Heatley's press conference

cas wrote:

hemlock wrote:

FireOnIce wrote:

hemlock wrote:

cas wrote:

hemlock wrote:Somewhere, Doug Wilson is smiling ear to ear. He now knows that his Dung lowball offer is the best Murray can hope for now. My bet is that within a week or so, we will be seeing a deal involving Cheechoo to the Sens.

I'm going to refute that.

-Bryan Murray is a dinosaur.
-He wants a Cup.
-He knows he likely won't have a better roster to work with in Ottawa for the foreseeable future.
-He knows he's one bad move, one bad season, one missed playoff or playoff tank job away from getting canned.
-Ottawa's best chance at a Cup is with Heatley on the roster. Him being a distraction is a far better risk to take than to pwn him off and get trinkets in return; sending a clear message to the current roster that he doesn't trust them to handle this themsleves.

Dany Heatley will be an Ottawa Senator this season, if only for the reason that Bryan Murray needs him to be.

Are you suggesting that Murray thinks this team right now could compete for a cup? Not with our defensive corps. We are a few years away from contending imo. Why keep Heatley around during that, to potentially taint our youth?

Hemlock, I'm not sure if it you that keeps saying it or if it is a bunch of posters, but I will jump down your throat just for the fun of it here.

I've said this many times om here: Heatley tainting our youth is not going to happen. We have Alfie, Phillips, Fisher, Neil, Donovan, maybe Volchenkov, maybe even Kovalev and Spezza looks to be ready as well from recent interviews to keep the youth on the right path. Say what you want about our past issues - true or not - but character players learn from past mistakes and will not let them repeat.

Giving into Heatley sends more of a message in my opinion to the youth and there is nothing the leaders can do about that as management is above them.

Prepare for Heatley on opening night and LOVE IT! He will play hard, the Olympics will see to that. Murray willl find the opportune time to trade Heatley and bring maximum return. (I should make that my new signature as I have been saying them long enough as well).

Trading Heatley isn't exactly giving in to him. It's now what's best for the team, not just Heatley. I agree that he'll come in and compete, until the Olympics, in fact I was one of the first to bring that point up when we discussed that remote (it seemed like it at the time) possibility that he could be back. After the Oylmpics, what happens is anyones guess. Personally, I think he'll make nice with the media and play only as hard as he has to until returning from Vancouver, or perhaps even the deadline, but after that, if he isn't moved, I don't think we'll see the same motivated player, but rather the selfish, lazy player that finished last season.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you for Murray getting "maximum" return, but maximum is relative, and what was the maximum return for Heatley 4 days ago, is probably more than it is today.

I'm fully prepared for Heatley to come back in October, but I sure as hell don't have to love it. Oh and about your signature: I hope for your sake that he isn't traded before opening night because you're going to get called out for it in a large way I suspect.

I have to say that this I agree with. You make a very good argument on why we should just get rid of him and get it over with, but I don't see that as a legitimate option.

Yes it rids us of the problem but it creates a whole slew of new ones:

a) The team feels slighted (even in the smallest way) despite being relieved. You have to know that players are fans too and that offense looks really good on paper. There's bound to be some kind of excitement about the new season if most of them are in fact (relatively) willing to accept Heatley back.

b) Murray doesn't stay true to his word and other GMs find out that all you have to do is wait long enough and Murray will break. This would be the longest last effect (assuming consummating a trade of poor value didn't cost him his job before the end of the season) and would have a far longer lasting effect on the organization.

c) We'd be a worse team on paper. Its up to the coaches and the players to make it work on the ice, but the GM has to give them the best chance he can. In this situation, it definitely sounds like that means Heatley being back in black.

Don't get me wrong, though; I see your point. I also think Heatley will come back after the Olympics (or maybe post deadline) and be the same lazy piece of dog Dung that he was all season last year.

As for his maximum return going down, I'd beg to differ. Murray has made it quite clear that he'll bring Heatley back and Heatley just made it quite clear that he'll report. That makes Murray's hand stronger and therefore brings Heatley's value up.

Just reporting brings his value up? What if he reports with a crappy attitude and even worse work ethic? I don't see how that benefits us at all. All he's done since this whole thing became public is make his own value worse, and made things harder for Murray. I think he feels a deal will be made and he could care less about helping the Senators get a decent return. That to me is a very dangerous.

Point a) is possible yes, but do we really know the feelings of the other players? Do you think they want to deal with the non-stop questions about Heatley that will surely come throughout the season? The excitement will be there whether it's Heatley, or a package in his place. New season, a full year under Clouston, a potential stud goaltender, and young guys who will have the chance to go to the next level (Foligno), should ensure that. Plus the chance to redeem themselves after missing the playoffs last season.

Point b) I assume you mean Murray saying he wouldn't take less value then going out and doing exactly that, right? I don't think he has a choice. Memories are long and even if Heatley stays here for this season and plays nice with everyone and excels on-ice, people other GM's know that eventually something will have to give. Heatley won't play nice forever, and thus Murray will have to make a move at some point, whenever that may be. He's essentially gone back on his word if he makes a deal for less than value, which is the only realistic thing that will happen here imo.

Point c) I, for one, don't care about what the team looks like on paper. Really, what that comes down to is the return, and right now, a package of Cheechoo, Erhoff and say Couture, looks better to me than Heatley and the potential for disaster he brings.

All very valid points. I'm not 100% commited to my side of the argument so I'll just leave it as: who the Diddle knows?

...not me. Anything can happen at this point and any move made could end up being the wrong one. For now, though, I'd say keep Heatley long enough to play well for a few weeks before deciding what the maximum return is.

again i would like to bring up the fact that yes healtey does look better then cheechoo but if you put cheechoo with spez you should be able to get 30 goals out of him and cheechoo will work his donkey off every night where we haev no idea white kind of attitude adn work ethic heatley will bring

cas wrote:All very valid points. I'm not 100% commited to my side of the argument so I'll just leave it as: who the Diddle knows?

...not me. Anything can happen at this point and any move made could end up being the wrong one. For now, though, I'd say keep Heatley long enough to play well for a few weeks before deciding what the maximum return is.

It's a good thing you feel this way because that is exactly what will happen. I for one, am happy as hell to have Heatley in our lineup on opening night. :KJK:

cas wrote:All very valid points. I'm not 100% commited to my side of the argument so I'll just leave it as: who the Diddle knows?

...not me. Anything can happen at this point and any move made could end up being the wrong one. For now, though, I'd say keep Heatley long enough to play well for a few weeks before deciding what the maximum return is.

Agreed. I said before the draft, that if Heatley was somehow here after the UFA Frenzy, we'd be better off to keep him until the deadline next season, as that will be the next time he value will be that high.

I suppose he'd really have to try hard to make this an even worse situation, so waiting probably isn't the end of the world. All things being considered though, if a deal is there, I think Murray ought to take it and just be done with this Dung-show. Let him be another GM's problem.

rooneypoo wrote:

RobbyJ wrote:I asked a question yesterday and never got an answer/opinion so I'll ask it again.

Since Heatley provided the Sens with a written trade request AND a list of teams he would go to, does this in effect alter his NMC to a limited NMC, meaning if Heatley stayed all year would Murray have to ask Heatley to waive again next summer for any of the teams on his list or has Heatley in fact already waived the clause.

The short answer is -- No. Letters aren't legally binding documents, contracts are. The difference? Letters are one-way, signed only by one party, and contracts are two-way, signed by both parties.

Even if OTT worked out a deal for Heatley with one of his choice teams, we'd still have to go to him for the final word to OK the deal. That's because it's built into his contract. It's a case by case basis, every time.

Think of the letter as a guideline, strictly. It has no legal consequences.

Correct, I believe if he officially waived his NMC then BM could do whatever the Diddle he wanted with Heater. At this time Dany has only requested a trade.

You can bet that the next chance owners they will try to change the rule so that once a players requests a trade he can be traded anywhere in the league.

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:again i would like to bring up the fact that yes healtey does look better then cheechoo but if you put cheechoo with spez you should be able to get 30 goals out of him and cheechoo will work his donkey off every night where we haev no idea white kind of attitude adn work ethic heatley will bring

I'd love that deal, as long as it is sweetened with a couple of picks. Problem is that San Jose can't make that deal unless they first move Marleau (for little or no salary).

TeamRenzo wrote:Correct, I believe if he officially waived his NMC then BM could do whatever the Diddle he wanted with Heater. At this time Dany has only requested a trade.

You can bet that the next chance owners they will try to change the rule so that once a players requests a trade he can be traded anywhere in the league.

I don't even think they need to change the CBA for that to happen; all they gotta do is write it in the player's contract.

marakh wrote:With all due respects, I've stopped wondering who is a contender or not in August. Last year I put Carolina in 10-12th place in the East and when I analyze their roster from last year, there's nothing in there that scares me. If Leclaire plays at his capabilities, anything is possible.

Yeah. I agree with this more now than I did before. For fun, do this:

The East through my eyes:

1.Boston
2.Philly
3.Washington
4.Pittsburgh
5.NJDevils
6.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
7.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
8.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
9.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
10.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
11.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
12.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto

You figure out who has places 6 to 8, you get a big pat on the back. I don't see what differentiates the Sens from the Canes. Ward is more comfortable in Carolina, but Leclaire's cut from the same cloth as a MAF - the winner of the Cup last year. Montreal has a better D, but a weaker (in theory) offence. The Rangers are bereft of talent and scoring from top to bottom (excluding G). And so on and so on. It's a real crapshoot.

And then we all know what can happen if you make the playoff on a role.

...and another interesting question that Dennycrane asked me was:

-if the Sens were in a position to acquire a big name goalscorer in this kind of situation, what would you offer?

WHOA!! That's a very good question SD. For the sake of argument, who is NOT to be considered, or rather who currently on the Sens roster, In your opinion, is to be considered untouchable?

Well, let's have some fun. For now, assume Heatley is on the roster, Smith is on the LTIR for at least half the season.

We had four weak spots last year:
1. coaching/game style
2. defense
3. goal
4. every player had an off year

#1 was fixed and the results were evident last year. #2 has improved a little with Lee playing better at the end of the year than at the start, and with Campoli here for a full season; also expecting a bit of a bounce back from Phillips. #3 is an improvement, whether it's Leclaire or Elliott in goal; Elliott played 30 games mostly in a row last year, so even if Leclaire is injured for a long stretch, we're covered there. #4 is unlikely to happen two years in a row, and was probably greatly abetted by #1 and #3.

So, in summary, the Sens start out very similar to the team that went 15-3 after reaching the Finals. Redden/Corvo/Meszaros have been replaced by Lee/Karlsson, Campoli and Picard; Vermette by Kovalev. I'm not expecting another 15-3 start (although given the schedule, even that's not out of the question) but we're certainly going to start out with a record pointing the way to a playoff spot.

In Montreal, Carey Price has to rebound from last year. Hopefully he has completely rehabbed his injury (hopefully for me as well, since I got him in the draft pool). The entire team has been overhauled. Hard to decide what will happen because we don't know how they will gel. I'll just say I like their chances better than Tampa, Buffalo or Toronto.

The Rangers are one injury away from being a lottery team. They are also one injury away from losing a lot of 1-0 or 2-0 games. I don't like their chances of making the playoffs at all.

Toronto has a decent defense, but if they rely on the Fabian Brunsstrom of galtenders to lead them to the promised land they will be in trouble. Their lack of scoring *could* make them challenge for the bottom of the standings. Just like the Rangers, if (when?) Gaborik pulls something, they will have to rely on the guy between the pipes to win 1-0 or 2-1 games, but instead of King Henrik they have The Monster. Frankly, I think Toskala will be playing the majority of the games by the time the Olympics are done; maybe even a lot sooner.

On to Carolina. Ward is still being bothered by his back; he sat out the first practice at the Olympic camp yesterday. Don't you think that's odd? He's had three months to recover (it was apparently bothering him last season) but on the first day of on-ice practices he's pulled out? This is, essentially, the same team that was hovering on the brink of missing the playoffs, until they won 9 of their last 11 on Ward's strong play. If Ward is not 100% they are a bubble team again.

Buffalo has been in a slow decline the last few years. I don't see anything happening to change that. They are grossly overpaying to keep talent there, which leaves next to nothing when filling out the roster. Since signing that $7.1M contract, Vanek has had two consecutive seasons of 64 points. Connolly hasn't played 50 games the last two years, and Jason Freakin' Pomminville is making $5.3M after dropping his production 16 points in his contract year? Wow, that's a scary looking payroll. Vanek could turn out to be a worse contract than Redden. Connolly is getting paid $7.5M (pro-rated to the number of games he actually suits up).

I really don't know where to go with Buffalo. If Miller is completely recovered, then they are like the Rangers but with potential to score. A lot of their forwards had a big drop in their production last year, so perhaps a collective mulligan? But who have they got on D to move the puck to those forwards? My gut says they miss again.

And that leaves Tampa. Hedman is not the savior. They need Meszaros to play like he did in his rookie season and, with Ohlund there as the #1, perhaps he will. They have a good shot at getting back to the playoffs, certainly a better shot than Toronto or Buffalo, but if Smith doesn't play up to expectations, it will be another long year.

My 6-8 includes Ottawa and Montreal. It excludes Buffalo and, most likely, Toronto. Tampa and Carolina could battle it out for #8, with the Rangers playing spoiler.

SpezDispenser wrote:

marakh wrote:With all due respects, I've stopped wondering who is a contender or not in August. Last year I put Carolina in 10-12th place in the East and when I analyze their roster from last year, there's nothing in there that scares me. If Leclaire plays at his capabilities, anything is possible.

Yeah. I agree with this more now than I did before. For fun, do this:

The East through my eyes:

1.Boston
2.Philly
3.Washington
4.Pittsburgh
5.NJDevils
6.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
7.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
8.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
9.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
10.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
11.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto
12.Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYRangers, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Toronto

You figure out who has places 6 to 8, you get a big pat on the back. I don't see what differentiates the Sens from the Canes. Ward is more comfortable in Carolina, but Leclaire's cut from the same cloth as a MAF - the winner of the Cup last year. Montreal has a better D, but a weaker (in theory) offence. The Rangers are bereft of talent and scoring from top to bottom (excluding G). And so on and so on. It's a real crapshoot.

And then we all know what can happen if you make the playoff on a role.

Assuming we didn't have Heatley and were looking for a Goal scorer, my untouchables would be:

Spezza, Alfie and Foligno up front. Karlsson and either Weircoch or Cowan.

Wpranger,

You forgot to include Kuba when you listing replacements for Redden/Corvo and Mez.

TeamRenzo wrote:

Correct, I believe if he officially waived his NMC then BM could do whatever the Diddle he wanted with Heater. At this time Dany has only requested a trade.

You can bet that the next chance owners they will try to change the rule so that once a players requests a trade he can be traded anywhere in the league.

No, that's not right either.

The only time a player with a NMC will waive it is when the trade he wants comes up and he takes it. You can't trick or deceive a player on this. Any potential movement management tries to make with that player has be agreed to by that player, 100% of the time. It's 100% fool proof.

Heatley is in full control here over when and where he moves -- on this occasion and all occasions under his current contract. That's the nature of the NMC.

RobbyJ wrote:Wpranger,

You forgot to include Kuba when you listing replacements for Redden/Corvo and Mez.

Hey, I'm forgetting a lot more tan just that, but Kuba is definitely a big omissions, thanks.

Others include thelikes of McAmmond, Stillman/Commodore (although they were not part of the 15-3 start), Eaves, and I'm probably still missing some.

Cronie wrote:WHOA!! That's a very good question SD. For the sake of argument, who is NOT to be considered, or rather who currently on the Sens roster, In your opinion, is to be considered untouchable?

Alfredsson, Spezza, Karlssson.

Everyone else is up for the right goal scorer. However, it gets tricky though. I wouldn't trade Wiercioch for anything less than a MASSIVE deal that sets us up on the backend. Nor would I jump to trade Cowen.

I would offer Foligno as the centerpiece. But is that enough?

Without quoting the whole post, those are fairly in line with how I view the East as well Prager.