Ottawa Senators off-season talk

If Spezza moves, it wont be to a team resembling any kind of contender and I would venture a guess that Spezza becomes a very irrelivant player where ever he lands.

I would say St.Louis, Atlanta, Columbus, Florida, Edmonton, Minny and NYR are possibilities. He would obviously be relivant in NY.

Starting fresh and putting up 100 points in a new destination will make him relevant, no matter where he ends up.

stempniaksen wrote:Starting fresh and putting up 100 points in a new destination will make him relevant, no matter where he ends up.

Little too much credit there. Doing something he has never done in his career with less tallent? Dont think so. He may hit 90 but Spezza wont be hitting 100 points anywhere except maybe on a top tier team, which wont happen if he's dealt.

stempniaksen wrote:

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:So let me get this straight.

Dany Heatley coming off a couple 50 goal years being considered one of the elite scorers on the game can only garner a top-six forward + a 2nd round pick + a salary dump

Yet, people think that Spezza is gonna return Horton AND Weiss?
If we're dealing with Florida I bet the deal looks a lot more like this:
Horton + Olesz/Allen + 3rd

Are people still so quick to pull the trigger then?

NTC. Spezza doesnt have one. That's a huge difference.

Anyways, I think it would have to be more like Foligno and Spezza for Horton and Weiss, something along those lines. Heatley would only go to SJ and Murray still somehow got Michalek (the best player in the deal).

Heatley without a NTC still only would have garnered Penner, Cogliano and Smid.
Obviously we'll see what happens in regards to Spezza, but I'm gonna prepare for the worst. I just don't see a team that fits when it comes to taking on a 7 million dollar center, no matter how good he is.

In Murray I trust I guess, but I'm not thrilled with the prospects of life without Spezza.

no way that was the best package for heatley. i assume there was a misunderstanding where Bm thought heatley would go to EDM. i think if he had the chance to talk to all 19 teams it would of been quite a different story.

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:Starting fresh and putting up 100 points in a new destination will make him relevant, no matter where he ends up.

Little too much credit there. Doing something he has never done in his career with less tallent? Dont think so. He may hit 90 but Spezza wont be hitting 100 points anywhere except maybe on a top tier team, which wont happen if he's dealt.

If he goes to Columbus with Nash, Voracek and Filatov surrounding him? Or to a team like Edmonton who will have Hemsky, Hall, Eberle and MPS? Please tell me how Spezza will get by without Nick Foligno and Peter Regin holding his hand and helping him through.

Did you ever stop to consider that other teams might actually have more talent than the Senators do up front? Listen I like Regin and co as much as the next guy, but Spezza is the straw that stirs the drink up front and whether he's in Ottawa, Columbus or Edmonton the guy will put up points.

Yes saying he would hit 100 is maybe a little far fetched, but you know what, it might not be with the amount of talent this guy has.

People know my view on this so I'm not gonna keep ramming it down their throats, but this move has the potential to be one of the worst moves in franchise history. right up there with drafting Daigle and letting Chara walk.

stempniaksen wrote:

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:Starting fresh and putting up 100 points in a new destination will make him relevant, no matter where he ends up.

Little too much credit there. Doing something he has never done in his career with less tallent? Dont think so. He may hit 90 but Spezza wont be hitting 100 points anywhere except maybe on a top tier team, which wont happen if he's dealt.

If he goes to Columbus with Nash, Voracek and Filatov surrounding him? Or to a team like Edmonton who will have Hemsky, Hall, Eberle and MPS? Please tell me how Spezza will get by without Nick Foligno and Peter Regin holding his hand and helping him through.

Did you ever stop to consider that other teams might actually have more talent than the Senators do up front? Listen I like Regin and co as much as the next guy, but Spezza is the straw that stirs the drink up front and whether he's in Ottawa, Columbus or Edmonton the guy will put up points.

Yes saying he would hit 100 is maybe a little far fetched, but you know what, it might not be with the amount of talent this guy has.

People know my view on this so I'm not gonna keep ramming it down their throats, but this move has the potential to be one of the worst moves in franchise history. right up there with drafting Daigle and letting Chara walk.

i agree but it always depends on the return you for him....
i'm on the fence with spezza. i can live with his problems but it be foolish not to look at all the options

stempniaksen wrote:

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:Starting fresh and putting up 100 points in a new destination will make him relevant, no matter where he ends up.

Little too much credit there. Doing something he has never done in his career with less tallent? Dont think so. He may hit 90 but Spezza wont be hitting 100 points anywhere except maybe on a top tier team, which wont happen if he's dealt.

If he goes to Columbus with Nash, Voracek and Filatov surrounding him? Or to a team like Edmonton who will have Hemsky, Hall, Eberle and MPS? Please tell me how Spezza will get by without Nick Foligno and Peter Regin holding his hand and helping him through.

Did you ever stop to consider that other teams might actually have more talent than the Senators do up front? Listen I like Regin and co as much as the next guy, but Spezza is the straw that stirs the drink up front and whether he's in Ottawa, Columbus or Edmonton the guy will put up points.

Yes saying he would hit 100 is maybe a little far fetched, but you know what, it might not be with the amount of talent this guy has.

People know my view on this so I'm not gonna keep ramming it down their throats, but this move has the potential to be one of the worst moves in franchise history. right up there with drafting Daigle and letting Chara walk.

Spezza has no shot of hitting 100 points in Ottawa now, Im talking about when he had Heatley and Alfi by his side, he never did it. Yeah, he might have been on pace for that but that was also on arguably the best regular season team in the league. There is no shot Spezza goes to a place with a complete defence and two 40 goal guys on his wing, none. I get you like Spezza but you have to be more objective then that.

Between his injuries, his inconsistancy, and the fact he needs an all star winger (maybe 2) to really produce a PPG clip consistantly, saying he will hit 100 points is pretty tough to swallow.

Anyways, if Spezza does get traded and doesnt change his game, he will be eaten alive in The West. At some point he is going to have to look in the mirror because he has basically blammed the fans this time around. It's on him and only him be it in Ottawa or any place else.

hemlock wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

sens4win wrote:

N4L wrote:The nice thing about this is Spezza has absolutely no say where he goes.

this has nothing to do with your post but, i was reading a thread a long time ago and didn't you use to be a really big spezza fan.

You're probably misremembering N4L for me. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm a recovering Spezza supporter.

Isn't admitting fault the step the first step to recovery? Or is it accepting that there is a higher power?

I always get the 12 steps confused.

Hard to tell what your point is here. Either you're suggesting that my change of opinion on Spezza is akin to a religious experience, which you think silly, or you think I'm a closet Spezza fan, which you think ironic.

Anyway, all I can say is that its extremely facile to think that having different opinions because of experience and the passage of time is a sure sign of a lack of mental fortitude. Contrary to popular belief, holding on to old, dead opinions is not a strength; it's a crippling weakness. If you think the same thing at 40 that you did at 10 or 20, you're either an idiot or you haven't experienced anything. Time and experience aught to change you; if it doesn't, you're a victim, not a hero.

stempniaksen wrote:So let me get this straight.

Dany Heatley coming off a couple 50 goal years being considered one of the elite scorers on the game can only garner a top-six forward + a 2nd round pick + a salary dump

Yet, people think that Spezza is gonna return Horton AND Weiss?
If we're dealing with Florida I bet the deal looks a lot more like this:
Horton + Olesz/Allen + 3rd

Are people still so quick to pull the trigger then?

You're eliding a key difference: Heatley held a NTC at the time and had his trade demand made public.

None of that can be said of Spezza right now: his NTC doesn't kick in until July 1st and his trade demand (if he even made it) hasn't been made public.

Apples and oranges.

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:Starting fresh and putting up 100 points in a new destination will make him relevant, no matter where he ends up.

Little too much credit there. Doing something he has never done in his career with less tallent? Dont think so. He may hit 90 but Spezza wont be hitting 100 points anywhere except maybe on a top tier team, which wont happen if he's dealt.

If he goes to Columbus with Nash, Voracek and Filatov surrounding him? Or to a team like Edmonton who will have Hemsky, Hall, Eberle and MPS? Please tell me how Spezza will get by without Nick Foligno and Peter Regin holding his hand and helping him through.

Did you ever stop to consider that other teams might actually have more talent than the Senators do up front? Listen I like Regin and co as much as the next guy, but Spezza is the straw that stirs the drink up front and whether he's in Ottawa, Columbus or Edmonton the guy will put up points.

Yes saying he would hit 100 is maybe a little far fetched, but you know what, it might not be with the amount of talent this guy has.

People know my view on this so I'm not gonna keep ramming it down their throats, but this move has the potential to be one of the worst moves in franchise history. right up there with drafting Daigle and letting Chara walk.

Spezza has no shot of hitting 100 points in Ottawa now, Im talking about when he had Heatley and Alfi by his side, he never did it. Yeah, he might have been on pace for that but that was also on arguably the best regular season team in the league. There is no shot Spezza goes to a place with a complete defence and two 40 goal guys on his wing, none. I get you like Spezza but you have to be more objective then that.

Between his injuries, his inconsistancy, and the fact he needs an all star winger (maybe 2) to really produce a PPG clip consistantly, saying he will hit 100 points is pretty tough to swallow.

Anyways, if Spezza does get traded and doesnt change his game, he will be eaten alive in The West. At some point he is going to have to look in the mirror because he has basically blammed the fans this time around. It's on him and only him be it in Ottawa or any place else.

1) Agreed, Spezza won't hit 100 in Ottawa anytime soon.

2) C'mon, you know me enough to be objective. But you have to admit put into a situation where he has free reign with Rick Nash on his wing he has a shot. Although I agree he will never be a 2way player hitting 100 points.

3) You make it sound like I bet my life on him scoring 100 points. All I said was that he had potential, and depending on the situation, a better chance then he does now.

4) Of course the honus is on Spezza, always has been. But starting fresh in a place where half the fans don't hate his guts will be a step in the right direction won't it?

I know you're objective, but you made it sound like Spezza wasnt a product of an absolutely perfect situation during his first few years.

Anyways, if Spezza did ask for a trade, I think that shows a total lack of character and The Sens will never win with that. I would have a lot more respect for the guy if he came back and said or better yet, PROVED people wrong.

A man would honour the richest contract ever given by the franchise, I dont care what his reasons are at this point, he is the one who signed the deal, no one else.

stempniaksen wrote:

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:Starting fresh and putting up 100 points in a new destination will make him relevant, no matter where he ends up.

Little too much credit there. Doing something he has never done in his career with less tallent? Dont think so. He may hit 90 but Spezza wont be hitting 100 points anywhere except maybe on a top tier team, which wont happen if he's dealt.

If he goes to Columbus with Nash, Voracek and Filatov surrounding him? Or to a team like Edmonton who will have Hemsky, Hall, Eberle and MPS? Please tell me how Spezza will get by without Nick Foligno and Peter Regin holding his hand and helping him through.

Did you ever stop to consider that other teams might actually have more talent than the Senators do up front? Listen I like Regin and co as much as the next guy, but Spezza is the straw that stirs the drink up front and whether he's in Ottawa, Columbus or Edmonton the guy will put up points.

Yes saying he would hit 100 is maybe a little far fetched, but you know what, it might not be with the amount of talent this guy has.

People know my view on this so I'm not gonna keep ramming it down their throats, but this move has the potential to be one of the worst moves in franchise history. right up there with drafting Daigle and letting Chara walk.

Spezza has no shot of hitting 100 points in Ottawa now, Im talking about when he had Heatley and Alfi by his side, he never did it. Yeah, he might have been on pace for that but that was also on arguably the best regular season team in the league. There is no shot Spezza goes to a place with a complete defence and two 40 goal guys on his wing, none. I get you like Spezza but you have to be more objective then that.

Between his injuries, his inconsistancy, and the fact he needs an all star winger (maybe 2) to really produce a PPG clip consistantly, saying he will hit 100 points is pretty tough to swallow.

Anyways, if Spezza does get traded and doesnt change his game, he will be eaten alive in The West. At some point he is going to have to look in the mirror because he has basically blammed the fans this time around. It's on him and only him be it in Ottawa or any place else.

1) Agreed, Spezza won't hit 100 in Ottawa anytime soon.

2) C'mon, you know me enough to be objective. But you have to admit put into a situation where he has free reign with Rick Nash on his wing he has a shot. Although I agree he will never be a 2way player hitting 100 points.

3) You make it sound like I bet my life on him scoring 100 points. All I said was that he had potential, and depending on the situation, a better chance then he does now.

4) Of course the honus is on Spezza, always has been. But starting fresh in a place where half the fans don't hate his guts will be a step in the right direction won't it?

half is a bit of an exaggeration, less then a quarter I would say. Ask the casual sens fan and they’ll tell you thy don’t want him gone. (or they change their opinion from game to game) ask the dedicated fan and it’s still less then half ...
he's the whipping boy. someone will take his place after he's gone.

On the one hand I agree with everything you say. At some point the guy has to realize that he needs to work to become a better player and prove the haters wrong.

On the other hand I put myself in Spezza's shoes and I wonder how the guy must be feeling. I have a gut feeling that (and there's no proof to back this up or anything) if Spezza put up Crosby type numbers while having a 2way game people would still find something to harp on him about.

That goes back to our conversation a couple weeks back where I said that as a Spezza fan I want the guy gone. Not because he's gonna turn into Wayne Gretzky on the ice, but because without all that pressure on him he might actually have a chance at success.

It'll be interesting to see how the summer goes. I think if Spezza makes if past the draft he's a Sen for five to ten. That being said, the draft is still a long time away so lots can happen.

Lets face it though, asking for a trade will be a serious knock on his character and attitude though. It's basically quitting, which people have acused Spezza of doing when things get hard on the ice, I am one of them for sure and I believe that by what I see on the ice. Now, he is just showing that he is the same off the ice. If he didnt ask for a trade, this all goes away and what I am saying has absolutely no baring, but if he did, well I can say I was right about his character, work ethic, and attitude in general along with a lot of other people.

If Spezza gets away from Ottawa he has a better shot at reaching his potential, I 100% agree, but I dont think his attitude goes away. He has to show that he is worth the money, the hype, and the patients of where ever he plays next year.

N4L wrote:Lets face it though, asking for a trade will be a serious knock on his character and attitude though. It's basically quitting, which people have acused Spezza of doing when things get hard on the ice, I am one of them for sure and I believe that by what I see on the ice. Now, he is just showing that he is the same off the ice. If he didnt ask for a trade, this all goes away and what I am saying has absolutely no baring, but if he did, well I can say I was right about his character, work ethic, and attitude in general along with a lot of other people.

If Spezza gets away from Ottawa he has a better shot at reaching his potential, I 100% agree, but I dont think his attitude goes away. He has to show that he is worth the money, the hype, and the patients of where ever he plays next year.

Any other player an I'm right there with ya. But there's something about Spezza makes me wanna cheer for him. I truly do think he loves it in Ottawa and wants to make it work. His thought process right now must be figuring it out if it can work.

I've never seen a player get ridden as hard as Spezza has in his time here in Ottawa whether by coaches, fans or the media. Not even Wade Redden who was treated unfairly as well.

I agree that if he ultimately does ask for a trade it will be tough to defend. But I will understand why he did it.

I understand why too, anyone who doesnt is blind to the facts. That being said, with more character a person would try and overcome that, because a lot of people defend Spezza, about the same amount who ride him. He owes a lot of people a lot of things still in Ottawa.

There is no proof that he has asked for a trade though, so speculating on his character because of it is wrong, so I'll end it there.

Knock on Edmonton's door and offer Spezza+ for the 1st pick! We could use a Hall or Seguin.

I would lose my mind.