GAME 4 - 2010 Stanley Cup GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators (1) @ Pittsburgh Penguins (2), Tuesday Apr. 20, 2010 - 7:00PM EST.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

Ummm, what? Spezza for sure, A Train can go either way. Phillips and Alfi? If anything you want them around to build a team and the young guys to learn from. That's basically all the leadership Ottawa has.

According to you Alfie won't be around when we're contenders, unless of course you think Alfie will still be playing when he's 42?

I'm just kidding BTW so don't crap on me for nothin'.

I dont think Alfi will be around for an Ottawa Cup but they still have to start building a better young core upfront. You look at a team like Nashville and that's where Ottawa is headed right now. Good goaltending, great defense, but in no way can compete with other teams forwards. Ottawa has to fix that and quick... Spezza obviously cant.

Spezza's not getting a free ride from me on this series so far, but man oh man, Fisher, Alfie, Foligno (trade fodder), even Cullen had better start putting the puck in the net or we might as well skip the next 2 games. Cullen missing that wide open net was horrendous, I shook it off at the time, but in retrospect, that was the killer.

Spezza's a big part of this team, but there's a heck of a lot to look at right now. This team needs to be in the Pens' face - specifically their 3 good players. Why does Crosby not have 2 guys on him hitting him and jostling with him? So he makes the pass through 2 guys, so be it, at least we don't have one guy on him letting him bury our season.

Get guys on Crosby and Malkin FFS and start getting physical with the Pens weak D, come the Diddle on.

And then Alfie, Spezza, Fisher, Foligno etc. had better show up and start pumping goals in or it's all their faults. All of them, not just Spezza ALL OF THEM.

Does Alfie not realize how few chances you get at winning a Cup? I thought he did and he's been bad. How about Fisher? What's a guy making 4.2 million dollars if he's not gonna perform in the most important games of the year. Foligno is not ready for prime time playoff action. Cullen has been really good, but again, take advantage of an open net for goodness sake.

Phillips and A-Train are doing their best, Karlsson is fine - making some mistakes, but learning. Sutton? Wow, terrible. Carkner? Not great at all.

Elliott needs to wake up. Clouston needs to start coaching again.

Again, there's a long, long, long, long list of things that have to be corrected or we're dead.

SpezDispenser wrote:Spezza's not getting a free ride from me on this series so far, but man oh man, Fisher, Alfie, Foligno (trade fodder), even Cullen had better start putting the puck in the net or we might as well skip the next 2 games. Cullen missing that wide open net was horrendous, I shook it off at the time, but in retrospect, that was the killer.

Spezza's a big part of this team, but there's a heck of a lot to look at right now. This team needs to be in the Pens' face - specifically their 3 good players. Why does Crosby not have 2 guys on him hitting him and jostling with him? So he makes the pass through 2 guys, so be it, at least we don't have one guy on him letting him bury our season.

Get guys on Crosby and Malkin FFS and start getting physical with the Pens weak D, come the Diddle on.

And then Alfie, Spezza, Fisher, Foligno etc. had better show up and start pumping goals in or it's all their faults. All of them, not just Spezza ALL OF THEM.

Does Alfie not realize how few chances you get at winning a Cup? I thought he did and he's been bad. How about Fisher? What's a guy making 4.2 million dollars if he's not gonna perform in the most important games of the year. Foligno is not ready for prime time playoff action. Cullen has been really good, but again, take advantage of an open net for goodness sake.

Phillips and A-Train are doing their best, Karlsson is fine - making some mistakes, but learning. Sutton? Wow, terrible. Carkner? Not great at all.

Elliott needs to wake up. Clouston needs to start coaching again.

Again, there's a long, long, long, long list of things that have to be corrected or we're dead.

He's 37 and getting banged all around the ice... he isnt going to domiante games anymore and people have to realize this. Thank God Spezza is avoiding those dangerous area's otherwise he might be rendered useless.

It's just so sad that Spezza always gets ragged on but Alfie, Phillips, etc. ALWAYS get a free pass. It's time to let go of this attachment we have with players like this if we ever want to have a TRUE contender again (Alfie and Phillips are good players, but they've had all the chances in the world to lead the team to a Cup).

N4L wrote:
He's 37 and getting banged all around the ice... he isnt going to domiante games anymore and people have to realize this. Thank God Spezza is avoiding those dangerous area's otherwise he might be rendered useless.

I didn't think he'd fade like that, he's not ready to hang 'em up or anything. He'll need to re-focus, same as Spezza, same as the whole team.

Big Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If the Sens are ever going to win a Cup, I think we need a complete culture change. Alfie, out. Spezza, out. Phillips and Volchenkov, out. It seems harsh right now, but I think that's what needs to be done.

i always thought there was agrain of truth into what some of the stuff you write but now you're off the wagon... total rebuid is no way feasable unless your e the leafs, or habs or relocating or completely forced into it(by being in the last 5 teams for years.) come on buddy have you no faith in some of our youth? what's this dump the load and pick up spare parts good for. we are gonna be a playoff team for years to come till we become a cup contender. hockey is a business budy, ottawa can't survive by scraping the barrel for 5 years. just look at the attendance drop over just a couple of years. and people are coming cuz we do have alfie
lay off the Glue, it's killing your brain cells.

I have faith in our youth, I didn't say get rid of them. It's time to change the leadership and culture of the team (out with the old and in with the new), and groom the young talent or other players you bring in to be the new leaders of this team. My idea is extreme, but that's what it will take in the new NHL.

Just one example, the Ducks won the Cup after getting rid of one of their best leaders and players in Paul Kariya who couldn't get the job done.

i don't know if you remember but we made it to the finals under the leadership. how many teams make have made it to the finals in the last 3 years?4. frankly i think it took alot to make it there and it couldn't have been done without them. as for our youth, they need vets to look up to and i can't think of anyone but Alfie on our team to tka them to the next level.

Big Ev wrote:It's just so sad that Spezza always gets ragged on but Alfie, Phillips, etc. ALWAYS get a free pass. It's time to let go of this attachment we have with players like this if we ever want to have a TRUE contender again (Alfie and Phillips are good players, but they've had all the chances in the world to lead the team to a Cup).

Alfi and Phillips get free passes because they do their job, at home town discounts, and are the best players on this team. Has nothing to do with player attachment and everything to do with the work they put in on and off the ice, in the community, and how well they lead.

Spezza, please, he's none of those things and was given the biggest contract in Sens history. He isnt anything near what those two are.

Don't worry, in 3 years Peter Regin will take his rightful position when Alfie retires. I've seen it in this kid for almost 3 years now and he hasn't done a thing to make me think otherwise. When he was cold I wanted him to go down to Bingo to get hot again - that's how important he is.

Quote me on this in 3 years. Regin is the next Alfie.

Big Ev wrote:It's just so sad that Spezza always gets ragged on but Alfie, Phillips, etc. ALWAYS get a free pass. It's time to let go of this attachment we have with players like this if we ever want to have a TRUE contender again (Alfie and Phillips are good players, but they've had all the chances in the world to lead the team to a Cup).

Spezza makes almost as much as Alfie and Phillips combined.

N4L wrote:Spezza's down time is when games matter or games get hard. That's the difference. Kovalev, like it or not has had some great playoffs and carried teams a lot further then they should have gone, be it just making the playoffs or winning a round or two. Hell, he had 21 points in the playoffs when he won the cup with NYR. The guy has always someone managed to get the job done when it matters. Spezza always finds a way to lose, or at least the teams he is one does.

Price tag aside, this is the guy that the players look to for a jump or something to build on, he isnt a leader, but he has to lead. Having a guy like that on your team kills momentum or spirits just as quickly as a bad goal will.

There is no way I would build a team around Spezza and once Alfi is gone, that's exactly what will happen. Also, Spezza having an NTC would be deadly to this organization IMO looking at how things are right now, very little character and if he ever asked for a trade, Murray and The Sens would be SOL.

kovalev is but a shadow of his former self, in complete decline in the last 3 years. very bad move by ottawa. would of rather signed cammalleri or gionta to thos long contracts then this. at least cam would of scored and gionta is a (short) warrior. instead we got the habs trash on it's way out.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
He's 37 and getting banged all around the ice... he isnt going to domiante games anymore and people have to realize this. Thank God Spezza is avoiding those dangerous area's otherwise he might be rendered useless.

I didn't think he'd fade like that, he's not ready to hang 'em up or anything. He'll need to re-focus, same as Spezza, same as the whole team.

The games picked up and he's slowing down, it's not a huge shock to see he has lost a step, at least it shouldnt be. He wont be dominating a playoff series like he used to, that what Spezza is supposed to be doing and well, hahaha, he hasnt come close nor can he.

Alfi is going to have to lead more and more with les and less on his his shoudlers in terms of production. Look at Modano in Dallas, he slowed down around this point, same as Tkachuk, hell even Doan is slowing. Alfi is a special player and person, but he isnt any different in terms of him getting older and moving on.

Right now what you are seeing are large glimpses of a team featured around Spezza when Alfi is gone, it's scary.

SpezDispenser wrote:Don't worry, in 3 years Peter Regin will take his rightful position when Alfie retires. I've seen it in this kid for almost 3 years now and he hasn't done a thing to make me think otherwise. When he was cold I wanted him to go down to Bingo to get hot again - that's how important he is.

Quote me on this in 3 years. Regin is the next Alfie.

I love Regin, but he's a 2nd line center IMO and probably wont be more then that. I dont look at him as a guy who can lead The Sens... Karlsson is that kid though, I think he's the next true captain in Ottawa and things will hinge on him.

Spezza's at his best when he has the time and space needed to make something happen, the Pens' have been doing a good job of denying him that. Clouston needs to mix up the lines, look what Kovalev did in making more room for Fisher this year.

If he carries the puck into the zone and has no play to make the puck should be going on net or shot in deep and we go in on the forecheck. He has to stop with the blind drop pass.

Flo The Action wrote:

N4L wrote:Spezza's down time is when games matter or games get hard. That's the difference. Kovalev, like it or not has had some great playoffs and carried teams a lot further then they should have gone, be it just making the playoffs or winning a round or two. Hell, he had 21 points in the playoffs when he won the cup with NYR. The guy has always someone managed to get the job done when it matters. Spezza always finds a way to lose, or at least the teams he is one does.

Price tag aside, this is the guy that the players look to for a jump or something to build on, he isnt a leader, but he has to lead. Having a guy like that on your team kills momentum or spirits just as quickly as a bad goal will.

There is no way I would build a team around Spezza and once Alfi is gone, that's exactly what will happen. Also, Spezza having an NTC would be deadly to this organization IMO looking at how things are right now, very little character and if he ever asked for a trade, Murray and The Sens would be SOL.

kovalev is but a shadow of his former self, in complete decline in the last 3 years. very bad move by ottawa. would of rather signed cammalleri or gionta to thos long contracts then this. at least cam would of scored and gionta is a (short) warrior. instead we got the habs trash on it's way out.

I dont disagree with that in the least, but point being is Spezza is dead in his prime and there wont be any more improving or learning going on in temrs of his overall game. This is the Spezza that will continue with his career, maybe he shows something different in the next two games but I wouldnt be on it. It's almost at the point where I can say "I told ya so" not there yet, but close.

Hoags wrote:Spezza's at his best when he has the time and space needed to make something happen, the Pens' have been doing a good job of denying him that. Clouston needs to mix up the lines, look what Kovalev did in making more room for Fisher this year.

If he carries the puck into the zone and has no play to make the puck should be going on net or shot in deep and we go in on the forecheck. He has to stop with the blind drop pass.

Doesnt happen in the playoffs and the best players find a way to get it done. I dont see how anyone can defend Spezza right now. He's showing what a lot of people believe he is.

N4L wrote:
I love Regin, but he's a 2nd line center IMO and probably wont be more then that. I dont look at him as a guy who can lead The Sens... Karlsson is that kid though, I think he's the next true captain in Ottawa and things will hinge on him.

Doesn't matter is he's a 2nd liner in the regular season though, Regin's clutch. If he's centering a line behind Spezza in 3 years, then at least teams will have another threat to look after instead of Mike Fisher.

SpezDispenser wrote:Don't worry, in 3 years Peter Regin will take his rightful position when Alfie retires. I've seen it in this kid for almost 3 years now and he hasn't done a thing to make me think otherwise. When he was cold I wanted him to go down to Bingo to get hot again - that's how important he is.

Quote me on this in 3 years. Regin is the next Alfie.

next to karlsson he's my favourite youth. i'm almost even more blown away than by karlsson because i knew karlsson was gonna be good one day. regin has blown me away at times.

foligno on the other hand hasn't impressed me much this year. low production and his main move this year is falling down. i sometimes wonder where his canter of gravity is. please trade.

If Spezza is here in 3 years the team will be rebuilding perhaps into 2020. Not even kidding.

Having Spezza here would garentee 14-18 place finishes for years to come. That's what happend in Calgary and right now they have no clue what way they should go.