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Does Fisher's trade signify a Rebuild?

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PTFlea


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Mike Fisher was always a big part of the Senators. As the years went on and we reached this nightmare place we’re in now, he became an even bigger part of the Senators - and not in a positive way. Fisher would go through major stretches of the year ice cold. Very few goals, very few points, oft injured, couldn’t initiate contact - basically useless out there. So, why keep him? That’s the question that has to be asked to people who have an emotional connection with him - or maybe it’s the question to ask anybody unhappy with this move.

Fisher averaged just under 20 minutes of ice time a night, he would get power-play time, penalty killing time, even strength time and yet the best he could do was 14 goals and 25 assists for 4.2 million is cap space and 4 million in actual salary (Fisher’s salary decreases to 3 million in his final year, making him much more attractive to a budget team like Nashville). Is anyone suggesting that Chris Kelly couldn’t do more with that amount of ice time/PP time etc.? And then if Kelly moves up, couldn’t Jesse Winchester take his place? Then couldn’t Zach Smith take his place on line 4? The answer is yes, yes and yes.

So the question remains: is this a rebuild move, or is this just a smart hockey decision? Get back an asset that you can use going forward, the Nashville 1st round pick. Use it to draft a big, scoring forward, or use it to get the player you want in the top 5, or use it to try to acquire some young, strong talent up front. Any way you slice it, it opens up money, a roster spot and a sense of ‘it’s not good enough’. And it’s not good enough - and that goes for Chris Phillips as well. As the former core of this team, we needed those guys to step up more than they ever have in their careers, instead, we hear of a bunch of guys who dislike another coach. Another coach? When does it cease to be coaches’ fault and start to be players’ fault? Right now.

Rebuild my foot, the Sens now have an admirable chunk of money to use when they see fit. Does that mean go out and spend it all in one swoop? No, of course not. It means you wait until the opportunity presents itself and you take cap dumps - much like Atlanta did to Chicago. You get good players and you simply take on cap dollars. It works and it happens a lot. There will be several teams, including the Flyers, the Devils and the Flames who just won’t have any room to maneuver unless they shed salary. Does this mean the Sens should help them? No, but they should listen to what those teams are willing to dump. Who knows, it could be someone like Daniel Briere, a highly skilled player than would slide right into an Ottawa ‘rebuild’.

What Bryan Murray did yesterday is very admirable, he moved one of the most beloved figures attributed to the Senators - but Mike Fisher’s worth to the club on ice was much, much less than the memories that linger in fans heads. He moved a guy with a lot of miles on his body, who frankly was useless for long, long stretches and replaced him with the wonderful option of cap space and a 1st round pick- which can be used for a bevy of things. The cap space opened up can provide the Sens an opportunity to overspend on a real number one goalie - a Bryzgalov that we pay 6.5 X 4 (don’t worry, Lehner needs 2 more years in the AHL, then I want him to back up the new number one for two years), or Vokoun, or they investigate the market for goalies via trade. But one thing’s for certain, this is where Fisher’s money needs to go. Why? Because with the new crop of youngsters coming into the Sens lineup - and really, now’s the time, there will be astonishing mistakes. Rundblad and Cowen will likely be given big minutes to chew up, which will mean some excitement, but will also mean some big mistakes. If you hand Brian Elliott another chance, he’ll be eaten alive. If you promote Lehner too quickly, he’ll be eaten alive, so you go out and you do what you’ve only done once: bring in an elite level goalie who can cover up some of these mistakes as the team grows.

People call it a rebuild, the newspapers scream it, the callers into the Team 1200 are in 6s and 7s. I call it a wonderful opportunity to change some of the stagnant pieces of this team - and it all started with Mike Fisher.



Last edited by SpezDispenser on Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:20 am by PTFlea

Hoags wrote:Listening to Murray it sounds like a Philly style rebuild is in the works as he intends to be in contention sooner rather than later. Hard to say if that's just BM talking or that plan has Melnyk's blessing.

We don't have the means to land any big FA's nor do we have a Richards and Carter coming up in the system.

Murray will replace players he's moved by prospects and go after a FA goalie and I think that will be about it for next year.

What do you mean we don't have the means? We have the most means in the entire league, we're the one team who can move virtually anyone else out of the way with the amount of cap space we'll have + the ability to spend to the cap.

As for Richards and Carter, I say we have Cowen and Rundblad. So instead of spending gobs of $$ on D, we should be looking at forwards to acquire via either FA or via trade.

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:24 am by Cap'n Clutch

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Hoags wrote:Listening to Murray it sounds like a Philly style rebuild is in the works as he intends to be in contention sooner rather than later. Hard to say if that's just BM talking or that plan has Melnyk's blessing.

Spezza also said the same. He expects a turnaround by next season and mentions a re-load is on the way.

He didn't say that exactly. He said he hopes they bring in players with the cap money they'll have and it's hard to know the direction of the team right now.

Hoags

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:25 am by Hoags

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Spezza also said the same. He expects a turnaround by next season and mentions a re-load is on the way.

It'll depend on how many players Murray can ship out the door for sure.

Philly didn't really hit their stride til they hired Laviolette, we need to get rid of our John Stevens (CC).

SpezDispenser wrote:What do you mean we don't have the means? We have the most means in the entire league, we're the one team who can move virtually anyone else out of the way with the amount of cap space we'll have + the ability to spend to the cap.

As for Richards and Carter, I say we have Cowen and Rundblad. So instead of spending gobs of $$ on D, we should be looking at forwards to acquire via either FA or via trade.

We've only got 1 top-6 forward spot open for next year (Kovalev that will be replaced by Butler), unless Alfie will move down.

Defence - definately we've got promise, need to make room for them though.

Goaltending is the big issue.

I don't think we're going after big name free agents (good thing) nor are we spending to the cap.

Cap'n Clutch

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:27 am by Cap'n Clutch

Also having 2 rookie D men regardless how good does not a turn around make.

SeawaySensFan

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:45 am by SeawaySensFan

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
SeawaySensFan wrote:
Hoags wrote:Listening to Murray it sounds like a Philly style rebuild is in the works as he intends to be in contention sooner rather than later. Hard to say if that's just BM talking or that plan has Melnyk's blessing.

Spezza also said the same. He expects a turnaround by next season and mentions a re-load is on the way.

He didn't say that exactly. He said he hopes they bring in players with the cap money they'll have and it's hard to know the direction of the team right now.

I'm going by a quote from a sportsnet clip and I'm pretty sure he said exactly that. Although I could be wrong.

I think a lot of a potential turnaround will have to come from within since there are few UFAs, this year or even next that are particularly compelling. As I said in Cronie's Corner, I believe that some of the draft picks acquired will be used in trades this summer to round out the roster somewhat.

ddt

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:23 pm by ddt

SpezDispenser wrote:The Philly rebuild was done by one of the most aggressive GMs in the league. It was done with precision and with excellent, well-thought out moves.

For example:

The Flyers didn't really like their D, so they completely changed it. They were lucky enough to fleece Atlanta for Coburn, but then they went out and spend Nashville's 1st (IIRC) on Hartnell and Timonen. Hartnell's a top 6, grinding forward, Timonen's a top pairing D-man.

They had Richards + Carter coming into their own, so they went out while they were still under manageable contracts and got Daniel Briere - nothing lost on anyone in the hockey world there - they're insulating the young bucks by aggressively adding more skill to take the spotlight off them.

They went out and acquired a puck-mover when they needed another one in Matt Carle. They picked Giroux late in the first round, then they made their biggest, most aggressive move yet by acquiring Pronger to make sure their D was taken care of for the next 8-10 years.

They started out with Coburn, Richards and Carter, they ended up being a powerhouse because management let Holmgren made bold, big moves. Will Melnyk feel the same? We have a Richards and Carter - but on D in Rundblad and Cowen. We have Karlsson already contributing, soon we'll have a forward of elite level talent.

The question should be: Will Melnyk allow us to go the Flyers route? Will he allow the incoming GM to purchase a massive UFA or make a huge trade where the Sens take on millions and millions of dollars? Will he allow the new GM to spent whatever it takes on a goalie? You want a Philly-style turnaround, you make HUGE moves, you don't just sit there and wait for it to come to you.

And yet for all their moves, the Flyers didn't go anywhere, and weren't particularly a threat, until they acquired Pronger before last season.

PTFlea

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:27 pm by PTFlea

ddt wrote:
And yet for all their moves, the Flyers didn't go anywhere, and weren't particularly a threat, until they acquired Pronger before last season.

The got progressively better - and quickly.

ddt

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:35 pm by ddt

SpezDispenser wrote:
ddt wrote:
And yet for all their moves, the Flyers didn't go anywhere, and weren't particularly a threat, until they acquired Pronger before last season.

The got progressively better - and quickly.

Over 2-3 years, which is very different from what a lot of people around here are talking about. Remember when they got Brière, how fans wanted to lynch Holmgren after it looked to be a fiasco? How about Jason Smith? Joffrey Lupul (although he was later useful as a piece to get Pronger)? The Flyers also had pieces in the league already, as opposed to new guys coming in who we don't know yet how they'll do. We have two things right now, Spezza and Karlsson. That's it. I think people are romanticizing the whole thing, in order to give themselves hope that we'll be competitive next season. I would think the extra few years' wait would be a reasonable price to pay for getting it done right.

tim1_2

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:42 pm by tim1_2

There are SOOOOOO many variables in rebuilds, it's impossible to say we're doing it Philly style, Edmonton style, whatever. There's a big element of luck (i.e. some players work out, some don't, regardless of what scouting says), not to mention what is available on the FA/trade market each year.

I have no doubt Ottawa will do it's best to make it a quick rebuild, but it also depends on what players are available to us.

PTFlea

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:48 pm by PTFlea

ddt wrote:
Over 2-3 years, which is very different from what a lot of people around here are talking about. Remember when they got Brière, how fans wanted to lynch Holmgren after it looked to be a fiasco? How about Jason Smith? Joffrey Lupul (although he was later useful as a piece to get Pronger)? The Flyers also had pieces in the league already, as opposed to new guys coming in who we don't know yet how they'll do. We have two things right now, Spezza and Karlsson. That's it. I think people are romanticizing the whole thing, in order to give themselves hope that we'll be competitive next season. I would think the extra few years' wait would be a reasonable price to pay for getting it done right.

It's really hard to say what's gonna happen IMO. Spezza, Alfredsson, Michalek Karlsson, Foligno, Regin, Butler - I'd say there are 3 top 6 players in there and 2 fringe top six players who would be better served on line 3 (Regin/Foligno). It's not the bottom six we have to worry about with Smith, Winchester, Neil (if he stays), maybe one or two UFA cheap signings. The 2nd line is in shambles, do you let it go, or do you try to acquire one or two guys to help with that?

You bring in a Brad Richards, Briere, anyone with enough skill to insulate Spezza and Alfredsson and you're in the right direction IMO. What we didn't need was Fisher's relatively low offensive output + unbelievable hot and cold streaks - so that'll be the easiest piece to replace.

The D is where things could go really wrong for us. I assume Phillips won't be back, so that leaves Gonchar, Kuba, Karlsson, maybe Campoli, Carkner, Lee + rookie, rookie. That looks so bad, but it couldn't be worse than it is now, surely.

As for goaltending, this is Ottawa's biggest opportunity to get out there and get a real goalie. Pay what you need to pay, get some stability in net, and work your way up the lineup with the new coach/new system.

You might be surprised - IF the smart moves are made that is - how quickly we'll be competitive again. Look no farther than the Carolina Hurricanes.

PTFlea

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:49 pm by PTFlea

tim1_2 wrote:There are SOOOOOO many variables in rebuilds, it's impossible to say we're doing it Philly style, Edmonton style, whatever. There's a big element of luck (i.e. some players work out, some don't, regardless of what scouting says), not to mention what is available on the FA/trade market each year.

I have no doubt Ottawa will do it's best to make it a quick rebuild, but it also depends on what players are available to us.

Basically this exactly. We'll be aggressive, I'd be willing to bet on it. We're not going in with Regin/Foligno/Butler as our 2nd line, nor are we going in with Brian Elliott as our number one goaltender.

ddt

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:24 pm by ddt

SpezDispenser wrote:Basically this exactly. We'll be aggressive, I'd be willing to bet on it. We're not going in with Regin/Foligno/Butler as our 2nd line, nor are we going in with Brian Elliott as our number one goaltender.

We've gotten nothing but a steady diet of patch after patch for the last few years, so enough already. I want to build this team right, not bring in retreads and rejects. I don't trust Murray to bring in great pieces.

PTFlea

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:29 pm by PTFlea

ddt wrote:
We've gotten nothing but a steady diet of patch after patch for the last few years, so enough already. I want to build this team right, not bring in retreads and rejects. I don't trust Murray to bring in great pieces.

Who says it'll be Murray though?

I don't want cast-offs, I want expensive, good players that the original team can't afford (see Byfuglien, Versteeg, Barker (don't like him), Gagne, Erhoff). There's always one or two teams that sit and wait patiently until TEAM X really wants to sign PLAYER Y and gets seriously desperate to make it so. Like the Flyers who couldn't wait to sign Zherdev and acquire Meszaros - so much so that they traded Gagne for literally a bag of pucks. Erhoff went to Vancouver for 2 FAILED prospects, honest to God, how did Wilson keep his job after that?

Versteeg went primarily for Stalberg. Big Buff garnered a late 1st. It's definitely doable - that's why I'm saying it'll take tact and a GM with his ear to the ground. Downside is, it looks like we're competing with Toronto as they start to shed salary as well.

Riprock

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:31 pm by Riprock

I think you gotta use the guys you got in the system:

Mcihalek-Spezza-Butler
Foligno-Regin-Alfedsson
Smith-Winchester-Neil
Greening-O'Brien-Condra

for example

PTFlea

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:33 pm by PTFlea

Dash wrote:I think you gotta use the guys you got in the system:

Mcihalek-Spezza-Butler
Foligno-Regin-Alfedsson
Smith-Winchester-Neil
Greening-O'Brien-Condra

for example

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think there's one hell of a top 6 coming this summer. Not sure who moves out of the top 6 to make it happen, but I think it's gonna happen.

Riprock

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:37 pm by Riprock

Well, you can't keep holding down the young guys because you are signing FA's... something has to give.

PTFlea

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:46 pm by PTFlea

Dash wrote:Well, you can't keep holding down the young guys because you are signing FA's... something has to give.

I'm willing to allow for 2 of Butler/Regin/Foligno to make it into the top six, one of them needs to be a bottom 6 for this team while we bring in an NHL experienced goal scorer so we don't score 98 goals next year as well.

That's my opinion. If we don't, we'd better have one of the three Vezina nominees in net (we should anyway) because we're not gonna score very often. And, yes, a rebuild is a rebuild, but when you don't have many forward prospects, you need to accelerate it a little IMO.

Michalek - Spezza - SNIPER ACQUISITION
Alfredsson - Foligno - Alfredsson

Regin plays on line 3

Or switch it around with Foligno. Or Alfredsson for that matter. The point is, I'm not sure it's too much to ask to have a sniper brought in + an A1 goalie. I'm not asking for more than 2 major acquisitions - which should be fine considering how much money we're shedding right now.

ddt

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:46 pm by ddt

SpezDispenser wrote:
Dash wrote:I think you gotta use the guys you got in the system:

Mcihalek-Spezza-Butler
Foligno-Regin-Alfedsson
Smith-Winchester-Neil
Greening-O'Brien-Condra

for example

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think there's one hell of a top 6 coming this summer. Not sure who moves out of the top 6 to make it happen, but I think it's gonna happen.

It had better be one hell of a top 6 to transform us from the joke that we were this year. Even with a solid first line guy and Bryz/Vokoun, it would be a stretch.

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