. If he sucks...does that pick go from a 3rd to a 5th? That's a gamble I would have taken personally.

It was not a new coach. Same coach as last year, and he wore out his welcome with him too.

It's really not hard to understand CBJ's perspective TBH. A player who you really can't stand anymore, who has no value at the moment...they traded him for whatever they could get.

I think it was more of a rush job, they had a player in mind at the draft their scouts really liked, they could get him with Ottawa's pick. Filatov wasn't going to play in COlumbus so they did what was best for their organization at that point in time. If he was shopped around for a month or two I would bet her gets a 3rd or another player who may have fallen out of favour with a team.

W/e, it seems to be Ottawa's gain here. If he reaches 1/2 of his true potential, he's a legit 2nd line player. He's also surrounded by a great mix of vets and players his age that he can grow with, I think that's critical in his development from this point on... Columbus had none of that, just a bunch of players thrown together with one star who is bigger than the team there.

It was supposed to be a swap of first round picks. Ottawa's 1st and 3rd for Columbus's 1st and Filatov. Filatov was the price they would pay to move up two spots, and because that's pretty steep, Ottawa tosses in a 3rd. Somehow Murray convinced them to do the deal anyways, after that first was shipped to Philly.

Now that I think about it, it makes more sense for it to be a 4th initially that they made a 3rd once the larger deal fell apart. Either way, Murray made it happen without the 1st's being involved, which is pretty amazing.