GAME 4 - 2010 Stanley Cup GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators (1) @ Pittsburgh Penguins (2), Tuesday Apr. 20, 2010 - 7:00PM EST.

Big Ev wrote:You can't call anyone a loser in a TEAM SPORT...you can call the team a loser, but 1 guy can't win a Cup by himself, therefore why should he be labeled a loser...was Roenick a loser? Is Tkachuk a loser? etc...

I'm not going to argue thsi at lenght, because it's claer you won't change your mind about the guy, but it's still a little harsh to call they guy a proven loser...

Spezza worked on his overall game this year and it wouldn't surprise me if he got 90 points next year, just like Lecavalier did a year after working on his defensive game

Both won the World Cup in 96. Lecaliver has a cup and a world cup as well.

Spezza has never ever been on a winning team. It is a team sport but in a team sport one guy can defently drag a team down, tonight you saw it. It's not a coincidence that he plays on teams that end up losing.

Spezza isnt a leader, he isnt a clutch player, he folds when things get tough, and he isnt maturing as a player like you suggest, it was clear in this series, painfully clear.

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:You can't call anyone a loser in a TEAM SPORT...you can call the team a loser, but 1 guy can't win a Cup by himself, therefore why should he be labeled a loser...was Roenick a loser? Is Tkachuk a loser? etc...

I'm not going to argue thsi at lenght, because it's claer you won't change your mind about the guy, but it's still a little harsh to call they guy a proven loser...

Spezza worked on his overall game this year and it wouldn't surprise me if he got 90 points next year, just like Lecavalier did a year after working on his defensive game

Both won the World Cup in 96. Lecaliver has a cup and a world cup as well.

Spezza has never ever been on a winning team. It is a team sport but in a team sport one guy can defently drag a team down, tonight you saw it. It's not a coincidence that he plays on teams that end up losing.

Spezza isnt a leader, he isnt a clutch player, he folds when things get tough, and he isnt maturing as a player like you suggest, it was clear in this series, painfully clear.

I could care less about World Cup Wins, if Spezza was on the Olympic team this past February, they still would have won.

SensGal wrote:

N4L wrote:

SensGal wrote:Ok, Spezza isn't useless without him. He played ridiculously well after he came back from injury. He's got what it takes, just doesn't seem to use that now. I'm not sure what's up. But again, he's young, and so is michalek and regin. And lots of those guys.

If we lose thrusday I will be super super happy with how the Sens played this year. Went further than anyone expected/predicted and thats amazing. Some of the younger guys seem to really be great and up and coming. We have some really great looking prospects coming up too. So YAY!

2 months of good hockey in 3 years... AWESOME! Simply AWESOME. 7 million dollars per year and he plays one good month of hockey for 5 or 6 bad ones.

People who think Spezza has "what it takes" havnt watched him for 10 plus years. If there is anything that has been PROVEN, it's that he cant get it done. Spezza's compete level is comparable to a rookie coming into The NHL, that's being generous.

I will admit that he is not at all worth what we pay him. Thats for sure. But who knows what happens. Honestly, we've had a good run, and its not over just yet (It will probably be over soon, but not this second)!

It's over, Im not gonna kid myself or BS anyone else.

Spezza isnt maturing and it's a huge problem. I honestly dont see how Murray stands pat and just lets Spezza do what ever he wants on the ice. When things matter he does what he wants, he doesnt get it, he never will.

People give it up, Spezza isnt a guy this team should be built around.

Big Ev wrote:

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:You can't call anyone a loser in a TEAM SPORT...you can call the team a loser, but 1 guy can't win a Cup by himself, therefore why should he be labeled a loser...was Roenick a loser? Is Tkachuk a loser? etc...

I'm not going to argue thsi at lenght, because it's claer you won't change your mind about the guy, but it's still a little harsh to call they guy a proven loser...

Spezza worked on his overall game this year and it wouldn't surprise me if he got 90 points next year, just like Lecavalier did a year after working on his defensive game

Both won the World Cup in 96. Lecaliver has a cup and a world cup as well.

Spezza has never ever been on a winning team. It is a team sport but in a team sport one guy can defently drag a team down, tonight you saw it. It's not a coincidence that he plays on teams that end up losing.

Spezza isnt a leader, he isnt a clutch player, he folds when things get tough, and he isnt maturing as a player like you suggest, it was clear in this series, painfully clear.

I could care less about World Cup Wins, if Spezza was on the Olympic team this past February, they still would have won.

Haha ok, you could care less, that makes it irrelivant how? Spezza has never been on a team since he was 15 years old that has won anything, speaks volumns of epic levels. I dont think there is a guy in The NHL who can claim that.

I am pretty much 99.999999% sure its over. But ya never know. Stranger things have happened.

I'm not being someone who stops cheering because we probably won't win it all or what not. I'm gonna stay happy, cheery, and be a positive fan, who is excited for what next year will bring. We did better than anyone predicted this year, and who can't be happy for that. There are obvious holes in our team, but there are also some great things about our team too.

I'm not going to say I'd be upset with Spezza leaving though.

i think spezza is the least of our problems

we should just forfeit the next game to save the refs the trouble.

111519 wrote:i think spezza is the least of our problems

we should just forfeit the next game to save the refs the trouble.

I know you have defended him but he is absolutely a huge problem moving forward.

Big Ev wrote:I could care less about World Cup Wins, if Spezza was on the Olympic team this past February, they still would have won.

What's a World Cup?

The World Cup of hockey, used to be The Canada cup. You know Lemieux to Gretzky? That was essentially the world cup of hockey.

I thought you were gonna trust Murray no matter what

Anyways, I agree. The guy is not a leader and probably never will be. At least not soon enough for the Sens to wait for that.
The compete level of our other 11 forwards tonight was all better than our most payed player, pretty sad really.
And Karlsson is just too young and small to face this team. They're just too good I don't see a team in the East that will beat them this year. Crosby right now is top 5 player of all time.

N4L wrote:The World Cup of hockey, used to be The Canada cup. You know Lemieux to Gretzky? That was essentially the world cup of hockey.

The Loser Cup? That's nothing. I doubt they even discuss it ever again.

EDIT: Unless I'm wrong, if I am I apologize. There's the loser Cup that Heatley dominates every year. The one where he, Spezza, Fisher and Phillips played for last year I think it was. Is that it?

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:You can't call anyone a loser in a TEAM SPORT...you can call the team a loser, but 1 guy can't win a Cup by himself, therefore why should he be labeled a loser...was Roenick a loser? Is Tkachuk a loser? etc...

I'm not going to argue thsi at lenght, because it's claer you won't change your mind about the guy, but it's still a little harsh to call they guy a proven loser...

Spezza worked on his overall game this year and it wouldn't surprise me if he got 90 points next year, just like Lecavalier did a year after working on his defensive game

Both won the World Cup in 96. Lecaliver has a cup and a world cup as well.

Spezza has never ever been on a winning team. It is a team sport but in a team sport one guy can defently drag a team down, tonight you saw it. It's not a coincidence that he plays on teams that end up losing.

Spezza isnt a leader, he isnt a clutch player, he folds when things get tough, and he isnt maturing as a player like you suggest, it was clear in this series, painfully clear.

I could care less about World Cup Wins, if Spezza was on the Olympic team this past February, they still would have won.

Haha ok, you could care less, that makes it irrelivant how? Spezza has never been on a team since he was 15 years old that has won anything, speaks volumns of epic levels. I dont think there is a guy in The NHL who can claim that.

Actually I would argue that there is hundreds of guys that can claim that.

Don't really care much for arguing about Spezza's merit, but the team hasn't been losing because of Spezza. You can say they haven't been winning because of Spezza, because your best players need to lead for the team to win and right now they aren't.

Peter Regin, Neil and Ruutu have been the best Sens by far in this series. Alfie is hurt, fine, but Fisher, Spezza, and Philchenkov are disappearing at lengths.

The refing isn't helping matters, but the guys that are supposed to be the best on this team aren't right now and thats a larger problem. It isn't Spezza the lone issue, by far.

Whatever, there's no use continually moaning about Spezza right now. If Murray feels something has to be done, it'll be done. Until then, what can we do?

marakh wrote:I thought you were gonna trust Murray no matter what

Anyways, I agree. The guy is not a leader and probably never will be. At least not soon enough for the Sens to wait for that.
The compete level of our other 11 forwards tonight was all better than our most payed player, pretty sad really.
And Karlsson is just too young and small to face this team. They're just too good I don't see a team in the East that will beat them this year. Crosby right now is top 5 player of all time.

Hahaha, I do trust Murray and I dont think he holds on to Spezza in hopes he turns into somethign resembling a go to guy. I could be wrong though but I would be very dissapointed if Spezza was here after July 1 because I would honeslty have no hope for The Sens now or moving forward, which sucks to say.

Karlsson is going to be great and he's had an OK playoff, but he is too young, too small, too inexpeirenced to be playing the big mins.

Crosby, they guy is amazing, if he was playing in the 80's he would be putting up more points then Wayne.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:The World Cup of hockey, used to be The Canada cup. You know Lemieux to Gretzky? That was essentially the world cup of hockey.

The Loser Cup? That's nothing. I doubt they even discuss it ever again.

EDIT: Unless I'm wrong, if I am I apologize. There's the loser Cup that Heatley dominates every year. The one where he, Spezza, Fisher and Phillips played for last year I think it was. Is that it?

That's the World Championships.

M_Christopher wrote:

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:You can't call anyone a loser in a TEAM SPORT...you can call the team a loser, but 1 guy can't win a Cup by himself, therefore why should he be labeled a loser...was Roenick a loser? Is Tkachuk a loser? etc...

I'm not going to argue thsi at lenght, because it's claer you won't change your mind about the guy, but it's still a little harsh to call they guy a proven loser...

Spezza worked on his overall game this year and it wouldn't surprise me if he got 90 points next year, just like Lecavalier did a year after working on his defensive game

Both won the World Cup in 96. Lecaliver has a cup and a world cup as well.

Spezza has never ever been on a winning team. It is a team sport but in a team sport one guy can defently drag a team down, tonight you saw it. It's not a coincidence that he plays on teams that end up losing.

Spezza isnt a leader, he isnt a clutch player, he folds when things get tough, and he isnt maturing as a player like you suggest, it was clear in this series, painfully clear.

I could care less about World Cup Wins, if Spezza was on the Olympic team this past February, they still would have won.

Haha ok, you could care less, that makes it irrelivant how? Spezza has never been on a team since he was 15 years old that has won anything, speaks volumns of epic levels. I dont think there is a guy in The NHL who can claim that.

Actually I would argue that there is hundreds of guys that can claim that.

Don't really care much for arguing about Spezza's merit, but the team hasn't been losing because of Spezza. You can say they haven't been winning because of Spezza, because your best players need to lead for the team to win and right now they aren't.

Peter Regin, Neil and Ruutu have been the best Sens by far in this series. Alfie is hurt, fine, but Fisher, Spezza, and Philchenkov are disappearing at lengths.

The refing isn't helping matters, but the guys that are supposed to be the best on this team aren't right now and thats a larger problem. It isn't Spezza the lone issue, by far.

You're 49 million dollar center playing the way he did and 3 dud playoff series in a row, with no signs of him improving is absolutely a huge problem.

What happend tonight on that second goal was the turning point in that game and any chance The Sens had of winning that game, let alone the series was crushed by Spezza and his mornic plays that EVERYONE SAW COMING LAST GAME. Lets go back to to what we said after game 3. "If Spezza keeps doing that The Pens are going to burry The Sens. The Pens are jsut waiting for it".

SpezDispenser wrote:Whatever, there's no use continually moaning about Spezza right now. If Murray feels something has to be done, it'll be done. Until then, what can we do?

Exactly, just keep the faith for game 5, and beyond if the Sens win.

After that take comfort that the team exceeded expectations and there is some huge boost coming to the team in the next couple years.

Peter Regin has been phenominal this year, Erik Karlsson is progressing so well and Zack Smith has been a warrior in his limited appearances.

Cowan, and Wiercioch aren't to far away from making an impact. Petersson and Silfverberg have taken key roles with their swedish clubs and looking to be a year away from potentially joing the NHL club.

Guys like Hoffman, Gryba, Caporusso and Grant are developing well and are wildcards.

And Lehner, he's on his way for 11/12 and he's got all the tools to be the franchise goalie this team has never had.

M_Christopher wrote:

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:You can't call anyone a loser in a TEAM SPORT...you can call the team a loser, but 1 guy can't win a Cup by himself, therefore why should he be labeled a loser...was Roenick a loser? Is Tkachuk a loser? etc...

I'm not going to argue thsi at lenght, because it's claer you won't change your mind about the guy, but it's still a little harsh to call they guy a proven loser...

Spezza worked on his overall game this year and it wouldn't surprise me if he got 90 points next year, just like Lecavalier did a year after working on his defensive game

Both won the World Cup in 96. Lecaliver has a cup and a world cup as well.

Spezza has never ever been on a winning team. It is a team sport but in a team sport one guy can defently drag a team down, tonight you saw it. It's not a coincidence that he plays on teams that end up losing.

Spezza isnt a leader, he isnt a clutch player, he folds when things get tough, and he isnt maturing as a player like you suggest, it was clear in this series, painfully clear.

I could care less about World Cup Wins, if Spezza was on the Olympic team this past February, they still would have won.

Haha ok, you could care less, that makes it irrelivant how? Spezza has never been on a team since he was 15 years old that has won anything, speaks volumns of epic levels. I dont think there is a guy in The NHL who can claim that.

Actually I would argue that there is hundreds of guys that can claim that.

Don't really care much for arguing about Spezza's merit, but the team hasn't been losing because of Spezza. You can say they haven't been winning because of Spezza, because your best players need to lead for the team to win and right now they aren't.

Peter Regin, Neil and Ruutu have been the best Sens by far in this series. Alfie is hurt, fine, but Fisher, Spezza, and Philchenkov are disappearing at lengths.

The refing isn't helping matters, but the guys that are supposed to be the best on this team aren't right now and thats a larger problem. It isn't Spezza the lone issue, by far.

The issue is they are better, they have the 2 most impact centers in the game, are more experienced overall (our experience on D is pathetic) and have a better coaching staff.
Pretty fast to sum up, so yeah, I think we can definitely talk aobut Spezza's future with the team.