GDT: Penguins @ Senators, Dec. 26, 7:30 pm, SNET

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

hemlock wrote:
Btw, can someone ban this zeyan12 clown please.

Done.

What did I miss? Or was that in another thread?

It was in every thread.

Dresses for sale, really good prices too.

The best part of winning last night is that we will not look like buffoons on the 3rd installment of the HBO series.....

SpezDispenser wrote:It's true, Tarasenko looks awesome - but what Rundblad is doing is equally as exciting - if not much more so. I'll admit that if Tarasenko was Tarasson, he'd be a Sen right now, but the fact remains that Murray and co. don't want to take anymore Russians that high. And after the fiascos with Kaigordov and Zubov - not to mention the three or four Russian D-men that could have helped us so much, but stayed in Russia, I'm inclined to agree.

For years we (Muckler) were drafting Russians that, for the most part, did not amount to anything. The new "administration" is definitely on a Swedish kick now. Keep in mind, though, that E. Karlsson is the only one from that group that, so far, has worked out, with Lehner on the cusp. M. Karlsson went back to Sweden; Rundblad is still an unknown as far as I'm concerned -- he has *not* played an NHL-style game, much less an NHL game; Silfverberg is projected to be a two-way player, another Alfredsson -- well, sorry, the chances of *that* happening are almost as slim as the Sens retiring #19 for Yashin; Petersson has offensive flair (so did all those Russians we drafted).

Look, I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but some of the old threads that SS bumped recently should be a lesson. As fans we tend to over-emphasize positive updates (Winchester will play top-line with Spezza and Alfie -- we all got *soo* excited).

Point is, we had several top-end defensive prospects and were severely undermanned in the forward ranks, and Murray traded his 1st round pick for another defenseman. The only rationalization I have here is that Rundblad, having been a draft pick the year before, would be NHL-ready sooner than Tarasenko, and at that point we could move one of our D prospects for a forward prospect even better, or closer than Tarasenko. If that happens I'll be OK, but if Tarasenko breaks into the league and starts contributing in a meaningful way, and we are still looking for scoring up-front, I will not be a happy camper.

I'm like the CRTC when it comes to NHL teams. It's got to have significant Canadian content to be successful.

Number Twenty Nine wrote:The best part of winning last night is that we will not look like buffoons on the 3rd installment of the HBO series.....

I bet it will only get a small mention...

wprager wrote:



For years we (Muckler) were drafting Russians that, for the most part, did not amount to anything. The new "administration" is definitely on a Swedish kick now. Keep in mind, though, that E. Karlsson is the only one from that group that, so far, has worked out, with Lehner on the cusp. M. Karlsson went back to Sweden; Rundblad is still an unknown as far as I'm concerned -- he has *not* played an NHL-style game, much less an NHL game; Silfverberg is projected to be a two-way player, another Alfredsson -- well, sorry, the chances of *that* happening are almost as slim as the Sens retiring #19 for Yashin; Petersson has offensive flair (so did all those Russians we drafted).

Look, I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but some of the old threads that SS bumped recently should be a lesson. As fans we tend to over-emphasize positive updates (Winchester will play top-line with Spezza and Alfie -- we all got *soo* excited).

Point is, we had several top-end defensive prospects and were severely undermanned in the forward ranks, and Murray traded his 1st round pick for another defenseman. The only rationalization I have here is that Rundblad, having been a draft pick the year before, would be NHL-ready sooner than Tarasenko, and at that point we could move one of our D prospects for a forward prospect even better, or closer than Tarasenko. If that happens I'll be OK, but if Tarasenko breaks into the league and starts contributing in a meaningful way, and we are still looking for scoring up-front, I will not be a happy camper.

Sure, there's risk involved. I think one of the deciding factors was that Forsberg was so unbelievably sold on Rundblad and the Sens knew he would be coaching him in the SEL this year. Had that not been the case, I think the Sens would have traded down a pick or two and taken Beau Bennett (sp). For M.Karlsson, he simply wasn't good enough to take the time to try to carve out a career in the pros in NA, he went back to Sweden because the Sens weren't committed to him - that's fine. Kaigordov and Zubov bolted at the first sign of things not being handed to them and I hated that.

Silfverberg's offence is starting to come around in the SEL, but the next Alfie only in the theory that Alfie is a 2-way player, that's pretty much where that ends. I think he'll be a nice NHL, but he's got at least another year to go before he's anywhere near ready as he has to adapt to the NHL size rinks. If I was to guess, I'd say that Silf has the potential to be a relatively quiet 20 goal guy who kills penalties and is responsible in his own zone.

As for Lehner, patience is the key here. This year is *close* to a write off developmentally for him. He gets called to the NHL, sees a tiny sample of action and is returned to the AHL where he has no chance at playing regularly because Brust is making cause for being in the All-Star Game. Then he goes to the WJC, plays a decent game, but gets hurt.

He needs time to play - and he needs it soon. If Bingo is winning with Brust, then send him to the ECHL and then have him in Bingo next year and the year after. This is a huge prospect - one of the 7 or 8 best G prospects in the world IMO, but he's suffered a slight setback in development this year IMO.

Petersson was a low pick, high reward/low risk. We'll see what he does when he finally gets to the AHL - which should be like....tomorrow IMO, but probably next season.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:It's true, Tarasenko looks awesome - but what Rundblad is doing is equally as exciting - if not much more so. I'll admit that if Tarasenko was Tarasson, he'd be a Sen right now, but the fact remains that Murray and co. don't want to take anymore Russians that high. And after the fiascos with Kaigordov and Zubov - not to mention the three or four Russian D-men that could have helped us so much, but stayed in Russia, I'm inclined to agree.

For years we (Muckler) were drafting Russians that, for the most part, did not amount to anything. The new "administration" is definitely on a Swedish kick now. Keep in mind, though, that E. Karlsson is the only one from that group that, so far, has worked out, with Lehner on the cusp. M. Karlsson went back to Sweden; Rundblad is still an unknown as far as I'm concerned -- he has *not* played an NHL-style game, much less an NHL game; Silfverberg is projected to be a two-way player, another Alfredsson -- well, sorry, the chances of *that* happening are almost as slim as the Sens retiring #19 for Yashin; Petersson has offensive flair (so did all those Russians we drafted).

Look, I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but some of the old threads that SS bumped recently should be a lesson. As fans we tend to over-emphasize positive updates (Winchester will play top-line with Spezza and Alfie -- we all got *soo* excited).

Point is, we had several top-end defensive prospects and were severely undermanned in the forward ranks, and Murray traded his 1st round pick for another defenseman. The only rationalization I have here is that Rundblad, having been a draft pick the year before, would be NHL-ready sooner than Tarasenko, and at that point we could move one of our D prospects for a forward prospect even better, or closer than Tarasenko. If that happens I'll be OK, but if Tarasenko breaks into the league and starts contributing in a meaningful way, and we are still looking for scoring up-front, I will not be a happy camper.

The EK pick having "worked out" is a huge understatement. At the end of the day, it's possible we look back on that selection and identify it as our best pick of the decade.

Mattias Karlsson was taken in 2003.

Lehner, Petersson, Silfverberg and Rundblad are all unknowns at the NHL level (although Lehner's looked good in pre-season and in actual NHL gameplay) but, um, so is Tarasenko and indeed pretty much every prospect. And all four have played/will play in the WJCs, so I don't think that's a feather in VT's cap over them. Unless you think the KHL is "NHL-style."

Also, Silfverberg to Alfie is not a great comparison. He'll be in the NHL, probably either as a second or third liner, he'll play well at both ends of the ice, he'll never take a shift off, and he'll probably score a number of ugly goals a la Hornqvist (not that he's necessarily Hornqvist either). Not a star, but a valuable player and the type of guy we historically have lacked, IMO. Great net presence.

I wanted Tarasenko as badly as any of you and I was screaming at my TV for the Sens to pick him when the Sens were up. But the truth is: A) he hasn't yet shown anything at the NHL level even if he's looked good at the WJCs; B) he's a flight risk. And it's not even necessarily a case of them never coming over - he could come over, find some adversity or even have success, and head back to Russia. Radulov was a 60 point guy in the NHL before going to the KHL. I don't think Tarasenko will leave, because I think his style of play is suited to the NHL, but I also think Murray would have a better idea of him and his character than I do.

I don't think there's an emphasis on drafting Swedes - although there is less risk - but I think the Sens' staff realize how great a scout Forsberg is and trust his opinions, because every team wants any advantage they can get. And it's paid off: had we not moved up to 15th we could be sitting here talking about Chet Pickard's play in the AHL instead of how Karlsson is leading our team in scoring.

Radulov left only because he signed the KHL contract days before an agreement before the NHL and KHL agreement.

Russians can't flee if they're signed to an NHL contract.

From what I hear, most of them don't seem to want to play over there. Been all sorts of horror stories about the KHL, unless you're terribly homesick or can't make it in the NHL no reason to play there.

As for Tarasenko I wanted him as well, if only because we're thin on forwards. Rundblad looks good so far but we're so stacked on defencemen, can't help but when/if he'll ever play here. I'm thinking Cowen comes over next year.

Hoags wrote:Radulov left only because he signed the KHL contract days before an agreement before the NHL and KHL agreement.

Russians can't flee if they're signed to an NHL contract.

From what I hear, most of them don't seem to want to play over there. Been all sorts of horror stories about the KHL, unless you're terribly homesick or can't make it in the NHL no reason to play there.

As for Tarasenko I wanted him as well, if only because we're thin on forwards. Rundblad looks good so far but we're so stacked on defencemen, can't help but when/if he'll ever play here. I'm thinking Cowen comes over next year.

Radulov had a contract with Nashville and he broke it to play in Russia. Plus, being homesick is a huge reason for defection - as is not being able to make the NHL as quickly as they'd 'like'.

That said, I think Tarasenko is a nice pick for St.Louis because they already had Cole, EJohnson, Pieterangelo (sp) and need forwards badly.

Just to set something straight -- I am not pining for Tarasenko. All I'm saying is that we had a number of high-end D prospects and couldn't score goals (EK leading the team is saying something, isn't it) and yet Murray went for another D. Kind of like the Habs picking Price when they had Theodore with some hardware from the year-end awards. I don't think they knew, at the time, that Theodore would drop off as much as he did with the changes to equipment and rules, and when they took away his "hair" medicine.

Anyhow, if Rundblad is the BPA you take him because you can always use that D depth to trade for a forward. And if Rundblad is in the league before Tarasenko that would mean we can make hat trade sooner.

All that said, if we trade one of our D prospects for a forward prospect that's further down the pipeline than Tarasenko, then the second-guessing will be back on.

For now, it was an interesting choice, a bit unexpected (counter-intuitive, too), but so was trading up to grab a 5'9" 160 lb defenseman.

Yeah, the trade at the time was a pretty big shock to me personally.

Tarasenko is NHL ready right now according to most scouts/experts, and he will have a great shot at making the team next year. Rundblad will as well, but I could see them putting him in the AHL. So really, I think they are both equal in terms of readiness.

It's just frustrating that they don't pick him when they had bad experiences with less skilled players like Zubov, Kaigorodov, and Nikulin. Tarasenko is a HELL of alot better than those guys and he won't waste his talents in the joke of a league that is the KHL, I think.

I'm also not going to just say that WE made a bad decision not picking him. So did most teams before our pick. Especially NYR.

Big Ev wrote:Tarasenko is NHL ready right now according to most scouts/experts, and he will have a great shot at making the team next year. Rundblad will as well, but I could see them putting him in the AHL. So really, I think they are both equal in terms of readiness.

It's just frustrating that they don't pick him when they had bad experiences with less skilled players like Zubov, Kaigorodov, and Nikulin. Tarasenko is a HELL of alot better than those guys and he won't waste his talents in the joke of a league that is the KHL, I think.

I'm also not going to just say that WE made a bad decision not picking him. So did most teams before our pick. Especially NYR.

Yeah, it's impossible to say if Ottawa did the right thing or not right now. I would say yes personally because I've already been teased with Rundblad being a bigger version of Karlsson. And if that's true - and that includes most of the hockey IQ hopefully - then I'm okay with it. Tarasenko would look nice as a Sens prospect right now, there's no debate there.

Why would the Rangers not take him? Or LA for that matter.

They really need HD cameras *everywhere* in the rink. Although this is conclusive to me, it would be more conclusive with better detail in the overhead cam. Or, even better, install pinhead cameras inside the tube that makes up the corssbar/posts, in each top-corner, pointing toward the opposite bottom corner.

How the hell was that not a goal?

SpezDispenser wrote:How the hell was that not a goal?

Yeah, especially since the angle of view (camera is offset from the crossbar toward the center of the goal) would make it appear closer to the goal line that it really is. But without a clear view of where the puck is and where the goal line is, they can't make the right call. A higher-res camera would definitely help, but the mesh gets in the way, for sure. A pinhole camera built right into the corner of the crossbar/post would give you a wonderful picture -- it could be a (relatively) cheap camera, and at that distance it would probably give you as good a shot as a HD camera in the rafters, without the mesh screwing it up, and with no angle-of-view issues either.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Tarasenko is NHL ready right now according to most scouts/experts, and he will have a great shot at making the team next year. Rundblad will as well, but I could see them putting him in the AHL. So really, I think they are both equal in terms of readiness.

It's just frustrating that they don't pick him when they had bad experiences with less skilled players like Zubov, Kaigorodov, and Nikulin. Tarasenko is a HELL of alot better than those guys and he won't waste his talents in the joke of a league that is the KHL, I think.

I'm also not going to just say that WE made a bad decision not picking him. So did most teams before our pick. Especially NYR.

Yeah, it's impossible to say if Ottawa did the right thing or not right now. I would say yes personally because I've already been teased with Rundblad being a bigger version of Karlsson. And if that's true - and that includes most of the hockey IQ hopefully - then I'm okay with it. Tarasenko would look nice as a Sens prospect right now, there's no debate there.

Why would the Rangers not take him? Or LA for that matter.

But the thing is, do we need another Karlsson? It's nice to have but I don't know if it's completely necessary. Look around the league, you don't see a lot of teams with 2 elite point producers on the back end. You need a balanced lineup with power up front and on defense. I think we would have been fine with Cowen-Karlsson + everyone else.

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Tarasenko is NHL ready right now according to most scouts/experts, and he will have a great shot at making the team next year. Rundblad will as well, but I could see them putting him in the AHL. So really, I think they are both equal in terms of readiness.

It's just frustrating that they don't pick him when they had bad experiences with less skilled players like Zubov, Kaigorodov, and Nikulin. Tarasenko is a HELL of alot better than those guys and he won't waste his talents in the joke of a league that is the KHL, I think.

I'm also not going to just say that WE made a bad decision not picking him. So did most teams before our pick. Especially NYR.

Yeah, it's impossible to say if Ottawa did the right thing or not right now. I would say yes personally because I've already been teased with Rundblad being a bigger version of Karlsson. And if that's true - and that includes most of the hockey IQ hopefully - then I'm okay with it. Tarasenko would look nice as a Sens prospect right now, there's no debate there.

Why would the Rangers not take him? Or LA for that matter.

But the thing is, do we need another Karlsson? It's nice to have but I don't know if it's completely necessary. Look around the league, you don't see a lot of teams with 2 elite point producers on the back end. You need a balanced lineup with power up front and on defense. I think we would have been fine with Cowen-Karlsson + everyone else.

Co-sign.

We haven't had a blue chip offensive prospect since the 2001 draft. That's a decade for god sakes. This team is going to get worse offensively before it gets better (Alfie retiring etc), and that's a scary, scary thought.