Should the A-Train make a one way trip out of town?

Cap'n Clutch

Cap'n Clutch

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Registration date : 2008-07-31

We all know the value of Volchenkov and what he brings to the table as Sens fans. What is that worth? Is it worth more to the Senators as a member of our Defense core or as a trade-able asset?

Lets be honest here. Based on the Senators performance so far this season it does not look like a playoff bound team. Sure we currently hold down a playoff spot with games in hand but, based on our winning percentage spread over the full season we can expect to miss the playoffs this year unless there is a bit of a turn around over then next month or two. Even if we make the playoffs does anyone really believe we'll make some noise this season?

I can't tell you what will happen and can only give you my opinion on the situation. I would personally hate to see Volchenkov go but he is a very valuable asset that could bring back pieces that are sorely missed in the prospect cupboard. There is very little in the way of true top end first line forward talent in the Senators system right now and I believe that a playoff team, looking for that last key piece, would be willing to give that up for a shot this year in a trade for Volchenkov.

Assuming we hold onto Volchenkov he will likely be signed for at least 4 years for somewhere around 4 Million per season. That cap hit plus his roster spot will handcuff the Senators somewhat. Our D with Volchenkov.

Phillips - Volchenkov

Kuba - Karlsson

Cowen - Carkner

What do we do with Lee, Campoli & Picard. You can make Lee or Carkner your 7th D but then you still have Campoli and Picard to deal with. Then in a couple years you'll also have Wiercioch looking for a roster spot. You could manage by not re-signing Kuba I suppose.

Now if you move Volchenkov and get that Blue chip forward you save a big chunk on the Cap and you've got a guy that could come in either next season or the season after and step right into the top 6 without missing a beat most likely. Then you have a D that looks more like this or some variation of this.

Kuba - Karlsson

Phillips - Campoli/Picard

Cowen - Lee

7th D - Carkner

In this scenario you only have one D man to decide on whether to trade or walk away from. Will it be Picard or Campoli? You also have a very good and very cheap D core for the next few years. Just enough time to make a real run at the Cup.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:57 am by **SensGirl11** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:57 am by **SensGirl11**

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I just wrote what a lot of people were thinking. It's a hot topic right now don't you think?

Fair enough, I just can't imagine trading him. But, I can see where you're coming from and what the value of him could be. I think we should keep him though, so that's my vote. Should the A-Train make a one way trip out of town? - Page 2 54934

Should the A-Train make a one way trip out of town? - Page 2 54934

Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:27 pm by **Riprock** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:27 pm by **Riprock**

His value will be determined by desperation, need and potential bidding war. You really wouldn't want to be the team that missed out on him only to have to play against him in a 7 game series.

While we know he is not going to score you any goals, he is an all-around solid player. He rarely makes defensive gaffs and he is obviously known for devastating, game changing hits and laying his body on the line to prevent goals. Thisi s a guy that many teams would love as a rental, cause if the team goes far, he will take quite a beating.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:51 pm by **SensHulk** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:51 pm by **SensHulk**

My vote is a definitive NO. We don't have another defenceman laying any sort of physical game that Volchie does. Simply put, he brings elements that no other defenceman on our team brings...maybe Carkner but he'll be bottom 2 defenceman for a while. Most of the others bring the same game: no physicality, no offense, and in the case of campoli and picard, plenty of give-a-aways. Lets get rid of these guys somehow....

Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:55 pm by **Cap'n Clutch** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:55 pm by **Cap'n Clutch**

The thing is by the time Ottawa is strong enough to make a legitimate run for the Cup A-Train will no longer be needed with guys like Weircioch, Karlsson and Cowen rounding out an impressive D core. Why not get something for A-Train now to build for the future?

Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:58 pm by **Riprock** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:58 pm by **Riprock**

Of course you don't want him to go, and that's understandable, but the reality is, it might have to happen. It would be painful because he is a home-grown player that fans respect. But there has to be a limit as to how much you pay guys who are one-dimensional players (like Phillips). You might love these guys, but if you're paying that much for defenceman, I'd rather have Weber and Burns for that much (though they are steals for that price right now).

Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:02 pm by **SensGirl11** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:02 pm by **SensGirl11**

Michallica wrote:My vote is a definitive NO. We don't have another defenceman laying any sort of physical game that Volchie does. Simply put, he brings elements that no other defenceman on our team brings...maybe Carkner but he'll be bottom 2 defenceman for a while. Most of the others bring the same game: no physicality, no offense, and in the case of campoli and picard, plenty of give-a-aways. Lets get rid of these guys somehow....

We'll trade Picard for a bag of popcorn. Campoli, I don't know what to do with him anymore, I'm very sad about the way things have been going with him this season, my frustration is boiling over with him too. Those 2 have to go, it's just silly. We're going nowhere this year with teh D we have. Volchenkov and Phillips, Lee and Carkner are the only D we have that are worth anything right now. I swear, I thought Campoli would have a breakout year this year, boy was I wrong.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:34 pm by **asq2** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:34 pm by **asq2**

Cap'n Clutch wrote:The thing is by the time Ottawa is strong enough to make a legitimate run for the Cup A-Train will no longer be needed with guys like Weircioch, Karlsson and Cowen rounding out an impressive D core. Why not get something for A-Train now to build for the future?

If you're going to do that, trade Alfredsson, Phillips, Kuba, even Fisher too.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:46 pm by **Cap'n Clutch** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:46 pm by **Cap'n Clutch**

asq2 wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:The thing is by the time Ottawa is strong enough to make a legitimate run for the Cup A-Train will no longer be needed with guys like Weircioch, Karlsson and Cowen rounding out an impressive D core. Why not get something for A-Train now to build for the future?

If you're going to do that, trade Alfredsson, Phillips, Kuba, even Fisher too.

I would agree with you there if we had 2 or 3 legitimate top six forwards that would come in and dominate once on the roster along with another top end D or two to make up for the loss of Phillips and Kuba as well of course. That's not the case so I don't really see your point.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:53 pm by **asq2** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:53 pm by **asq2**

My point is that by trading Volchenkov for prospects, we're signalling that we have no intention of competing with the names I just mentioned. Alfredsson will be retired, Phillips and Kuba will be in the twilight of their careers if not retired, and Fisher will be an old guy by the time Cowen, Karlsson, Wiercioch and Lehner are capable of being the core of a contending team.

It would be more efficient to do a full re-build and trade those guys for future pieces as well. It would especially be a slap in the face to Alfredsson to move the A-Train: you're telling him he'll be spending the last few seasons of his career on a team with no intentions of being anything other than a bottom feeder while the kids develop.

That may be what's best for the team in the long run, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to do that (ie move Volchenkov) because we owe it to Alfredsson.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:58 pm by **Riprock** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:58 pm by **Riprock**

Wouldn't moving Kelly + also send the same message though? He is and has been a 'key' piece of this team for years now. You cannot lose someone that has been a part of the team from day one of their career and not expect them to be missed, but you have to move on sometimes in the cap era of the NHL. I don't like losing Volchy as much as the next guy, but push come to shove, money is the factor and if we cannot afford to keep him at the expense of creating a better balanced team, then you have to explore trading him. Better to get a return then the alternative (Chara).

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:04 pm by **Cap'n Clutch** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:04 pm by **Cap'n Clutch**

asq2 wrote:My point is that by trading Volchenkov for prospects, we're signalling that we have no intention of competing with the names I just mentioned. Alfredsson will be retired, Phillips and Kuba will be in the twilight of their careers if not retired, and Fisher will be an old guy by the time Cowen, Karlsson, Wiercioch and Lehner are capable of being the core of a contending team.

It would be more efficient to do a full re-build and trade those guys for future pieces as well. It would especially be a slap in the face to Alfredsson to move the A-Train: you're telling him he'll be spending the last few seasons of his career on a team with no intentions of being anything other than a bottom feeder while the kids develop.

That may be what's best for the team in the long run, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to do that (ie move Volchenkov) because we owe it to Alfredsson.

So are you suggesting Murray pick up some FAs in the mean time in order to be contenders until those prospects are core players so Alfie has a shot at the cup?

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:07 pm by Guest · Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:07 pm by Guest

It's going to be circumstantial with A Train and it will come down to what is happening in Ottawa at the present time, what his demands are, and what they want to do with their roster.

If The Sens are out, A Train wants 3.5 plus (multi year) and they think Cowen is ready, then I dont see A Train being here next year. You dont trade him for the sake of trading him, you trade him because of what makes sense.

As for owing it to Alfi, we owe him a cup for sure, but a lot of teams owed it to a guy to win a cup but it just isnt possible in Ottawa. Alfi will not win a cup in Ottawa, doesnt mean you have to trade him. You need him here for a rebuild just as much as you would need him here for a cup run. Thus I dont buy the "you have to trad everyone to truly rebuild"

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:07 pm by **asq2** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:07 pm by **asq2**

Chris Kelly is a fourth line player earning $2.2 million. That's way above the price generally reserved for that role. Anyway, he's only been here since the lock-out.

Volchenkov is one of our top-pairing defenceman (I would say our number 1 this season) earning $2.5 million, which is way below the price generally reserved for that role. Even when we discuss $4 million, for the role he plays that's at best a fair salary for him.

While Kelly is entrenched in the team, he's significantly less of a key to our success.

I'm not particularly sure how moving Volchenkov creates a more balanced team, since defence is our worst attribute at the moment and he's one of only 3 top-4 calibre defencemen on the squad.

Unless, of course, you're talking about teams several years down the line, but then the same can equally be said of Alfredsson, Phillips, Kuba, Fisher, etc.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:09 pm by Guest · Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:09 pm by Guest

asq2 wrote:Chris Kelly is a fourth line player earning $2.2 million. That's way above the price generally reserved for that role. Anyway, he's only been here since the lock-out.

Volchenkov is one of our top-pairing defenceman (I would say our number 1 this season) earning $2.5 million, which is way below the price generally reserved for that role. Even when we discuss $4 million, for the role he plays that's at best a fair salary for him.

While Kelly is entrenched in the team, he's significantly less of a key to our success.

I'm not particularly sure how moving Volchenkov creates a more balanced team, since defence is our worst attribute at the moment and he's one of only 3 top-4 calibre defencemen on the squad.

Unless, of course, you're talking about teams several years down the line, but then the same can equally be said of Alfredsson, Phillips, Kuba, Fisher, etc.

No way a player like A Train should be making more then 3.5. The guy isnt a game changer, he's a solid number 3, 4 guy and should be paid as such. Just because he MIGHT be the number 1 in Ottawa doesnt make him a number 1 defenseman.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:11 pm by **Riprock** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:11 pm by **Riprock**

Having , let's say, 3.5 million to spend elsewhere, like a legitimate #1 dman, is much better than spending another 3.5 (like Phillips) on a one-dimensional player. If you had a defence of all Volchenkovs and Phillips, you could expect maybe 12 goals total from your defence. We need a Cambpell, Boyle, Bouwmeester, Weber, Phaneuf, Burns, Pronger, Chara...

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:12 pm by **asq2** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:12 pm by **asq2**

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

asq2 wrote:My point is that by trading Volchenkov for prospects, we're signalling that we have no intention of competing with the names I just mentioned. Alfredsson will be retired, Phillips and Kuba will be in the twilight of their careers if not retired, and Fisher will be an old guy by the time Cowen, Karlsson, Wiercioch and Lehner are capable of being the core of a contending team.

It would be more efficient to do a full re-build and trade those guys for future pieces as well. It would especially be a slap in the face to Alfredsson to move the A-Train: you're telling him he'll be spending the last few seasons of his career on a team with no intentions of being anything other than a bottom feeder while the kids develop.

That may be what's best for the team in the long run, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to do that (ie move Volchenkov) because we owe it to Alfredsson.

So are you suggesting Murray pick up some FAs in the mean time in order to be contenders until those prospects are core players so Alfie has a shot at the cup?

I'm suggesting that we not move Volchenkov. Partially it's because UFAs nowadays are becoming scarcer with these longer deals, and are all getting overpaid, so I don't see how to replace him that way.

I'm not suggesting that we move Karlsson for Kaberle and Elliott for Rafalski (not that that jives anymore, since Detroit's goaltending has been better of late) and Cowen for Niedermayer and Wiercioch for Ray Whitney, either. It's very, very unlikely that Alfredsson will win a Cup as a player on the Sens. But there's a huge difference between trying and intentionally being a bottom-feeder and re-building. He admitted himself that last season was probably the hardest for him in the NHL. Do you want to condemn him to three more years like that, in his final contract?

Now, moving Volchenkov on his own probably won't do that, but it's symbolic of differing attitudes. Certainly, moving Volchenkov isn't going to make us any better in the short-term.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:15 pm by **SensGirl11** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:15 pm by **SensGirl11**

N4L wrote:
As for owing it to Alfi, we owe him a cup for sure, but a lot of teams owed it to a guy to win a cup but it just isnt possible in Ottawa. Alfi will not win a cup in Ottawa, doesnt mean you have to trade him. You need him here for a rebuild just as much as you would need him here for a cup run. Thus I dont buy the "you have to trad everyone to truly rebuild"

Alfie will win a Cup with Ottawa, whether he be playing at the time or whether he be President at the time, he will win one here.

I still don't think we need to rebuild either, we need to rebuild our D though, that I do believe.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:16 pm by **asq2** · Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:16 pm by **asq2**

Dash wrote:Having , let's say, 3.5 million to spend elsewhere, like a legitimate #1 dman, is much better than spending another 3.5 (like Phillips) on a one-dimensional player. If you had a defence of all Volchenkovs and Phillips, you could expect maybe 12 goals total from your defence. We need a Cambpell, Boyle, Bouwmeester, Weber, Phaneuf, Burns, Pronger, Chara...

These guys don't just fall out of the sky. There's nobody out there that will magically sign with us with our cap space, especially since we'll be a dung team without him. Look no further than us signing an over-the-hill Kovalev to a $10 million deal for proof.

Anyway, Volchenkov is better than Phaneuf, better than Campbell and better than Burns this season.

He's contributed offensively, was an absolute behemoth on our penalty kill and makes our blue-line much more deep, given that we can then put an NHL-calibre defender in Kuba on the second pairing.

Dump Cheechoo in the minors, trade Kovalev away with incentives if need be. Again, if you're Chicago, do you let Keith walk because you've got Campbell?

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