Ottawa Senators off-season talk

Spezza was a whole 3 points off a PPG this season. Saying he'll never
reach that point again is extremely short sighted on your behalf.

And at no point in his career was Heatley ever a top 2 winger in the
game. Both Spezza and Heatley both road the coat tails of Alfie's prime.
That isn't to say they both aren't top liners though, which seems to be
the argument you're trying to make.

stempniaksen wrote:Spezza was a whole 3 points off a PPG this season. Saying he'll never
reach that point again is extremely short sighted on your behalf.

And at no point in his career was Heatley ever a top 2 winger in the
game. Both Spezza and Heatley both road the coat tails of Alfie's prime.
That isn't to say they both aren't top liners though, which seems to be
the argument you're trying to make.

I said he may never hit a PPG again and I should probably be more clear. He may never surpass 82 points again. Between staying healthy, playing consistant, and Ottawa's desire to play an in your face, responsible, two way game, Spezza very well may never hit 80 points again, Im not saying he wont, Im saying it's a possibility. There are no 40-50 goal scorers in Ottawa right now and no true snipper, Spezza is going to have a hell of a time finding consistancy in his game without one. Unless he turns into that solid 2 way player that can put up between 65-75 points, he's going to be in a lot of trouble.

Im so sick of the PPG argument because in the long and short of things, it doesnt matter. What matters is a number 1 center truly buying into a TEAM concept and doing what's needed for the TEAM to win. The TEAM needs a guy that can be counted on, trusted, and looked up to at that number 1 spot, it's plain and simple.

Even looking at MTL, Philly, Chicago, and SJ, all of them have leadership in that number 1 center role. Gomez is by no means a true number 1 guy but he does bring a ton of leadership, a two way game, and someone that can be looked up to and trusted to do what the team wants. I would no way take him over Spezza, but what he brings to the Canadians is what Ottawa needs in that same spot. Philly and Chicago, no contest, their number 1 guys are head and shoulders better then Spezza and that's about as arguable as the earth being round. San Jose, Thornton might not be that guy that can take a team to the promise land but he has still been a captain in The NHL, still wears an "A" in SJ, and still is looked up to by his fellow team mates.

The time to be patient with Spezza is over. Even if he isnt traded (which he probably wont be, but I will say it's 50/50 right now based on Boo Boo's info) he will still be held accountable as well as he should be by fans for the next 5 years. He better start buying into what the team is selling because he has felt very little of what The Sens fans could throw at him, very little. Imagine 5 years more of this kind of talk if he doesnt get his game in order... he complains to his boss now, imagine what he will be saying about The Ottawa Fans after another couple years?

Also, Heatley was off the charts when he first came to Ottawa in his first two years (regular season). He was widely reguarded as the best LW in the game at that point, Alfi, well, he's Alfi.

N4L wrote:Those were two ELITE, maybe the best wingers in the game at the time playing with him, Iginla was the other one that could be 1, 2 or 3. Spezza was a product of an offensive powerhouse in a weak Eastern Conferance. Spezza may never hit a PPG again in The NHL and it wouldnt surprise me one bit.

He's a tallented guy that has basically stalled in his development. Like I said, he peaked early in his career, he wont be any better then he was 4, 5 years ago.

He'll hit a PPG next year, it's not enough though. And the reasons he can't do more is that we're weak at the wing position comparatively to 2007. Heatley was elite, but not because he's an exceptional player, he got open, Spezza hit him with passes every time. Playing with Alfie raised both of their games as well and we need that again. But we don't have that player in the system yet.

The more I think about it, Spezza's necessary here but without wingers to play with he's obviously much less effective.

I'm okay with him being a defacto number 2 center and coming out to man the PP. But again, there's no one in the system capable of being more offensively creative than Spezza.

In a perfect world you have Brad Richards centering Regin and Alfredsson, then Spezza centering Michalek and Cullen, but alas, this is a cap era, not a perfect world. Richards and Spezza create your 1-2 punch at center and are 100% interchangeable. Richards not having a great game? Spezza is elevated, Spezza not having a great game, you lean on Richards a little more. Right now we have Mike Fisher backing Spezza up...enough said.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:Those were two ELITE, maybe the best wingers in the game at the time playing with him, Iginla was the other one that could be 1, 2 or 3. Spezza was a product of an offensive powerhouse in a weak Eastern Conferance. Spezza may never hit a PPG again in The NHL and it wouldnt surprise me one bit.

He's a tallented guy that has basically stalled in his development. Like I said, he peaked early in his career, he wont be any better then he was 4, 5 years ago.

He'll hit a PPG next year, it's not enough though. And the reasons he can't do more is that we're weak at the wing position comparatively to 2007. Heatley was elite, but not because he's an exceptional player, he got open, Spezza hit him with passes every time. Playing with Alfie raised both of their games as well and we need that again. But we don't have that player in the system yet.

The more I think about it, Spezza's necessary here but without wingers to play with he's obviously much less effective.

I'm okay with him being a defacto number 2 center and coming out to man the PP. But again, there's no one in the system capable of being more offensively creative than Spezza.

In a perfect world you have Brad Richards centering Regin and Alfredsson, then Spezza centering Michalek and Cullen, but alas, this is a cap era, not a perfect world. Richards and Spezza create your 1-2 punch at center and are 100% interchangeable. Richards not having a great game? Spezza is elevated, Spezza not having a great game, you lean on Richards a little more. Right now we have Mike Fisher backing Spezza up...enough said.

Even if he does, so what? I would rather him get 60-70 and back check hard, make sure he is doing his job down low in the deffensive zone while he picks his spots. All that takes is effort and mental toughness. You really think Toews is more tallented then Spezza? No shot. Hell, there probably isnt one part of the game Toews is physically superior to Spezza, mentally, the guy could probably knock Spezza over with telapathy.

Point is everything that is wrong with Spezza is right between his ears, his past off ice issues, to his current on ice issues and his issues with The Ottawa fans and media apparently. 27 years old... might want to grow up a little.

N4L wrote:
Even if he does, so what? I would rather him get 60-70 and back check hard, make sure he is doing his job down low in the deffensive zone while he picks his spots. All that takes is effort and mental toughness. You really think Toews is more tallented then Spezza? No shot. Hell, there probably isnt one part of the game Toews is physically superior to Spezza, mentally, the guy could probably knock Spezza over with telapathy.

Point is everything that is wrong with Spezza is right between his ears, his past off ice issues, to his current on ice issues and his issues with The Ottawa fans and media apparently. 27 years old... might want to grow up a little.

You're never getting that with Spezza. I hope he can get to 100 points at some point and be a dangerous player for us - especially on the PP.

That is what I believe is what's needed and if you cant get it, you have to look further down the road rather then just next year. If you cant get that from your number 1 center who has a NTC that kicks in soon, you cut bait and find another way to go. That's my philosophy in terms of what you need and how you build a team.

Both number 1 centers going to the finals this year are either the teams best player or their captain... in this case, both.

How many number 1 centers in the league dont at least wear an "A" on their jersey? Marinate on that.

N4L wrote:That is what I believe is what's needed and if you cant get it, you have to look further down the road rather then just next year. If you cant get that from your number 1 center who has a NTC that kicks in soon, you cut bait and find another way to go. That's my philosophy in terms of what you need and how you build a team.

Both number 1 centers going to the finals this year are either the teams best player or their captain... in this case, both.

How many number 1 centers in the league dont at least wear an "A" on their jersey? Marinate on that.

Look at Spezza like you would look at Kane from now on - he's talented and makes things happen, but he's never going to lead and most likely won't keep a letter on his jersey for any period of time.

Unless all of a sudden Clouston, Orr, Murray, Alfredsson etc. all finally break through to him about what steps are needed to become an all-around player - but that's not gonna happen.

SpezDispenser wrote:

In a perfect world you have Brad Richards centering Regin and Alfredsson, then Spezza centering Michalek and Cullen, but alas, this is a cap era, not a perfect world. Richards and Spezza create your 1-2 punch at center and are 100% interchangeable. Richards not having a great game? Spezza is elevated, Spezza not having a great game, you lean on Richards a little more. Right now we have Mike Fisher backing Spezza up...enough said.

I agree with this completely. To win nowadays, you need to have a great centre on your top 2 lines. That's why Washington hasn't had postseasons success, and that's why San Jose got swept, because Pavelski's game dropped in the last series.

How many championship level teams don't have two centers who carry their teams?

I'm not saying Spezza is without fault, but the guy needs a little bit of insulation offensively.

Plekanec, Pavelski, Sharp, Carter are all better than Fisher. And that's part of the problem.

stempniaksen wrote:How many championship level teams don't have two centers who carry their teams?

I'm not saying Spezza is without fault, but the guy needs a little bit of insulation offensively.

Plekanec, Pavelski, Sharp, Carter are all better than Fisher. And that's part of the problem.

For sure.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:That is what I believe is what's needed and if you cant get it, you have to look further down the road rather then just next year. If you cant get that from your number 1 center who has a NTC that kicks in soon, you cut bait and find another way to go. That's my philosophy in terms of what you need and how you build a team.

Both number 1 centers going to the finals this year are either the teams best player or their captain... in this case, both.

How many number 1 centers in the league dont at least wear an "A" on their jersey? Marinate on that.

Look at Spezza like you would look at Kane from now on - he's talented and makes things happen, but he's never going to lead and most likely won't keep a letter on his jersey for any period of time.

Unless all of a sudden Clouston, Orr, Murray, Alfredsson etc. all finally break through to him about what steps are needed to become an all-around player - but that's not gonna happen.

Kane makes less, doesnt play as important a position, and doenst have a NTC. If you want to compare a 21 year old kid in his 3rd year vs a 27 year old Spezza in his 7th... then that says VERY LITTLE about Spezza.

It sounds like you have given up and just pray to God it worksouts. I hope if Murray and the others have given up on him they dont keep him around because at that point, they wouldnt be doing their job.

Spezza plays the 2nd most important position in hockey next to a goaltender. He sees more ice time, the teams top checkers, and it comes with a ton of pressure. You need someone who can actually handle all that, Spezza cant. Him complaining about the fans and getting boo'd basically proves it. If his biggest concern after that first round was the fans getting on him, well, there is something seriously wrong there.

stempniaksen wrote:How many championship level teams don't have two centers who carry their teams?

I'm not saying Spezza is without fault, but the guy needs a little bit of insulation offensively.

Plekanec, Pavelski, Sharp, Carter are all better than Fisher. And that's part of the problem.

Id take Fisher over Plekanec every day of the week. The guy hasnt done anything since game 1 in the first round. The other 3 I agree with.

I wouldnt take Spezza over the other 3 either if we are going to bash Fisher. Sharp better player, Carter way better, Pavekski, about the same IMO. That is a huge problem as well.

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:How many championship level teams don't have two centers who carry their teams?

I'm not saying Spezza is without fault, but the guy needs a little bit of insulation offensively.

Plekanec, Pavelski, Sharp, Carter are all better than Fisher. And that's part of the problem.

Id take Fisher over Plekanec every day of the week. The guy hasnt done anything since game 1 in the first round. The other 3 I agree with.

I wouldnt take Spezza over the other 3 either if we are going to bash Fisher. Sharp better player, Carter way better, Pavekski, about the same IMO. That is a huge problem as well.

The only one I'd rather have is Carter, but that's just me. Sharp and Pavelski are guys that compliment the 1st line centre, but I don't think they could be your go-to guy.

N4L wrote:
Kane makes less, doesnt play as important a position, and doenst have a NTC. If you want to compare a 21 year old kid in his 3rd year vs a 27 year old Spezza in his 7th... then that says VERY LITTLE about Spezza.

It sounds like you have given up and just pray to God it worksouts. I hope if Murray and the others have given up on him they dont keep him around because at that point, they wouldnt be doing their job.

Spezza plays the 2nd most important position in hockey next to a goaltender. He sees more ice time, the teams top checkers, and it comes with a ton of pressure. You need someone who can actually handle all that, Spezza cant. Him complaining about the fans and getting boo'd basically proves it. If his biggest concern after that first round was the fans getting on him, well, there is something seriously wrong there.

The money issue is about equal, Kane makes 6.3 to Spezza's 7, but Spezza's contract was done when the market wasn't yet set for these guys unfortunately.

I agree, top line center has a major responsibility, but we don't really have a 2nd line center. I'm not here to rag on Fisher because I like his effort, but he doesn't produce consistently enough, he should either move to wing or be moved to a 3rd line center position and Spezza should be given a real 2nd liner center to help him out a bit. It goes both ways with a player like Spezza, you expect him to produce, but there are no real threats on line 2 to key on, so every team keys on him. It must be pretty frustrating from time to time, which I'm sure ultimately leads to him making dumb decisions.

Again, I'm not giving up, I'm advocating exploring our options at center on line 2.

Well neither can Spezza... this is suggesting you think he is or can be. Spezza has basically proven he cant be the go to guy.

Sharp and Pavelski are better all around players with less offensive production, but you know what you're getting and they come with an effort every night. There is a reason Sharp was in the line for a spot with Team Canada and Spezza was never in the convo.

N4L wrote:
Id take Fisher over Plekanec every day of the week. The guy hasnt done anything since game 1 in the first round. The other 3 I agree with.

I wouldnt take Spezza over the other 3 either if we are going to bash Fisher. Sharp better player, Carter way better, Pavekski, about the same IMO. That is a huge problem as well.

But see, where we'd take Carter or Sharp over Spezza, those teams have Toews and Richards - which leads us right back in a circle again: We have Mike Fisher.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
Kane makes less, doesnt play as important a position, and doenst have a NTC. If you want to compare a 21 year old kid in his 3rd year vs a 27 year old Spezza in his 7th... then that says VERY LITTLE about Spezza.

It sounds like you have given up and just pray to God it worksouts. I hope if Murray and the others have given up on him they dont keep him around because at that point, they wouldnt be doing their job.

Spezza plays the 2nd most important position in hockey next to a goaltender. He sees more ice time, the teams top checkers, and it comes with a ton of pressure. You need someone who can actually handle all that, Spezza cant. Him complaining about the fans and getting boo'd basically proves it. If his biggest concern after that first round was the fans getting on him, well, there is something seriously wrong there.

The money issue is about equal, Kane makes 6.3 to Spezza's 7, but Spezza's contract was done when the market wasn't yet set for these guys unfortunately.

I agree, top line center has a major responsibility, but we don't really have a 2nd line center. I'm not here to rag on Fisher because I like his effort, but he doesn't produce consistently enough, he should either move to wing or be moved to a 3rd line center position and Spezza should be given a real 2nd liner center to help him out a bit. It goes both ways with a player like Spezza, you expect him to produce, but there are no real threats on line 2 to key on, so every team keys on him. It must be pretty frustrating from time to time, which I'm sure ultimately leads to him making dumb decisions.

Again, I'm not giving up, I'm advocating exploring our options at center on line 2.

These are just more excuses for Spezza. It's amazing all the different reason's for Spezza under achieving. It's always on someone else, never on him with those who defend him.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
Id take Fisher over Plekanec every day of the week. The guy hasnt done anything since game 1 in the first round. The other 3 I agree with.

I wouldnt take Spezza over the other 3 either if we are going to bash Fisher. Sharp better player, Carter way better, Pavekski, about the same IMO. That is a huge problem as well.

But see, where we'd take Carter or Sharp over Spezza, those teams have Toews and Richards - which leads us right back in a circle again: We have Mike Fisher.

Richards isnt even as tallented as Spezza... seriously, like Toews, there isnt one thing that Richards has on Spezza in a physical ability sense. He's bigger, faster, more tallented, and so on. If people cant see how much tallent is being wasted in terms of Spezza they need to look a little harder, there isnt a guy in The NHL who is doing less compared to how much ability they actually have. That isnt going to change in Ottawa, no hope for him here. In another city he might be able to get things on track, but in Ottawa, no shot.