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PublicationsFor the sake of argument. Let's say Ward is not quite as good as Volchenkov but you use Volchenkov to get a forward that's better than 9 of our existing forwards. Do we instantly become a better team overall?
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aaron ward on waivers
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SensGirl11
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Urkie
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Message [Page 4 of 11]
47 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:34 pm
Cap'n Clutch
Co-Founder
SeawaySensFan wrote:For the sake of argument. Let's say Ward is not quite as good as Volchenkov but you use Volchenkov to get a forward that's better than 9 of our existing forwards. Do we instantly become a better team overall?
- Spoiler:
- Yes
48 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:35 pm
Guest
Guest
Yes. A Train isnt worth the money he will or has asked for. Ward is a good short term replacement for a year or two while Ottawa builds that young blueline and could in fact be a nice compliment to them showing them the ropes.
Ward for free, anytime.
Ward for free, anytime.
49 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:36 pm
Cap'n Clutch
Co-Founder
N4L wrote:Yes. A Train isnt worth the money he will or has asked for. Ward is a good short term replacement for a year or two while Ottawa builds that young blueline and could in fact be a nice compliment to them showing them the ropes.
Ward for free, anytime.
You ruined my spoiler.
_________________
"A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world."
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50 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:38 pm
asq2
All-Star
SeawaySensFan wrote:For the sake of argument. Let's say Ward is not quite as good as Volchenkov but you use Volchenkov to get a forward that's better than 9 of our existing forwards. Do we instantly become a better team overall?
Volchenkov is an up-coming UFA. He's not going to get a player better than one of Spezza, Michalek, Alfredsson or Fisher.
The point is moot anyway because Aaron Ward is not Anton Volchenkov.
51 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:39 pm
asq2
All-Star
N4L wrote:asq2 wrote:Aaron Ward just isn't worth it. If Volchenkov moves, Ward cannot be his replacement. You have to replace him with someone of a similar or greater calibre if you want to do anything.
Are you kidding? Short term Ward is on the exact same level as A Train, probably a better overall player too. Hes 36, so what? you are getting him for free and can deal A Train for some serious assets.
Right, he's better than our top-pairing defenceman and that's why he's being waived by the last-place team in the league.
You under-rate Volchenkov so much it's absolutely ridiculous.
52 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:43 pm
SeawaySensFan
Franchise Player
asq2 wrote:SeawaySensFan wrote:For the sake of argument. Let's say Ward is not quite as good as Volchenkov but you use Volchenkov to get a forward that's better than 9 of our existing forwards. Do we instantly become a better team overall?
Volchenkov is an up-coming UFA. He's not going to get a player better than one of Spezza, Michalek, Alfredsson or Fisher.
The point is moot anyway because Aaron Ward is not Anton Volchenkov.
We're headed for a surplus of shut-down defensemen and we lack consistency and production up front. Could be the last stop for the A-Train.
53 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:43 pm
Guest
Guest
asq2 wrote:N4L wrote:asq2 wrote:Aaron Ward just isn't worth it. If Volchenkov moves, Ward cannot be his replacement. You have to replace him with someone of a similar or greater calibre if you want to do anything.
Are you kidding? Short term Ward is on the exact same level as A Train, probably a better overall player too. Hes 36, so what? you are getting him for free and can deal A Train for some serious assets.
Right, he's better than our top-pairing defenceman and that's why he's being waived by the last-place team in the league.
You under-rate Volchenkov so much it's absolutely ridiculous.
Key word, OUR. A Train hits and block shots with the best of them, thats where it ends. He isnt a stud defensivly, he has minimal offensive upside. I love what he does for the team but I am also realistic.
Ward was a huge part of that Boston blueline last year and he helped turn that team into a power house, his skills have not diminshed so much in the last 6 months that he isnt an asset on a blueline.
Would I rather have A Train then Ward, absolutely, would I rather have A Train at 4 million dollars long term then Ward on some one year contracts, nope. Ward is a 3 time cup winner, knows how to win, has years of expierence, and is still an effective player. A Train is going to get too much money for what he brings and if the plan is to trade him for some other assets then I agree with it 100%.
54 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:47 pm
asq2
All-Star
OK, I don't want to even address the idea that Volchenkov isn't a stud defensively, but let's play along with the idea that, as you state, Ward > Volchenkov.
Carolina, the worst team in the league, is not only getting rid of the guy, they're putting this stud of a defenceman on waivers, presumably on re-entry waivers, absorbing half of his cap-hit while getting nothing in return.
Meanwhile, teams are going to let this happen, and then give up a top-4 forward for an inferior defenceman while absorbing his entire cap-hit.
Yeah, the logic behind this isn't absurd at all. There's definitely no questioning any of the premises or the conclusion of this argument.
EDIT: FFS you make Volchenkov sound like Garnett ****ing Exelby.
Carolina, the worst team in the league, is not only getting rid of the guy, they're putting this stud of a defenceman on waivers, presumably on re-entry waivers, absorbing half of his cap-hit while getting nothing in return.
Meanwhile, teams are going to let this happen, and then give up a top-4 forward for an inferior defenceman while absorbing his entire cap-hit.
Yeah, the logic behind this isn't absurd at all. There's definitely no questioning any of the premises or the conclusion of this argument.
EDIT: FFS you make Volchenkov sound like Garnett ****ing Exelby.
Last edited by asq2 on Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
55 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:50 pm
SeawaySensFan
Franchise Player
asq2 wrote:OK, I don't want to even address the idea that Volchenkov isn't a stud defensively, but let's play along with the idea that, as you state, Ward > Volchenkov.
Carolina, the worst team in the league, is not only getting rid of the guy, they're putting this stud of a defenceman on waivers, presumably on re-entry waivers, absorbing half of his cap-hit while getting nothing in return.
Meanwhile, teams are going to let this happen, and then give up a top-4 forward for an inferior defenceman while absorbing his entire cap-hit.
Yeah, the logic behind this isn't absurd at all. There's definitely no questioning the any of the premises or the conclusion of this argument.
EDIT: FFS you make Volchenkov sound like Garnett ****ing Exelby.
That's the NHL for ya! Wacky.
56 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:53 pm
Guest
Guest
asq2 wrote:OK, I don't want to even address the idea that Volchenkov isn't a stud defensively, but let's play along with the idea that, as you state, Ward > Volchenkov.
Carolina, the worst team in the league, is not only getting rid of the guy, they're putting this stud of a defenceman on waivers, presumably on re-entry waivers, absorbing half of his cap-hit while getting nothing in return.
Meanwhile, teams are going to let this happen, and then give up a top-4 forward for an inferior defenceman while absorbing his entire cap-hit.
Yeah, the logic behind this isn't absurd at all. There's definitely no questioning the any of the premises or the conclusion of this argument.
Whoa whoa, where did I say that? Please quote me.
A Train could very well be on his way out and Murray might have already kicked the tires, Ward is an ideal short term replacement for A Train.
Carolina is putting him on waivers because he is abviously tough to trade at that salary and any team giving up an asset for him. Carolina is team that is going to go through the rebuild as well. You think Whitney last the year there as well? No shot.
Ward is a good NHL D man that, paired with Phillips will be a very effective pair. Again, Ward is 100% capable of being a shut down D man in The NHL still and last year proves that.
As for A Train, he isnt a stud, he's a good D man that is very effective in what he does. He is not much different the Komiserek, a bit more offensive upside.
Dont be putting words in my mouth.
57 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:04 pm
LeCaptain
All-Star
Didn't you just say in the last page that Ward was probably a better overall D-man?
58 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:05 pm
asq2
All-Star
N4L wrote:Whoa whoa, where did I say that? Please quote me.
Here you say Ward is as good as Volchenkov, and probably a better player:
N4L wrote:Are you kidding? Short term Ward is on the exact same level as A Train, probably a better overall player too. Hes 36, so what?
You mention salaries, but that's irrelevant since their salary situations are exactly the same. Volchenkov is also a UFA and therefore a rental piece, as is Ward. Thus, age is largely irrelevant as well in the current context of dealing Volchenkov. Anyway, you tell me that I over-rate the importance of age, so I assume that you don't give it too much credence.
You continuously mention that Ward is an adequate and appropriate replacement for Volchenkov, and yet a contending team is not even going to claim Ward off waivers but will be willing to give up "serious assets" for Volchenkov.
So, the syllogism you've constructed is:
Ward and Volchenkov are of the same calibre, Ward probably even greater. Ottawa will be able to claim Ward off of re-entry waivers, also implying that other teams are not interested in Ward. Teams are interested in Volchenkov and will give up serious assets for him, even though there is no difference between he and Ward in salary situation nor calibre. We will be able to move Volchenkov for serious assets while picking up Ward for free. Thus, we can profit from this move.
Frankly, I think that's incredibly absurd.
59 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:12 pm
Guest
Guest
asq2 wrote:N4L wrote:Whoa whoa, where did I say that? Please quote me.
Here you say Ward is as good as Volchenkov, and probably a better player:N4L wrote:Are you kidding? Short term Ward is on the exact same level as A Train, probably a better overall player too. Hes 36, so what?
You mention salaries, but that's irrelevant since their salary situations are exactly the same. Volchenkov is also a UFA and therefore a rental piece, as is Ward. Thus, age is largely irrelevant as well in the current context of dealing Volchenkov. Anyway, you tell me that I over-rate the importance of age, so I assume that you don't give it too much credence.
You continuously mention that Ward is an adequate and appropriate replacement for Volchenkov, and yet a contending team is not even going to claim Ward off waivers but will be willing to give up "serious assets" for Volchenkov.
So, the syllogism you've constructed is:
Ward and Volchenkov are of the same calibre, Ward probably even greater. Ottawa will be able to claim Ward off of re-entry waivers, also implying that other teams are not interested in Ward. Teams are interested in Volchenkov and will give up serious assets for him, even though there is no difference between he and Ward in salary situation nor calibre. We will be able to move Volchenkov for serious assets while picking up Ward for free. Thus, we can profit from this move.
Frankly, I think that's incredibly absurd.
As an overall player with his expierence and not being at the very tail end of his carreer, he might be. In terms of his value being higher, no shot. Short term with a young defense like Ottawa has, I think he's a solid fit.
Ward has a pedagree of winning and is still a good D man. You over value Sens players waaaaaay too much.
60 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:12 pm
Urkie
Sophomore
N4L wrote:Whoa whoa, where did I say that? Please quote me.
A Train could very well be on his way out and Murray might have already kicked the tires, Ward is an ideal short term replacement for A Train.
Carolina is putting him on waivers because he is abviously tough to trade at that salary and any team giving up an asset for him. Carolina is team that is going to go through the rebuild as well. You think Whitney last the year there as well? No shot.
Ward is a good NHL D man that, paired with Phillips will be a very effective pair. Again, Ward is 100% capable of being a shut down D man in The NHL still and last year proves that.
As for A Train, he isnt a stud, he's a good D man that is very effective in what he does. He is not much different the Komiserek, a bit more offensive upside.
Dont be putting words in my mouth.
I find your overall scenario kind of hard to believe.
First of all, there's got to be a reason we can get Ward for free from the worst team in the league. It shows his game isn't the same as it used to be and that no one wants him. I guarantee you he wouldn't be nearly as effective as A Train.
Then you say we are going to trade A Train for some offensive help? Earlier in the year you said we need a better d corps. Subtracting A Train and adding Ward definitely doesn't do that and it especially doesn't do it in the long term.
61 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:14 pm
asq2
All-Star
N4L wrote:Carolina is putting him on waivers because he is abviously tough to trade at that salary and any team giving up an asset for him. Carolina is team that is going to go through the rebuild as well. You think Whitney last the year there as well? No shot.
This whole argument just seems so bizarre to me. Whitney isn't going to leave because they want to get rid of him at all costs, it's because he has value and can get assets back for the rebuilding process. They're not getting anything for Ward: in fact, if they put him on re-entry they'll end up eating half his salary.
You're also simultaneously suggesting that Carolina is getting rid of Ward because they're rebuilding and suggesting that Ward would be a valuable part of our rebuild.
If we accept that Volchenkov and Ward are equal in calibre, and note that both are the exact same in terms of salary and as rentals, and note your suggestion of Chicago, a contending team, as a destination for Volchenkov, then it makes absolutely no sense for a team like Chicago to not even take Ward for free, but give up Beach or Sharp for Volchenkov.
This suggests, in my opinion, that Volchenkov and Ward are not equal.
62 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:20 pm
SeawaySensFan
Franchise Player
Why is everyone arguing based on a tweet from that bird-faced fool, McKenzie? 
63 Re: aaron ward on waivers Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:21 pm
Guest
Guest
Ward was part of the best defense in The East last year and was dealt for salary cap reason's. Who is his partner in Carolina? Their defense is awful and Ward isnt the guy to carry a blue, but as a 3, 4 pairing with Phillips, defently a solid guy to have there.
People really need to pay attention to the players themselves and not the circumstances that surround them.
I never said we were going to trade A Train for defensive help but if he could bring in Campbell, absolutely. I put out a lot of different scenario's.
Short term, I think Ward could add a little more then A Train with the prospects coming up and his expierence. If A Train were to take a long term contract at like 3 mil, that would be al ittle different.
People in Ottawa are way too guilty of looking at their own players and think they are better then everyone elses... Ward and A Train are very comparable at this point in time. Ward was amazing for Boston last year, better then A Train was for us if you want to compare the two.
People really need to pay attention to the players themselves and not the circumstances that surround them.
I never said we were going to trade A Train for defensive help but if he could bring in Campbell, absolutely. I put out a lot of different scenario's.
Short term, I think Ward could add a little more then A Train with the prospects coming up and his expierence. If A Train were to take a long term contract at like 3 mil, that would be al ittle different.
People in Ottawa are way too guilty of looking at their own players and think they are better then everyone elses... Ward and A Train are very comparable at this point in time. Ward was amazing for Boston last year, better then A Train was for us if you want to compare the two.
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