Elliott or Leclaire - Who's Number 1?

I'm not the least bit concerned. I think they'll be fine. I'm more worried about Gonchar/Kuba and their ability to stay healthy. I still think their over/under on games played is at 100.

Michallica wrote:There are more votes for Pat Buchanan than there are for elliott

Despite the crap job on Saturday, Leclaire did come up big in the third. And Elliott looked razor sharp in the first period against the rangers. They both obviously have the tools but this inconsistency is just too much already.

Are you suggesting we play Elliott in the first and then bring in Leclaire in relief in the third? Who plays the middle frame?

SpezDispenser wrote:

shabbs wrote:Vokoun's in the last year of his contract too... chances are he'll get moved at the deadline. Do you really see us acquiring him and signing him?

I dunno...I like Patrick Wiercioch a lot - and that would be the price + +.

Goalies about to become UFA go for 4th round picks or similar. No need to give up Wiercioch.

I think Elliott will be fine, but I don't trust Leclaire at all.

Watched highlights of last year's playoffs and saw him handing out rebounds like Halloween candy and flopping around the crease as pucks slide under him.

But goaltending is the team's biggest weakness imo, no surprise it's a hot topic in Ottawa.

Kind of wish Cowen or one of the other kids made the team, there'd be something new to talk about. Karlsson-watch was interesting last year.

wprager wrote:

Michallica wrote:There are more votes for Pat Buchanan than there are for elliott

Despite the crap job on Saturday, Leclaire did come up big in the third. And Elliott looked razor sharp in the first period against the rangers. They both obviously have the tools but this inconsistency is just too much already.

Are you suggesting we play Elliott in the first and then bring in Leclaire in relief in the third? Who plays the middle frame?

I hear Wellwood is available

wprager wrote:Is Pat Buchanon a free agent or do we have to give something up for him?

2 firsts and a second probably

marakh wrote:Wow, are you guys really panicking before the drop of the puck?

I think its more of a remark than an¥thing. We all just acknowledge that our goaltending so far hasn't shown the promise we hoped for. If the plays of d-men and forwards can be judged in pre-season and rewarded with important roles on the team, its safe to at least predict what may happen with our 'tending at season's start.

Of course it was just pre-season. But its a legitimate concern. Everyone I think knows that its going to take a few games to see who's number one.

Btw, I remember last season after opening game loss to NYR....now that was some panic! What the hell were people thinking with that? hopefully none of that this year if the sens lose the opener

shabbs wrote:Vokoun's in the last year of his contract too... chances are he'll get moved at the deadline. Do you really see us acquiring him and signing him?

I said "book it" so yeah.

wprager wrote:Goalies about to become UFA go for 4th round picks or similar. No need to give up Wiercioch.

Uh...no chance.

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Goalies about to become UFA go for 4th round picks or similar. No need to give up Wiercioch.

Uh...no chance.

It's really hard to say, since I can't really think of a precedent. Usually you need solid goaltending to make the playoffs, so people don't really trade for goalies. But I did some research anyway and came up with Martin Biron and Dwayne Roloson.

Biron was going to become an UFA, but had just lost his job to Miller when Buffalo traded him to the Flyers. He was still seen as a number 1 goalie, and was treated like it when he got there, and for the subsequent 2 years he was in Philly. The Flyers acquired Biron for a 2nd round draft choice in that year's draft. The deal took place during on the day of the trade deadline. Subsequently, Biron signed a 2 year extension with the Flyers. Biron was 29 and 1/2 years old.

In Roloson's case, he was also about to become an UFA when Minnie traded him to Edmonton. Roloson had been battling in a two goalie system against Manny Fernandez, but was still seen as a more than capable number 1 goalie. Edmonton, in order to get Roloson, traded a 1st rounder and a conditional 3rd rounder. He then lead them to the stanley cup finals, and re-signed there for 3 years. This deal took place the day before the deadline, and Roloson was 36 and a 1/2 years old.

These two cases were a few years back, and prices change yearly. But it's still an interesting case.

Bass Destruction wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Goalies about to become UFA go for 4th round picks or similar. No need to give up Wiercioch.

Uh...no chance.

It's really hard to say, since I can't really think of a precedent. Usually you need solid goaltending to make the playoffs, so people don't really trade for goalies. But I did some research anyway and came up with Martin Biron and Dwayne Roloson.

Biron was going to become an UFA, but had just lost his job to Miller when Buffalo traded him to the Flyers. He was still seen as a number 1 goalie, and was treated like it when he got there, and for the subsequent 2 years he was in Philly. The Flyers acquired Biron for a 2nd round draft choice in that year's draft. The deal took place during on the day of the trade deadline. Subsequently, Biron signed a 2 year extension with the Flyers. Biron was 29 and 1/2 years old.

In Roloson's case, he was also about to become an UFA when Minnie traded him to Edmonton. Roloson had been battling in a two goalie system against Manny Fernandez, but was still seen as a more than capable number 1 goalie. Edmonton, in order to get Roloson, traded a 1st rounder and a conditional 3rd rounder. He then lead them to the stanley cup finals, and re-signed there for 3 years. This deal took place the day before the deadline, and Roloson was 36 and a 1/2 years old.

These two cases were a few years back, and prices change yearly. But it's still an interesting case.

Look more recently, the goalie market is as scarce as its ever been. Teams are rolling the dice on in house personnel more than ever. Halak fetched a price (some would argue it) but he was coming off an astronomical performance, was young and was a RFA. I don't think anyone will pay for a FA goalie like they used to simply because the difference between a Vezina winning goaltender and a middle of the league starter is roughly a 10-16 goal difference (calculated through save percentage and goals against average).

You can cover that spread with a forward or by upgrading a defensive position (where the most money per player is spent).

we should have got Niemi and waived LePoop

Number Twenty Nine wrote:we should have got Niemi and waived LePoop

Not a fan of Niemi personally.

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Goalies about to become UFA go for 4th round picks or similar. No need to give up Wiercioch.

Uh...no chance.

Source?

Seriously, why do you say no chance? Come up with a counter example -- a recent one -- where a UFA goalie fetched a better return than Wiercioch -- who is a 7.5, I believe.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Goalies about to become UFA go for 4th round picks or similar. No need to give up Wiercioch.

Uh...no chance.

Source?

Seriously, why do you say no chance? Come up with a counter example -- a recent one -- where a UFA goalie fetched a better return than Wiercioch -- who is a 7.5, I believe.

When was the last time a real NHL goalie was traded at the deadline? I can't even think of an example from recent history.

Halak isn't a comparable at all -- RFA without a contract, trade made during the off-season, etc., etc. Huet to WAS is the closest thing. Biron to PHI, too, I guess. Neither of those guys is anywhere near the goalie Vokoun is.

I have to think trading a guy like Vokoun -- given that he's healthy and playing like he has over the last few years -- would bring in a return akin to Hossa or Kovalchuk. Maybe a tad less.

Timing is everything. You pay more for a guy when he adds substantially to your team for a cup run.

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Goalies about to become UFA go for 4th round picks or similar. No need to give up Wiercioch.

Uh...no chance.

Source?

Seriously, why do you say no chance? Come up with a counter example -- a recent one -- where a UFA goalie fetched a better return than Wiercioch -- who is a 7.5, I believe.

When was the last time a real NHL goalie was traded at the deadline? I can't even think of an example from recent history.

Halak isn't a comparable at all -- RFA without a contract, trade made during the off-season, etc., etc. Huet to WAS is the closest thing. Biron to PHI, too, I guess. Neither of those guys is anywhere near the goalie Vokoun is.

I have to think trading a guy like Vokoun -- given that he's healthy and playing like he has over the last few years -- would bring in a return akin to Hossa or Kovalchuk. Maybe a tad less.

Timing is everything. You pay more for a guy when he adds substantially to your team for a cup run.

I usually agree with you, but this is waaaay off base.

PKC wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Goalies about to become UFA go for 4th round picks or similar. No need to give up Wiercioch.

Uh...no chance.

Source?

Seriously, why do you say no chance? Come up with a counter example -- a recent one -- where a UFA goalie fetched a better return than Wiercioch -- who is a 7.5, I believe.

When was the last time a real NHL goalie was traded at the deadline? I can't even think of an example from recent history.

Halak isn't a comparable at all -- RFA without a contract, trade made during the off-season, etc., etc. Huet to WAS is the closest thing. Biron to PHI, too, I guess. Neither of those guys is anywhere near the goalie Vokoun is.

I have to think trading a guy like Vokoun -- given that he's healthy and playing like he has over the last few years -- would bring in a return akin to Hossa or Kovalchuk. Maybe a tad less.

Timing is everything. You pay more for a guy when he adds substantially to your team for a cup run.

I usually agree with you, but this is waaaay off base.

Time will tell, I guess. We don't have anything to go on -- and, no, FA and off-season deals don't count. A real, coveted #1 goalie hasn't been traded at the deadline since the lockout, at least as far as I remember.

I think a real goalie, like a real forward or real defencemen, would bring in a substantial return at the deadline. Anywhere between what, say, Guerin or Tkachuk or Campbell brought in, up to what, say, Hossa or Kovalchuk brought in.

Even Biron and Huet brought in 2nd rounders at the deadline. If you ask me, Vokoun is 1st+ or high prospect territory for sure, if he stays healthy and plays like he has the last few years.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Goalies about to become UFA go for 4th round picks or similar. No need to give up Wiercioch.

Uh...no chance.

Source?

Seriously, why do you say no chance? Come up with a counter example -- a recent one -- where a UFA goalie fetched a better return than Wiercioch -- who is a 7.5, I believe.

When was the last time there was one of the 10 best goalie in the league available to the highest bidder - with teams like Ottawa, Philly, maybe Montreal, SJ (I think they're about to get rudely awakened) needing goaltending - bad.

I think this is what's gonna happen around...January:

To Philadelphia:
Tomas Vokoun (with an extension of 5 X 4)

To Florida:
Jeff Carter

If not, Vokoun will garner a 1st round pick and a top 6 forward or top 4 D prospect IMO.