PLAYOFF GAME DAY: Game 6: Pittsburgh Penguins (3) @ Ottawa Senators (2) - 7:00pm ET - Sat. Apr. 24th, 2010

marakh wrote:Yep, Cogs and Nilsson doesn't cut it. should be Gagner + 2nd rounder to start at least.
Right now we will probably draft around 20th, so if you want Skinner, you probably trade up at least 10 spots. which is gonna be pretty hard considering we don't have any 2nd rounders left.

We're drafting 18th unless one of Philly, Montreal or Boston can get to the Eastern Conference Finals, in which case we'd draft 17th. If two make it, we draft 16th (duh).

Last time we had the 18th over-all pick we maneuvred our way to a pretty decent player, though.

Also, I'm glad you added the qualifier "as a start" because I'm unconvinced that Gagner can become a top-line centre-man. Small + slow is not a great combination, although Gagner's improved since the draft, certainly. This is why I think they should take Seguin, although Oil fans are arguing that Hall could play centre for them rather than wing.

We'd have to take some salary, obviously (not Horcoff, though) but I would want at least Gagner and one of MPS or Eberle, if not just those 2.

I'll echo Dash's comment, though, that for better or for worse I don't see Spezza getting dealt barring, say, the 'Canes calling up announcing that Eric Staal wants out.

I'm very concerned that there might be an issue with the coaching. These guys played such a horrible game late in the second and the entire 3rd, that I think we might have an issue.

Clouston needs to learn that you can't just sit back and hope to preserve a lead against the defending SC champs - or basically anyone for that matter.

It was utterly predictable when it hit 3-2 that the Pens were going to tie it and that they were an 80% lock to win it in OT. Why is that?

N4L wrote:Now, how do they draft Skinner?

I know you've been preaching it all year, but Spezza has to go. He was just awful tonight, and I don't think there's a fit for him on this team anymore. He's a negative in the compete level and Ottawa needs to move on without him. I honestly think with the progression of Regin and Karlsson plus one of Wiercioch or Cowen, we're just as good. Smith has earned a spot on this team, and with the addition of Keller or maybe even Hoffman, and Butler we'll be okay. I'd trade Spezza for a top-five pick and a package of players/prospects, use the cap room to sign someone in the off-season, buy-out Cheechoo and we're just as competitive. I'm honestly okay with Volch walking and trading Kuba as well. Sometimes addition is best through subtraction and I think now is the time to give that theory a shot.

Kovalfie wrote:

N4L wrote:Now, how do they draft Skinner?

I know you've been preaching it all year, but Spezza has to go. He was just awful tonight, and I don't think there's a fit for him on this team anymore. He's a negative in the compete level and Ottawa needs to move on without him. I honestly think with the progression of Regin and Karlsson plus one of Wiercioch or Cowen, we're just as good. Smith has earned a spot on this team, and with the addition of Keller or maybe even Hoffman, and Butler we'll be okay. I'd trade Spezza for a top-five pick and a package of players/prospects, use the cap room to sign someone in the off-season, buy-out Cheechoo and we're just as competitive. I'm honestly okay with Volch walking and trading Kuba as well. Sometimes addition is best through subtraction and I think now is the time to give that theory a shot.

I appreciate what you're saying in regards to Spezza, but I think your replacement solutions are incredibly far-fetched. Neither Cowen nor Wiercioch will in all likelihood be on the team next season, and neither will fill the massive, gaping hole in our offence. Butler has played 2 games at the NHL level, Keller's a journeyman non-NHLer, Hoffman's dominating the Q on the best team in the league as a 20-year-old. I think you're also going to have to specify who this "someone" is and why they'd want to sign here, especially with Spezza gone.

IMO if you move Spezza you have to have a solution at centre both for the short-term and for the long-term. We have no top-6 centre prospects, let alone front-line elite centre prospects. It's obvious Fisher can't fill that role for more than a short stretch, and Cullen's never shown he can do it either. Cullen's never even cracked 50 points.

I'm as big a fan as anyone of Regin, but expecting him to be the #1 and take on the Charas and Myerses in the NE and just generally the opponent's top checkers, as well as a substantial increase in ice-time, is asking too much of him as a sophomore. Anyway, I think his upper-end potential is to be a 1a/1b centreman.

It's also not as easy as just acquiring a top-5 pick, which is no small feat in itself. 2009 would have been a nice draft for us to move him because four of the top five draft picks (Tavares, Duchene, Kane, Schenn, plus Kadri two picks later) were centremen. In 2010, Seguin's the only centre IMO that looks like he has probable elite potential and we're sure as **** not going to get him. Burmistrov, Granlund and Johansen are nice centres, but not as the focal point of an offence.

So, I see very few potential trading partners that would really provide an appropriate return. Maybe Phoenix if they offered Turris and Boedker, but you'd have to question whether they could taken on Spezza's salary and whether you're willing to bank on Turris developing into a #1 - and soon. Same goes for St. Louis with Berglund. Columbus IMO seems like the best bet, but I doubt they'd be willing to move what we'd want.

Of course, I'm also sure that Melnyk, fresh off of three extra home games' revenue, is not interested in a rebuild.

So, I don't see Spezza getting moved.

Agreed, Spezza's not moving 100% guaranteed. Clouston has a ton of things to take care of this summer - and Spezza's one of them.

I'm more interested in who we can lure here to steady our D once A-Train leaves, and if Wiercioch is as good as people have been whispering - and could he make the NHL?

Top priority is Cullen to me right now. And seeing where we're at with the injured players returning. Who can make the D stronger, who the Ds gonna be. Can we trade Leclaire now that his stock's up, or do we keep him and roll the dice.

Do we make moves that have big ticket salaries because of the $$ we're clearing next summer?

Tons of questions, but overall, this is the team that's returning:

Michalek - Spezza - Alfredsson
Regin - Fisher - Kovalev
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil
Foligno- Z.Smith - Winchester

Shannon, Butler etc.

Phillips - Campoli
Karlsson - Kuba
Carkner - ___________________

^ That D is pretty weak to say the least

Elliott
Leclaire

Not a lot that needs addressing, but at the same time, there's a ton of stuff to look into. Spezza isn't one of them, although no one's impressed with his performance with the chips down, he still had 7 points through 6 games and drives the PP.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'm very concerned that there might be an issue with the coaching. These guys played such a horrible game late in the second and the entire 3rd, that I think we might have an issue.

Clouston needs to learn that you can't just sit back and hope to preserve a lead against the defending SC champs - or basically anyone for that matter.

It was utterly predictable when it hit 3-2 that the Pens were going to tie it and that they were an 80% lock to win it in OT. Why is that?

+1,000,000

take your 2+2 pattern and shove it. it should have been pedal to the metal

I dont see how you can keep Spezza around. This guy has proven he cant do the job of a true number 1 center. Yaaaa, he will get his points and on paper he looks fantastic at times, but what he has done in the last 3 years for the most part is the bar minimum and in the playoffs, he was basically a no show. 1 Goal in his last 15 playoff games and that was a 5 on 3.

We have had the same conversation for 3 years now and I know what the people who defend Spezza will say.

1. He's young, he can still improve. Well, I wouldnt say he's young, he's 27 starting next year. He isnt old but in no way is he considered young in The NHL anymore.

2. Who is going to be our number 1 center? There are other options besides having a true number 1 center. Long term you need one, I agree but short term teams can, are, and will survive without one.

3, He's a PPG player. Ok, so? What does that have to do with him competing and helping the team win in other ways? He doesnt.

Someone already brought up that point, but Regin's production went up when he moved to the top line. Was it just ice time or did it help to have Spezza in there? On a couple of his goals it was Spezza driving, shooting and leaving a nice rebound for a "garbage" goal. On the tying goal in G5 if was Spezza finding him from way down low and delivering a tape-to-tape pass.

And, please, we had a 3-0 lead and lost in OT. If Spezza was on his game maybe we have a 4-0 lead? Of course, the more the merrier, but you can't give up a 3-0 lead and blame it on one guy, unless you are blaming the goalie.

By the way, from a stats point of view, Spezza led the team in shots on goal with 7. Cullen was closest with 5. Alfie had just the one but made it count.

I really don't want to blame anyone for this loss, but when people come out and blame Spezza for losing games 2 and 6 I'd like to ask -- where was Alfredsson for the first four games? He played pretty well in the last two (even though he didn't have the ice time we're used to seeing, so there was definitely something the matter).

The team took the foot off the accelerator in the third. What's Clouston's role? Again, I don't want to blame anyone because we have a lot of rookies and sophomores -- and the coach is no exception. Let's face it, Bylsma is not a better coach but he has a better team, with no injuries.

I'm very upset with the loss, but that's a passing feeling. Underneath there is definitely this surge of pride in what they managed to have accomplished given the hand they were dealt, and anticipation of where this trajectory will take them next year.

Look at the Devils -- gone. Look at the Caps, Sharks, Sabres, Hawks all struggling. Some will move, some won't, but all have questions that need to be answered.

The Sens were not expected to make the playoffs but, if not for some serious injury situations they would have kept pace with Buffalo and finished at least 4th. And if not for torn ACLs for *two* of their top-six they would surely have handled the Pens in 6. As it was, it took some biased refereeing to allow the Pens to move on.

This team has done more with less than anyone outside of the fan-base ever imagined. They are a work in progress from the goalie on out, including the coaching staff. I used to think we would be competitive in 2-3 years, but the kids have done alright in the post-season and I actually think we will be contending next year.

Alfredsson said after the game that he's been playing with a torn stomach muscle for the last month of the season.

What *I* would like to know, then, is why he insisted on playing down the stretch. Was it because of that stupid 1,000 celebration? Surely they could have dressed him for a couple of those games and just had him play one shift? Especially once they had locked up a post-season spot? Could you imagine how hungry he would have been had he been forced to sit on the sidelines the last few games?

wprager wrote:Someone already brought up that point, but Regin's production went up when he moved to the top line. Was it just ice time or did it help to have Spezza in there? On a couple of his goals it was Spezza driving, shooting and leaving a nice rebound for a "garbage" goal. On the tying goal in G5 if was Spezza finding him from way down low and delivering a tape-to-tape pass.

And, please, we had a 3-0 lead and lost in OT. If Spezza was on his game maybe we have a 4-0 lead? Of course, the more the merrier, but you can't give up a 3-0 lead and blame it on one guy, unless you are blaming the goalie.

By the way, from a stats point of view, Spezza led the team in shots on goal with 7. Cullen was closest with 5. Alfie had just the one but made it count.

I really don't want to blame anyone for this loss, but when people come out and blame Spezza for losing games 2 and 6 I'd like to ask -- where was Alfredsson for the first four games? He played pretty well in the last two (even though he didn't have the ice time we're used to seeing, so there was definitely something the matter).

The team took the foot off the accelerator in the third. What's Clouston's role? Again, I don't want to blame anyone because we have a lot of rookies and sophomores -- and the coach is no exception. Let's face it, Bylsma is not a better coach but he has a better team, with no injuries.

I'm very upset with the loss, but that's a passing feeling. Underneath there is definitely this surge of pride in what they managed to have accomplished given the hand they were dealt, and anticipation of where this trajectory will take them next year.

Look at the Devils -- gone. Look at the Caps, Sharks, Sabres, Hawks all struggling. Some will move, some won't, but all have questions that need to be answered.

The Sens were not expected to make the playoffs but, if not for some serious injury situations they would have kept pace with Buffalo and finished at least 4th. And if not for torn ACLs for *two* of their top-six they would surely have handled the Pens in 6. As it was, it took some biased refereeing to allow the Pens to move on.

This team has done more with less than anyone outside of the fan-base ever imagined. They are a work in progress from the goalie on out, including the coaching staff. I used to think we would be competitive in 2-3 years, but the kids have done alright in the post-season and I actually think we will be contending next year.

You mean besides being banged up and injured, not hurt, injured.? Alfi did everything he could possibly do to compete and be effective.

The sick thing Im starting to see from Sens fans, not just you, people start to bash Spezza and question his character people say "well, what about Alfi?" Alfi should never be questioned based on his effort and the fact he is 37 years old and slowing down... yet was still a better and more effective player then Spezza.

Alfi was an inspiration to watch in this series because there are not a lot of people who can do what he did against The Pens. A lesser player wouldnt have played with the kind of energy he did, a lesser player probably wouldnt have played.

The loss isnt on Spezza, no one said it was but the fact he didnt even show up to compete tonight, at home, in an elimination game is disturbing. He was awful at home all series. You can talk about the 5 if you want, but those were all from the outside and not a Pen near him. 1 goal in his last 15 playoff games, that's an awful stat for your 7 million dollar center.

Spezza is paid to not only produce but lead this team and step up when no one else can. He doesnt do that. What Spezxa brings you can get from a Mike Ribiero, a Marc Savard, or a Derek Roy. Good players, border line number 1 centers, but they make around 5 mil, Spezza makes 7 for 5 more years.

The team over acheived this year in part to decent goaltending, Karlsson, and a balanced attack up front. How different is this team without Spezza right now? Not a whole lot.

wprager wrote:Alfredsson said after the game that he's been playing with a torn stomach muscle for the last month of the season.

What *I* would like to know, then, is why he insisted on playing down the stretch. Was it because of that stupid 1,000 celebration? Surely they could have dressed him for a couple of those games and just had him play one shift? Especially once they had locked up a post-season spot? Could you imagine how hungry he would have been had he been forced to sit on the sidelines the last few games?

That's absolutely insane. He plays because he cares about his team and his city. This is the kind of Dung that should show why he shouldnt be questioned.

He is a franchise player, he is a leader, and he is an inpiration to every senator fan, player, and coach that has anything invested in The Ottawa Senators. He is the kind of guy that should make people feel proud to be a Sens fan.

Anyways, this was a great season by The Sens, they over achieved for once, gave the cup champs all they could handle, and the youth that was injected and will be injected in the next few years is going to be something special going forward. Some tough choices will have to be made though.

The Sens will run away with the NE next year too, they are the best team in the division, I dont see anyone touching them in that aspect next year. Buffalo, Boston, and Montreal are not the team Ottawa currently is.

It will be interesting going forward to say the least.

N4L wrote:The Sens will run away with the NE next year too, they are the best team in the division, I dont see anyone touching them in that aspect next year. Buffalo, Boston, and Montreal are not the team Ottawa currently is.

It will be interesting going forward to say the least.

Watch out for the leafs as well, they are definitely a team "on the come" as they say.

I was on the ice last night and only had a chance to tune in for the end of the 3rd and for OT, so what I'm about to say might sound ignorant but hear me out.

I think Karlsson made a big rookie mistake on Dupuis' OT winner. He tried to get too cute and tap it between his legs, where Staal picked it off, waited just long enough and dished it to Dupuis.

I'm not putting the loss on Karlsson, he has exceeded my expectations by a longshot to be honest. But that moment will be a defining one for him. If he is truly going to be great, that play will teach him a big lesson and he will be that much smarter and more poised in the future. If he's more of the Spezza mould (doubtful) he won't learn from it. I can't imagine that for some reason.

Karlsson has learned from every mistake he has made. I have never seen a rookie evolve so much in one season. This kid may continue to make the occassional defensive mistake, but he is going to be absolutely sick and soon. Awesome.

EDIT: Remember this is his first season playing 80-100 games. So much for the concerns about his being able to handle a full season of NA hockey. The sky is the limit for him.

Not even that many games either Rob, he only played 60 with Ottawa in the regular season, so that means he only has 66 NHL games so far. So yeah, he's doing very well for someone the Sens have entrusted with a lot of ice time and responsibility. Maybe a little too much too soon but he's handled it very well.

Regin had an exceptional post-season, and Smith is someone we need who will play bottom 6 minutes and fight so our other two (Neil and Carkner) don't have to.

Ruutu-Kelly-Neil was an amazing line. Foligno is a strong dude, loved the way he drove the net and guarded the puck.

You have to wonder where guys like Michalek and Kovalev and even Kuba fit into this team that played this well without them. I can see Kovalev and Kuba moving.

Dash wrote:Not even that many games either Rob, he only played 60 with Ottawa in the regular season, so that means he only has 66 NHL games so far. So yeah, he's doing very well for someone the Sens have entrusted with a lot of ice time and responsibility. Maybe a little too much too soon but he's handled it very well.

Regin had an exceptional post-season, and Smith is someone we need who will play bottom 6 minutes and fight so our other two (Neil and Carkner) don't have to.

Ruutu-Kelly-Neil was an amazing line. Foligno is a strong dude, loved the way he drove the net and guarded the puck.

You have to wonder where guys like Michalek and Kovalev and even Kuba fit into this team that played this well without them. I can see Kovalev and Kuba moving.

I have no doubt that those three healthy players would have helped our chances this series. Even as good as the lineup in its current formation played, those are three key cogs who contribute in every facet of the game.