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Does Fisher's trade signify a Rebuild?

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PTFlea


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Mike Fisher was always a big part of the Senators. As the years went on and we reached this nightmare place we’re in now, he became an even bigger part of the Senators - and not in a positive way. Fisher would go through major stretches of the year ice cold. Very few goals, very few points, oft injured, couldn’t initiate contact - basically useless out there. So, why keep him? That’s the question that has to be asked to people who have an emotional connection with him - or maybe it’s the question to ask anybody unhappy with this move.

Fisher averaged just under 20 minutes of ice time a night, he would get power-play time, penalty killing time, even strength time and yet the best he could do was 14 goals and 25 assists for 4.2 million is cap space and 4 million in actual salary (Fisher’s salary decreases to 3 million in his final year, making him much more attractive to a budget team like Nashville). Is anyone suggesting that Chris Kelly couldn’t do more with that amount of ice time/PP time etc.? And then if Kelly moves up, couldn’t Jesse Winchester take his place? Then couldn’t Zach Smith take his place on line 4? The answer is yes, yes and yes.

So the question remains: is this a rebuild move, or is this just a smart hockey decision? Get back an asset that you can use going forward, the Nashville 1st round pick. Use it to draft a big, scoring forward, or use it to get the player you want in the top 5, or use it to try to acquire some young, strong talent up front. Any way you slice it, it opens up money, a roster spot and a sense of ‘it’s not good enough’. And it’s not good enough - and that goes for Chris Phillips as well. As the former core of this team, we needed those guys to step up more than they ever have in their careers, instead, we hear of a bunch of guys who dislike another coach. Another coach? When does it cease to be coaches’ fault and start to be players’ fault? Right now.

Rebuild my foot, the Sens now have an admirable chunk of money to use when they see fit. Does that mean go out and spend it all in one swoop? No, of course not. It means you wait until the opportunity presents itself and you take cap dumps - much like Atlanta did to Chicago. You get good players and you simply take on cap dollars. It works and it happens a lot. There will be several teams, including the Flyers, the Devils and the Flames who just won’t have any room to maneuver unless they shed salary. Does this mean the Sens should help them? No, but they should listen to what those teams are willing to dump. Who knows, it could be someone like Daniel Briere, a highly skilled player than would slide right into an Ottawa ‘rebuild’.

What Bryan Murray did yesterday is very admirable, he moved one of the most beloved figures attributed to the Senators - but Mike Fisher’s worth to the club on ice was much, much less than the memories that linger in fans heads. He moved a guy with a lot of miles on his body, who frankly was useless for long, long stretches and replaced him with the wonderful option of cap space and a 1st round pick- which can be used for a bevy of things. The cap space opened up can provide the Sens an opportunity to overspend on a real number one goalie - a Bryzgalov that we pay 6.5 X 4 (don’t worry, Lehner needs 2 more years in the AHL, then I want him to back up the new number one for two years), or Vokoun, or they investigate the market for goalies via trade. But one thing’s for certain, this is where Fisher’s money needs to go. Why? Because with the new crop of youngsters coming into the Sens lineup - and really, now’s the time, there will be astonishing mistakes. Rundblad and Cowen will likely be given big minutes to chew up, which will mean some excitement, but will also mean some big mistakes. If you hand Brian Elliott another chance, he’ll be eaten alive. If you promote Lehner too quickly, he’ll be eaten alive, so you go out and you do what you’ve only done once: bring in an elite level goalie who can cover up some of these mistakes as the team grows.

People call it a rebuild, the newspapers scream it, the callers into the Team 1200 are in 6s and 7s. I call it a wonderful opportunity to change some of the stagnant pieces of this team - and it all started with Mike Fisher.



Last edited by SpezDispenser on Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:45 pm by Ev

SpezDispenser wrote:Glad to see most of us on the same page. The word rebuild gets tossed around *way* too much in regards to the Sens. Talk to me about rebuilding if Spezza + Alfie go, then we're up to our ears in rebuild. Right now, we have weapons up front in Spezza, Alfie, Michalek. Some nice, young guys who desperately need ice time: Foligno, Regin, Butler. A great bottom 6 IMO, spearheaded by Winchester, Neil, Z.Smith, Kelly. A veteran, All-Star puck-mover in Gonchar, a young, electriv D-man in Karlsson, Campoli who's stepping it up, nice depth in Carkner and Lee and a host of young bucks eager to come into Ottawa and claim a spot (Wiercioch, Rundblad, Cowen, Gryba etc.).

A few simple, smart moves and the Sens could be quite competitive next year. Call it addition by subtraction (I apologize to Phillips, Fisher, Ruutu, Kovalev, Kuba, Lecalire, but it is).

This is like the past summer with all this talk about "how good this team will be".

Murray makes 1 move to get rid of Fisher and now you're all denying that we need an almost complete overhaul. This team WILL NOT be competitive next year. We don't have the power up front or the goaltending for that to happen.

The word rebuild gets tossed around too much because it's true! This team is in desperate need of a rebuild! You were even saying that before the Fisher trade, SpezD!

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:12 pm by PTFlea

Big Ev wrote:
This is like the past summer with all this talk about "how good this team will be".

Murray makes 1 move to get rid of Fisher and now you're all denying that we need an almost complete overhaul. This team WILL NOT be competitive next year. We don't have the power up front or the goaltending for that to happen.

The word rebuild gets tossed around too much because it's true! This team is in desperate need of a rebuild! You were even saying that before the Fisher trade, SpezD!

We chatted about this very thing, you and I. I wanted to cut the 'sleepy' core away, that included Fisher, Phillips - and frankly I won't be crying if Alfie's included in there. These guys are tired and old, and we need to replace them with youth. It can't get any worse, we're rebuilding anyway, now I want to see a couple of smart moves - including an elite goalie - I never wavered from that - and I also never once wavered from getting a sniping winger. Those pieces combined with the young D-men coming in will make us a lot like the Hurricanes of LAST year, when they were a lot of fun to watch, but faded a little down the stretch to draft 7th overall.

I see the Sens following the same path as Carolina. Competitive next year, ultimately missing and getting a top 10 pick, then even more competitive the year after - like Carolina this year - having a chance at the post-season, then in year 3, we get a taste of the post-season. Then year 4 and 5 we begin to flex our competitive muscles and begin being contenders again.

That's how I see it.

EDIT: Although, I could see us being a little more competitive than what I just spelled out and possible get into 8th after next year.

shabbs

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:34 pm by shabbs

SpezDispenser wrote:the best he could do was 14 goals and 25 assists
In 2009/10 he had 25 goals and 28 assists for 53 points.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=1317&hubname=nhl-predators

Let's not sell him too short now. The body is not even cold yet...

Wink

SensGirl11

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:38 pm by SensGirl11

shabbs wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:the best he could do was 14 goals and 25 assists
In 2009/10 he had 25 goals and 28 assists for 53 points.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=1317&hubname=nhl-predators

Let's not sell him too short now. The body is not even cold yet...

Wink

Does Fisher's trade signify a Rebuild? - Page 2 270956

Nothing to see here...

PTFlea

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:39 pm by PTFlea

shabbs wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:the best he could do was 14 goals and 25 assists
In 2009/10 he had 25 goals and 28 assists for 53 points.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=1317&hubname=nhl-predators

Let's not sell him too short now. The body is not even cold yet...

Wink

He's a solid player - when healthy, but that seems to be getting more and more rare. I hope he's healthy and effective for the Preds because he's a really good guy and I mean him no disrespect. I'm just pleased that we're moving along and shedding some of the guys who we couldn't win with.

dennycrane

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:04 pm by dennycrane

Of course this indicates a rebuild will take place but they aren't finished tearing it down yet.

SensGirl11

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:15 pm by SensGirl11

I am absolutely stunned that we have not heard of Phillips being traded yet. I was convinced it would have been announced this morn.

SeawaySensFan

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:20 pm by SeawaySensFan

SensGirl11 wrote:I am absolutely stunned that we have not heard of Phillips being traded yet. I was convinced it would have been announced this morn.

Source?

PTFlea

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:21 pm by PTFlea

SensGirl11 wrote:I am absolutely stunned that we have not heard of Phillips being traded yet. I was convinced it would have been announced this morn.

Not until closer to the deadline IMO. Bidding war must heat up first.

SensGirl11

Post Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:26 pm by SensGirl11

SpezDispenser wrote:
SensGirl11 wrote:I am absolutely stunned that we have not heard of Phillips being traded yet. I was convinced it would have been announced this morn.

Not until closer to the deadline IMO. Bidding war must heat up first.

That's true, it might be best to wait in this situation..

Cap'n Clutch

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:28 am by Cap'n Clutch

I Philly style re-build is an ideal and not nearly as easy as people may think. I'd rather the team take a more cautious approach because the Sens are more likely to end up with a TML style re-build or a fiasco similar to this season with Kovalev and Gonchar types in the lineup.

spader

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:00 am by spader

Philly's rebuild could just as easily have fallen apart. They took some big risks that paid off, but could have been disastrous.

PTFlea

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:05 am by PTFlea

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I Philly style re-build is an ideal and not nearly as easy as people may think. I'd rather the team take a more cautious approach because the Sens are more likely to end up with a TML style re-build or a fiasco similar to this season with Kovalev and Gonchar types in the lineup.

The Philly rebuild was done by one of the most aggressive GMs in the league. It was done with precision and with excellent, well-thought out moves.

For example:

The Flyers didn't really like their D, so they completely changed it. They were lucky enough to fleece Atlanta for Coburn, but then they went out and spend Nashville's 1st (IIRC) on Hartnell and Timonen. Hartnell's a top 6, grinding forward, Timonen's a top pairing D-man.

They had Richards + Carter coming into their own, so they went out while they were still under manageable contracts and got Daniel Briere - nothing lost on anyone in the hockey world there - they're insulating the young bucks by aggressively adding more skill to take the spotlight off them.

They went out and acquired a puck-mover when they needed another one in Matt Carle. They picked Giroux late in the first round, then they made their biggest, most aggressive move yet by acquiring Pronger to make sure their D was taken care of for the next 8-10 years.

They started out with Coburn, Richards and Carter, they ended up being a powerhouse because management let Holmgren made bold, big moves. Will Melnyk feel the same? We have a Richards and Carter - but on D in Rundblad and Cowen. We have Karlsson already contributing, soon we'll have a forward of elite level talent.

The question should be: Will Melnyk allow us to go the Flyers route? Will he allow the incoming GM to purchase a massive UFA or make a huge trade where the Sens take on millions and millions of dollars? Will he allow the new GM to spent whatever it takes on a goalie? You want a Philly-style turnaround, you make HUGE moves, you don't just sit there and wait for it to come to you.

Hoags

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:14 am by Hoags

Listening to Murray it sounds like a Philly style rebuild is in the works as he intends to be in contention sooner rather than later. Hard to say if that's just BM talking or that plan has Melnyk's blessing.

We don't have the means to land any big FA's nor do we have a Richards and Carter coming up in the system.

Murray will replace players he's moved by prospects and go after a FA goalie and I think that will be about it for next year.

SeawaySensFan

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:17 am by SeawaySensFan

Hoags wrote:Listening to Murray it sounds like a Philly style rebuild is in the works as he intends to be in contention sooner rather than later. Hard to say if that's just BM talking or that plan has Melnyk's blessing.

Spezza also said the same. He expects a turnaround by next season and mentions a re-load is on the way.

PTFlea

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:20 am by PTFlea

Hoags wrote:Listening to Murray it sounds like a Philly style rebuild is in the works as he intends to be in contention sooner rather than later. Hard to say if that's just BM talking or that plan has Melnyk's blessing.

We don't have the means to land any big FA's nor do we have a Richards and Carter coming up in the system.

Murray will replace players he's moved by prospects and go after a FA goalie and I think that will be about it for next year.

What do you mean we don't have the means? We have the most means in the entire league, we're the one team who can move virtually anyone else out of the way with the amount of cap space we'll have + the ability to spend to the cap.

As for Richards and Carter, I say we have Cowen and Rundblad. So instead of spending gobs of $$ on D, we should be looking at forwards to acquire via either FA or via trade.

Cap'n Clutch

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:24 am by Cap'n Clutch

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Hoags wrote:Listening to Murray it sounds like a Philly style rebuild is in the works as he intends to be in contention sooner rather than later. Hard to say if that's just BM talking or that plan has Melnyk's blessing.

Spezza also said the same. He expects a turnaround by next season and mentions a re-load is on the way.

He didn't say that exactly. He said he hopes they bring in players with the cap money they'll have and it's hard to know the direction of the team right now.

Hoags

Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:25 am by Hoags

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Spezza also said the same. He expects a turnaround by next season and mentions a re-load is on the way.

It'll depend on how many players Murray can ship out the door for sure.

Philly didn't really hit their stride til they hired Laviolette, we need to get rid of our John Stevens (CC).

SpezDispenser wrote:What do you mean we don't have the means? We have the most means in the entire league, we're the one team who can move virtually anyone else out of the way with the amount of cap space we'll have + the ability to spend to the cap.

As for Richards and Carter, I say we have Cowen and Rundblad. So instead of spending gobs of $$ on D, we should be looking at forwards to acquire via either FA or via trade.

We've only got 1 top-6 forward spot open for next year (Kovalev that will be replaced by Butler), unless Alfie will move down.

Defence - definately we've got promise, need to make room for them though.

Goaltending is the big issue.

I don't think we're going after big name free agents (good thing) nor are we spending to the cap.

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