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Toronto Blue Jays Talk

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46Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:01 pm

caissie_1


Veteran
Veteran
Yes they are.... Opposing teams seam a little scared to pay the price he's worth... He would or should bring in one of the greatest prospects returns in a long time in MLB.... He is signed for next year so his value is alot greater...

Also if he bolts the team next year that team would get 2 first round picks as compensation so Halladay's value is true the ruff.... He will definetly bring a better return if traded then Sabathia did for the Indians last year.

47Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:04 pm

shabbs


Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Yeah, the return for Halladay should be HUGE. Best pitcher in the league. Hell yeah.

48Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:27 pm

Hayden


Rookie
Rookie
The best thing for Halladay and the Jays - is to trade him. He's been loyal - but he definitely deserve some playoff ball - and the jays need to retool. I am worried that it is JP pulling the trigger on this one though.

49Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:08 pm

PKC

PKC
All-Star
All-Star
Hayden wrote:The best thing for Halladay and the Jays - is to trade him. He's been loyal - but he definitely deserve some playoff ball - and the jays need to retool. I am worried that it is JP pulling the trigger on this one though.

That is probably the worst thing in the world for the Blue Jays. If they trade Halladay, I don't give a Dung what they get for him, it'll set that team back a decade.

The onus should be on firing that retard Ricciardi and bringing in a GM who knows how to build a team and find the right pieces, not go thrift shopping in the bargain bin free agent sale and fill his team up with fringe major leaguers who were all having way above average years.

I say, fire Ricciardi, bring in a GM who can find a bat or two that can produce home runs and RBI in the middle of the order and let a healthy rotation and bullpen get a chance to shine.

With Halladay at the helm, guys like McGowan, Litsch, Romero, Janssen, Tallet and Marcum to fill out your rotation and bullpen, two, hopefully, perennial all-stars in Lind and Hill, and a lot of nice youth coming up the pipelines, the Jays just need to give it a chance. But they need to get rid of Ricciardi first. That guy doesn't know Dung about Dung I think.

50Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:23 am

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
There is just such bad karma right now. It's not the time to make a decision of the magnitude of trading Doc. I understand he wants to win, but when you have a guy like Romero out there, live, young arm, you can build around him and Doc.

McGowan's killer as well. Bad luck he got injured. I don't mind Litsch, but he's pretty hit or miss. Tallet has been okay.

Dung, if you trade Doc, you'll never get someone back who's be even half as good.

If ANYONE asks about Vernon Wells or Alex Rios, now's the time.

Another guy who shouldn't be moved is Rolen. Lights out. The guy's awesome.

Move Overbay while you can. Hill is awesome, Lind is awesome. The pieces are there, the manager is there...patience now. But it's JP we're talking about.

51Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:00 am

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Do you think Halladay would re-sign with the Jays? If Halladay is going to go elsewhere after next season, why not trade him while you can get some good return instead of losing him for nothing?

52Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:04 am

Cap'n Clutch

Cap'n Clutch
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
shabbs wrote:Do you think Halladay would re-sign with the Jays? If Halladay is going to go elsewhere after next season, why not trade him while you can get some good return instead of losing him for nothing?

Maybe the Jays hired Muckler as a consultant? Sarcasm


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53Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:06 am

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Cap'n Clutch wrote:
shabbs wrote:Do you think Halladay would re-sign with the Jays? If Halladay is going to go elsewhere after next season, why not trade him while you can get some good return instead of losing him for nothing?

Maybe the Jays hired Muckler as a consultant? Sarcasm
I'm not sure what's going on with Jays management... and I'm not sure why they were openly shopping Halladay as I think it just made things worse. Who knows what's going on.

54Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:10 am

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
shabbs wrote:Do you think Halladay would re-sign with the Jays? If Halladay is going to go elsewhere after next season, why not trade him while you can get some good return instead of losing him for nothing?

I would back a truck full of money to Halladay and say, 'we want you to stay, and we want to win'.

He's everything to the Jays IMO.

But, if he's going to leave the organization, then I would certainly think about it. Why can't this wait until next season? See where we are then?

55Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:16 am

SensFan71


All-Star
All-Star
yesterday's game shows you what Doc can do, dominated one of the best teams in the league, this team without him is nothing, but again, Ricciardi has a tough decision to make, not trade Halladay and risk losing him for nothing, or trade him now or even next year at trade deadline, risk not getting the same return talent wise, and being the ire of jays fans until the dawn of time?

56Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:23 am

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
SensFan71 wrote:yesterday's game shows you what Doc can do, dominated one of the best teams in the league, this team without him is nothing, but again, Ricciardi has a tough decision to make, not trade Halladay and risk losing him for nothing, or trade him now or even next year at trade deadline, risk not getting the same return talent wise, and being the ire of jays fans until the dawn of time?

Apparently part of the deal would be that young stud pitcher from Boston, so...that's a start.

Still totally opposed to trading Doc though.

57Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:27 am

SensFan71


All-Star
All-Star
not sure if I deal with any team in the AL East, unless the deal is just so overwhelming you have no choice but to say yes. I hear Philly may be in on it, and the player below may be one of the pieces included.

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=457918

58Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:33 am

Guest


Guest
If you want to be a winner, you don't trade the best pitcher in the majors, you build around him. JP Retardy should have been fired a LONG time ago. He shouldn't be empowered to make this important a decision for the organization when he is obviously on his way out.

This team is in trouble right now in the toughest division. Hopefully Jason Bay signs with the Jays when he becomes a UFA and they can get out from under Wells' contract. What a horrible mistake that turned out to be. And why would they just waive Ryan? Sure he was not playing up to his normal standard but they don't have anyone playing any better and they don't have a young arm they are looking to use in his place. Just throw away all that $$$? Wow! There are a lot of things that need fixing. Horrible managing all around, horrible.

59Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:38 am

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
MurderOnIce wrote:If you want to be a winner, you don't trade the best pitcher in the majors, you build around him. JP Retardy should have been fired a LONG time ago. He shouldn't be empowered to make this important a decision for the organization when he is obviously on his way out.

This team is in trouble right now in the toughest division. Hopefully Jason Bay signs with the Jays when he becomes a UFA and they can get out from under Wells' contract. What a horrible mistake that turned out to be. And why would they just waive Ryan? Sure he was not playing up to his normal standard but they don't have anyone playing any better and they don't have a young arm they are looking to use in his place. Just throw away all that $$$? Wow! There are a lot of things that need fixing. Horrible managing all around, horrible.

Ryan? They had young arms in the BP to cover for him, he was useless as tatas on a bull.

But yes, BUILD AROUND HALLADAY.

Damn, that's it to a T. Do you build around Alfredsson, or trade him? The Jays have all the young pieces in place. This year was seriously about learning what it takes. Add a couple of pieces in the off-season and make it so!!!

60Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:45 am

Guest


Guest
SpezDispenser wrote:
MurderOnIce wrote:If you want to be a winner, you don't trade the best pitcher in the majors, you build around him. JP Retardy should have been fired a LONG time ago. He shouldn't be empowered to make this important a decision for the organization when he is obviously on his way out.

This team is in trouble right now in the toughest division. Hopefully Jason Bay signs with the Jays when he becomes a UFA and they can get out from under Wells' contract. What a horrible mistake that turned out to be. And why would they just waive Ryan? Sure he was not playing up to his normal standard but they don't have anyone playing any better and they don't have a young arm they are looking to use in his place. Just throw away all that $$$? Wow! There are a lot of things that need fixing. Horrible managing all around, horrible.

Ryan? They had young arms in the BP to cover for him, he was useless as tatas on a bull.

But yes, BUILD AROUND HALLADAY.

Damn, that's it to a T. Do you build around Alfredsson, or trade him? The Jays have all the young pieces in place. This year was seriously about learning what it takes. Add a couple of pieces in the off-season and make it so!!!

Sure Ryan had a poor year but he only came out for 4 save opportunities this year. Last year he was 32 of 36 with almost a K per inning. It is hard for a guy that is used to being the closer to move to a different role especially when the organization is in disarray. It is like going from being a gun slinger in the wild west to pointing a water gun in the clowns mouth hoping you beat the fat kid next to you... I am not saying he has been good or defending him as the best option but I am saying 'if you are paying him anyway, might as well use him'...

61Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:55 am

PKC

PKC
All-Star
All-Star
That's what I've been saying all along.

You take Halladay, you take Lind and Hill and you put the best Diddle talent you can find around them and you let those guys take your team to the promised land.

We should have a rotation next year of Halladay, McGowan, Romero, Marcum, Litsch/Cecil which if you ask me is a premier pitching staff in the majors.

Then you have Hill and Lind with potential keep-overs in Rolen and Scutaro. You need two power-hitters injected into your lineup, a utility first baseman with speed (stealing bases is a major weakness for this team) and potentially another right fielder if you trade Rios. Although to be honest, with regards to Rios, I just feel like he's being misused. I think this guy should be batting second or third in the order to maximize his contact hitting ability and the fact that he does have decent wheels.

As far as Wells is concerned, I think it's time the Jays tried to move him. Even though he is a phenomenal fielder (many times over gold glove winner), the money we pay him belongs to someone with major pop in their bat, something that Wells has just lost at random.

This guy should be a perennial 30 HR/100+ RBI hitter with elite defensive ability. Instead we get the defence from him and the occassional hit.

If the Jays can keep that rotation I mentioned above, have a batting lineup built around Hill, Lind, Rolen, Scutaro, Rios, Snider and Thigpen and inject two power hitters into the lineup, you are looking at a potential championship calibre team.

But they need to fire Ricciardi and find someone who can get those two power-hitters into the lineup.

62Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:56 am

SensFan71


All-Star
All-Star
would Bryan colangelo be interested in cloning himself and letting the clone run the Jays?

63Toronto Blue Jays Talk - Page 4 Empty Re: Toronto Blue Jays Talk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:00 pm

PKC

PKC
All-Star
All-Star
MurderOnIce wrote:
Sure Ryan had a poor year but he only came out for 4 save opportunities this year. Last year he was 32 of 36 with almost a K per inning. It is hard for a guy that is used to being the closer to move to a different role especially when the organization is in disarray. It is like going from being a gun slinger in the wild west to pointing a water gun in the clowns mouth hoping you beat the fat kid next to you... I am not saying he has been good or defending him as the best option but I am saying 'if you are paying him anyway, might as well use him'...

BJ Ryan had to be let go. He just didn't have major league "stuff" anymore. After his elbow surgery from last year, he lost close to 7 mph velocity off his fast ball. Which seems like it would be manageable until you realize his pre-surgery fast ball only touched close to the 90 mph mark.

When you have a closer tossing 82-83 mph fastballs, mixed in with an average complement of sinkers and curveballs, you're asking for trouble. Not to mention, given his throwing mechanics (the significant inverted L), he is extremely prone to shoulder and elbow injury now.

BJ had to be let go, he just wasn't useful anymore.

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