GAME 4 - 2010 Stanley Cup GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators (1) @ Pittsburgh Penguins (2), Tuesday Apr. 20, 2010 - 7:00PM EST.

SensGirl11 wrote:Malkin was pretty invisible yesterday, I wondered if he was even playing at times.

The Pens are already feel overconfident that they have this in the bag, anyone see Orpik's gesture to the crowd through the glass ?

Malkin is dreaming of a 2nd Conn Smythe, he doesn't have to compete because there's not a worry in the Pens' dressing room.

Flo The Action wrote:i think(and actually voted) that the sens are gonna take the next one. in all honesty they have to to keep any hope alive in the series.

alot of what i'm hearing here rings alot of truth. matching our top line against their top line isn't giving our top guys much space to work with. seriously, whoever is on the ice at the same time as crosby is gonna have to try and shut him down. never spezza's biggest plus.

spezza is being forced into a role that isn't best cut for him. sure he'd been showing improvments in the second part of the season but i think you try and facilitate him by making his job to score instead of defence.
hopefully clouston has taken that in for game 4.

another point is that we are missing 2 top 6 forwards and a top 4 D-man. the pens... leopold. i think the sens are battling pretty honourably(not so much in the last game) for where they are at and who they are facing. game 2 was a good game by the sens.

also fleury had a tough time in front of his crowd in game one, i can see how elliot could too. hopefully the sens can learn from some of last games mistakes. throw cheechoo in as it keeps being repeated.

and in case everyone forgot, there is alot of kids on this team who are benefiting from these playoffs and showing good potential even if mistakes are being made. i love what i'm seeing from regin and karlsson. and if anyone thought we were cup contenders this year... well... sorry for your hopes and dreams. i'm just hoping to see what some of our players are made of, and i'm plensently surprised by some.

So what? That's a losers attitude right there. It's the playoffs, you do things that you wouldnt normally do. Im so sick of hearing "Spezza isnt paid to play defence" or "he has to get away from Crosby". Guess what, he wont be getting away from Crosby and Malkin, both of who have out played Spezza thus far. He can either do the job or he cant, simple as that. If he cant, it's time to cut bait.

Sens are a better TEAM without Heatley and they wont be worse without Spezza. Spezza needs to show he can do something to help The Sens in the playoffs because that's what matters and the cup is the ultimate goal. If he cant do it with Alfi, omg, he wont be doing it without him.

Malkin was not invisible, they just didn't need him as much last night because they were focused on outhitting us, and then Crosby took it from there.

If Malkin is invisilbe and they still win, that's why they are champions.

N4L wrote:Trading Spezza for Thornton would be spinning your tires. I would be looking to Atlanta and seeing if they would be willing to give up their top 10 pick along with Klinenberg, Cormier, and a roster player.

Sens wont be competing for a cup this year, next, or whenever. They need to start stock pilling some forward prospects to go along with the solid base that has been built by Murray on the back end.

If you can get Skinner, Klienenberg, Cormier, and perhaps McFarlend all in the system in one year to go along with Karlsson, Cowen, Wiercoich, Gryba, Lehner, Regin, Z.Smith, Silvferberg, and Petersson, that's a really solid base to build on. Skinner may very well be the next coming of Mike Richards and would be Kadri's worse nightmare which is important within the division.

if theres a trade to be made that can be advantagious for the sens they i'm not opposed to it. but who's to replace spezza as a number 1 center? heck i still think fisher is an amazing 3rd line center and regin can grow into a good 2nd line center, but what we need is a good number 1 center to step in next year. none of this jumbo for spezza thing either.
i'm not familiar(appart from cormier) with any players you've named but is there someone in there that can come in rright away? my view on hockey is that your top 3 fowards grow into the position from past years and unless they come thru free agency or trade(with a heafty price) there's no gamble on maybes.

If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

I didn't want to get dragged back into this thread but I can't resist. I hate to say this but the Pens are playing just good enough to get the job done and that could be a factor of knowing what level to play at to conserve yourself for each up coming round having been to the finals two years in a row already.

Perhaps and just perhaps the Sens can take advantage of that for one game and draw this series out to 6 but I get the sense that the Pens will match the Sens intensity and bring it up ever so slightly in order to get the 4 w's they need for round 1.

N4L wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:i think(and actually voted) that the sens are gonna take the next one. in all honesty they have to to keep any hope alive in the series.

alot of what i'm hearing here rings alot of truth. matching our top line against their top line isn't giving our top guys much space to work with. seriously, whoever is on the ice at the same time as crosby is gonna have to try and shut him down. never spezza's biggest plus.

spezza is being forced into a role that isn't best cut for him. sure he'd been showing improvments in the second part of the season but i think you try and facilitate him by making his job to score instead of defence.
hopefully clouston has taken that in for game 4.

another point is that we are missing 2 top 6 forwards and a top 4 D-man. the pens... leopold. i think the sens are battling pretty honourably(not so much in the last game) for where they are at and who they are facing. game 2 was a good game by the sens.

also fleury had a tough time in front of his crowd in game one, i can see how elliot could too. hopefully the sens can learn from some of last games mistakes. throw cheechoo in as it keeps being repeated.

and in case everyone forgot, there is alot of kids on this team who are benefiting from these playoffs and showing good potential even if mistakes are being made. i love what i'm seeing from regin and karlsson. and if anyone thought we were cup contenders this year... well... sorry for your hopes and dreams. i'm just hoping to see what some of our players are made of, and i'm plensently surprised by some.

So what? That's a losers attitude right there. It's the playoffs, you do things that you wouldnt normally do. Im so sick of hearing "Spezza isnt paid to play defence" or "he has to get away from Crosby". Guess what, he wont be getting away from Crosby and Malkin, both of who have out played Spezza thus far. He can either do the job or he cant, simple as that. If he cant, it's time to cut bait.

Sens are a better TEAM without Heatley and they wont be worse without Spezza. Spezza needs to show he can do something to help The Sens in the playoffs because that's what matters and the cup is the ultimate goal. If he cant do it with Alfi, omg, he wont be doing it without him.

you're sticking way too much on his price tag(ok so i've stuck on kovalev's also...) appart from 10 maybe 15 players in the nhl everybody making 7 mill and over has down sides. adjust to them. spezza has up sides, make use of them. i don't disagree that we can't trade him, just for the time being, make use the best way possible.

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

So the leadership is being questioned now? It wasn't Alfie, Phillips or Volchenkov that were out on the ice looking like morons every time Crosby skated into the Sens zone.

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

i always thought there was agrain of truth into what some of the stuff you write but now you're off the wagon... total rebuid is no way feasable unless your e the leafs, or habs or relocating or completely forced into it(by being in the last 5 teams for years.) come on buddy have you no faith in some of our youth? what's this dump the load and pick up spare parts good for. we are gonna be a playoff team for years to come till we become a cup contender. hockey is a business budy, ottawa can't survive by scraping the barrel for 5 years. just look at the attendance drop over just a couple of years. and people are coming cuz we do have alfie
lay off the Glue, it's killing your brain cells.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

So the leadership is being questioned now? It wasn't Alfie, Phillips or Volchenkov that were out on the ice looking like morons every time Crosby skated into the Sens zone.

It's not their fault we have lost 2 games this series, but after whatever many years of Alfie and Phillips leading this team, with 0 results, I think it's time for a change. I'm not gonna call them losers or anything like that, but in the end it's a business, and when you have been the captain and assistant captain for so long and you haven't gotten the job done, it's time to go.

Spezza's down time is when games matter or games get hard. That's the difference. Kovalev, like it or not has had some great playoffs and carried teams a lot further then they should have gone, be it just making the playoffs or winning a round or two. Hell, he had 21 points in the playoffs when he won the cup with NYR. The guy has always someone managed to get the job done when it matters. Spezza always finds a way to lose, or at least the teams he is one does.

Price tag aside, this is the guy that the players look to for a jump or something to build on, he isnt a leader, but he has to lead. Having a guy like that on your team kills momentum or spirits just as quickly as a bad goal will.

There is no way I would build a team around Spezza and once Alfi is gone, that's exactly what will happen. Also, Spezza having an NTC would be deadly to this organization IMO looking at how things are right now, very little character and if he ever asked for a trade, Murray and The Sens would be SOL.

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

Ummm, what? Spezza for sure, A Train can go either way. Phillips and Alfi? If anything you want them around to build a team and the young guys to learn from. That's basically all the leadership Ottawa has.

Flo The Action wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

i always thought there was agrain of truth into what some of the stuff you write but now you're off the wagon... total rebuid is no way feasable unless your e the leafs, or habs or relocating or completely forced into it(by being in the last 5 teams for years.) come on buddy have you no faith in some of our youth? what's this dump the load and pick up spare parts good for. we are gonna be a playoff team for years to come till we become a cup contender. hockey is a business budy, ottawa can't survive by scraping the barrel for 5 years. just look at the attendance drop over just a couple of years. and people are coming cuz we do have alfie
lay off the Glue, it's killing your brain cells.

I have faith in our youth, I didn't say get rid of them. It's time to change the leadership and culture of the team (out with the old and in with the new), and groom the young talent or other players you bring in to be the new leaders of this team. My idea is extreme, but that's what it will take in the new NHL.

Just one example, the Ducks won the Cup after getting rid of one of their best leaders and players in Paul Kariya who couldn't get the job done.

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

Ummm, what? Spezza for sure, A Train can go either way. Phillips and Alfi? If anything you want them around to build a team and the young guys to learn from. That's basically all the leadership Ottawa has.

According to you Alfie won't be around when we're contenders, unless of course you think Alfie will still be playing when he's 42?

I'm just kidding BTW so don't crap on me for nothin'.

Big Ev wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

So the leadership is being questioned now? It wasn't Alfie, Phillips or Volchenkov that were out on the ice looking like morons every time Crosby skated into the Sens zone.

It's not their fault we have lost 2 games this series, but after whatever many years of Alfie and Phillips leading this team, with 0 results, I think it's time for a change. I'm not gonna call them losers or anything like that, but in the end it's a business, and when you have been the captain and assistant captain for so long and you haven't gotten the job done, it's time to go.

Ummm, no it's not. Not when they are your clear leaders, best players, and playoff performers. Seriously, do you just talk to sound like you're high or are you actually high?

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

Ummm, what? Spezza for sure, A Train can go either way. Phillips and Alfi? If anything you want them around to build a team and the young guys to learn from. That's basically all the leadership Ottawa has.

According to you Alfie won't be around when we're contenders, unless of course you think Alfie will still be playing when he's 42?

I'm just kidding BTW so don't crap on me for nothin'.

I dont think Alfi will be around for an Ottawa Cup but they still have to start building a better young core upfront. You look at a team like Nashville and that's where Ottawa is headed right now. Good goaltending, great defense, but in no way can compete with other teams forwards. Ottawa has to fix that and quick... Spezza obviously cant.

Spezza's not getting a free ride from me on this series so far, but man oh man, Fisher, Alfie, Foligno (trade fodder), even Cullen had better start putting the puck in the net or we might as well skip the next 2 games. Cullen missing that wide open net was horrendous, I shook it off at the time, but in retrospect, that was the killer.

Spezza's a big part of this team, but there's a heck of a lot to look at right now. This team needs to be in the Pens' face - specifically their 3 good players. Why does Crosby not have 2 guys on him hitting him and jostling with him? So he makes the pass through 2 guys, so be it, at least we don't have one guy on him letting him bury our season.

Get guys on Crosby and Malkin FFS and start getting physical with the Pens weak D, come the Diddle on.

And then Alfie, Spezza, Fisher, Foligno etc. had better show up and start pumping goals in or it's all their faults. All of them, not just Spezza ALL OF THEM.

Does Alfie not realize how few chances you get at winning a Cup? I thought he did and he's been bad. How about Fisher? What's a guy making 4.2 million dollars if he's not gonna perform in the most important games of the year. Foligno is not ready for prime time playoff action. Cullen has been really good, but again, take advantage of an open net for goodness sake.

Phillips and A-Train are doing their best, Karlsson is fine - making some mistakes, but learning. Sutton? Wow, terrible. Carkner? Not great at all.

Elliott needs to wake up. Clouston needs to start coaching again.

Again, there's a long, long, long, long list of things that have to be corrected or we're dead.

SpezDispenser wrote:Spezza's not getting a free ride from me on this series so far, but man oh man, Fisher, Alfie, Foligno (trade fodder), even Cullen had better start putting the puck in the net or we might as well skip the next 2 games. Cullen missing that wide open net was horrendous, I shook it off at the time, but in retrospect, that was the killer.

Spezza's a big part of this team, but there's a heck of a lot to look at right now. This team needs to be in the Pens' face - specifically their 3 good players. Why does Crosby not have 2 guys on him hitting him and jostling with him? So he makes the pass through 2 guys, so be it, at least we don't have one guy on him letting him bury our season.

Get guys on Crosby and Malkin FFS and start getting physical with the Pens weak D, come the Diddle on.

And then Alfie, Spezza, Fisher, Foligno etc. had better show up and start pumping goals in or it's all their faults. All of them, not just Spezza ALL OF THEM.

Does Alfie not realize how few chances you get at winning a Cup? I thought he did and he's been bad. How about Fisher? What's a guy making 4.2 million dollars if he's not gonna perform in the most important games of the year. Foligno is not ready for prime time playoff action. Cullen has been really good, but again, take advantage of an open net for goodness sake.

Phillips and A-Train are doing their best, Karlsson is fine - making some mistakes, but learning. Sutton? Wow, terrible. Carkner? Not great at all.

Elliott needs to wake up. Clouston needs to start coaching again.

Again, there's a long, long, long, long list of things that have to be corrected or we're dead.

He's 37 and getting banged all around the ice... he isnt going to domiante games anymore and people have to realize this. Thank God Spezza is avoiding those dangerous area's otherwise he might be rendered useless.