Spezza won't be traded.

Neely4Life wrote:I think people really have to start watching other teams and other players around the league on a far more regular basis.

As far as his PPG production goes, obviously its up there with the best. But who does he score against? Who does he dominate? I remember the game against Detroit this year, Datsyuk made Spezza look like a pre-pubecent teen, it was honestly sad.

The centers and forwards coming into this league are almost more complete than Spezza, the "holes in his game" are dramatic to say the least. It's not just a tweek here and a tweek there, it's a lot more than that.

Look at Zetterberg, that's a top end player. Crosby is the same deal. Datsyuk might be the best all around player in the game. Malkin is even far more agressive and physical than Spezza. That's 2 teams with 4 centers that are on an absolute other level then Spezza.

Toews, captain of his team already and I woul be shocked if Spezza ever wore a "C" in the NHL ever. Same with a guy like Richards.

The best comparable to Spezza in the league right now are Savard (who with Julian as his coach as turned into a fairly complete player) and Ribiero. Watch their games (if you have center ice) and you will see exactly what I am talking about.

mattshock wrote:OK Neels, I'll bite.

Since you're obviously dissatisfied with the guy, what would you do?

He's a talented #1 center who albeit isn't a leader (there are LOTS of guys who are top-tier talent who aren't), but gets the job done. There is no one else in the organization even remotely at his level who plays center.

He's young and he's signed long term.

What's your move?

MurderOnIce wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

davetherave wrote:MOI> please don't misread or misinterpret my post.

I suggested that watching how these four centermen have played in this year's SCPs, and making a comparison to Spezza, tends to accentuate the aspects that have been criticized about Jason Spezza.

The statistical comparisons are irrelevant in this context.

The ability of these players to lead their teams by example...NOW...is the point.

Can Jason Spezza match that level going forward? Forget the past. What he's done, is done. What he does next, is relevant to the progress of the Senators and, one supposes, the opinions of Senators fans.

And I am NOT taking sides on this issue...just offering another perspective.

Those who fail to learn and change based on past history are also bound to repeat it.

I'll take another SCF run please....

Neely4Life wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:I don't care for the Jubilee Fine Jewellers commercial.

I understand the frustration with certain parts of Spezzas game. I just don't think you ignore the point production he brings.

I'm sure the Sharks would love to have Spezza over Thornton. Think of a player you pine for and you can almost bet Spezza is just as valuable to other teams.

I think people really have to start watching other teams and other players around the league on a far more regular basis.

Neely4Life wrote:
A team cannot be built around Spezza and that's my issue in Ottawa because that's what has happend. If he was making 5 mil for 5 years, we wouldnt be having this convo, but his contract is double that overall.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:I think people really have to start watching other teams and other players around the league on a far more regular basis.

As far as his PPG production goes, obviously its up there with the best. But who does he score against? Who does he dominate? I remember the game against Detroit this year, Datsyuk made Spezza look like a pre-pubecent teen, it was honestly sad.

The centers and forwards coming into this league are almost more complete than Spezza, the "holes in his game" are dramatic to say the least. It's not just a tweek here and a tweek there, it's a lot more than that.

Look at Zetterberg, that's a top end player. Crosby is the same deal. Datsyuk might be the best all around player in the game. Malkin is even far more agressive and physical than Spezza. That's 2 teams with 4 centers that are on an absolute other level then Spezza.

Toews, captain of his team already and I woul be shocked if Spezza ever wore a "C" in the NHL ever. Same with a guy like Richards.

The best comparable to Spezza in the league right now are Savard (who with Julian as his coach as turned into a fairly complete player) and Ribiero. Watch their games (if you have center ice) and you will see exactly what I am talking about.

How did you digress from a really, really good take on things to this?

Spezza beat the Wings single handedly. Scored 2 of the 3 goals in a 3-2 win I believe. What about that? Where was Datsyuk and Zetterberg then? Does that mean that they sucked, but they got better? Or does it mean that Spezza was amazing and he digressed? Because, honestly, it's hard to imagine a 25 year old taking steps backwards. He might, but these are the guys that bounce back and get it. Datsyuk was in this exact position 2 years ago. No one wanted to touch him, but he started getting better and better - and now he's one of the leaders of a championship team.

He was a bust in the playoffs and called soft. Year after year. But the Wings had patience in him and believed. And they got rewarded.

Somewhere along the way you have to let the hate for Spezza subside a bit and believe in guys like Murray, Dorion, Fehr, Clouston, Alfredsson and even Melnyk. Because rest assured, they all have their fingers on the pulse of the Sens. Way more so than you or I do.

Neely4Life wrote:In all honesty MOI, could things have gone any more perfectly during that cup run? EVERYTHING went the Sens way. Every bounce, every call, every missed call up until the finals. I dont think there has ever been a team to just role through their conferance like the Sens did that year.

Thats where the problem is in Ottawa, when things go their way, they can't be stopped, but teams have figured out to get in their way like the Ducks did and you have seen the results. Just like in the finals that year, onced faced with adversity the Sens fold it up along with Spezza.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
A team cannot be built around Spezza and that's my issue in Ottawa because that's what has happend. If he was making 5 mil for 5 years, we wouldnt be having this convo, but his contract is double that overall.

I don't get it. His contract is 7 million for 7 years (6 left). Double?

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:I don't care for the Jubilee Fine Jewellers commercial.

I understand the frustration with certain parts of Spezzas game. I just don't think you ignore the point production he brings.

I'm sure the Sharks would love to have Spezza over Thornton. Think of a player you pine for and you can almost bet Spezza is just as valuable to other teams.

I think people really have to start watching other teams and other players around the league on a far more regular basis.

I can only speak for myself. I do watch plenty of hockey and I acknowledge that there are differences between Spezza and other star players in the league that may reflect negatively on him. I think that the results ie. points would motivate GMs to have interest in him nonetheless.

MurderOnIce wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:In all honesty MOI, could things have gone any more perfectly during that cup run? EVERYTHING went the Sens way. Every bounce, every call, every missed call up until the finals. I dont think there has ever been a team to just role through their conferance like the Sens did that year.

Thats where the problem is in Ottawa, when things go their way, they can't be stopped, but teams have figured out to get in their way like the Ducks did and you have seen the results. Just like in the finals that year, onced faced with adversity the Sens fold it up along with Spezza.

Sure everything went fine.. I wouldn't go as far as to say every call bounce etc... I give the team some credit, don't you? Things were running along fine and then hey guys we aren't playing 2005 rules we are going with 1983 rules... k... Oh and BTW, Pronger getting a second suspension in one playoff year and the second one being only one game is a travesty...

Neely4Life wrote:
If you had to put money on Spezza bouncing back and carrying this team when Alfi is done, would you?

Neely4Life wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:In all honesty MOI, could things have gone any more perfectly during that cup run? EVERYTHING went the Sens way. Every bounce, every call, every missed call up until the finals. I dont think there has ever been a team to just role through their conferance like the Sens did that year.

Thats where the problem is in Ottawa, when things go their way, they can't be stopped, but teams have figured out to get in their way like the Ducks did and you have seen the results. Just like in the finals that year, onced faced with adversity the Sens fold it up along with Spezza.

Sure everything went fine.. I wouldn't go as far as to say every call bounce etc... I give the team some credit, don't you? Things were running along fine and then hey guys we aren't playing 2005 rules we are going with 1983 rules... k... Oh and BTW, Pronger getting a second suspension in one playoff year and the second one being only one game is a travesty...

Obviously I give the team credit for getting their but they had more then their fair share of luck. Look at the finals now, there is tons more being let go then there was in the regular season and first 3 rounds, but you fight through it. That's what winners do!

People blame this and that, but the only guys that are going to be able to get it done are the guys in the mirror for Ottawa. It takes a special kind of person to accept the blame and responsibility and show that they want to be better and prove it vs someone who just says it.

MurderOnIce wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:In all honesty MOI, could things have gone any more perfectly during that cup run? EVERYTHING went the Sens way. Every bounce, every call, every missed call up until the finals. I dont think there has ever been a team to just role through their conferance like the Sens did that year.

Thats where the problem is in Ottawa, when things go their way, they can't be stopped, but teams have figured out to get in their way like the Ducks did and you have seen the results. Just like in the finals that year, onced faced with adversity the Sens fold it up along with Spezza.

Sure everything went fine.. I wouldn't go as far as to say every call bounce etc... I give the team some credit, don't you? Things were running along fine and then hey guys we aren't playing 2005 rules we are going with 1983 rules... k... Oh and BTW, Pronger getting a second suspension in one playoff year and the second one being only one game is a travesty...

Obviously I give the team credit for getting their but they had more then their fair share of luck. Look at the finals now, there is tons more being let go then there was in the regular season and first 3 rounds, but you fight through it. That's what winners do!

People blame this and that, but the only guys that are going to be able to get it done are the guys in the mirror for Ottawa. It takes a special kind of person to accept the blame and responsibility and show that they want to be better and prove it vs someone who just says it.

It's not like you get the same shot every year. You start game one on the road (after a nine day layoff)... and the rules are changed while you aren't looking... you lose by one in a tough game. Second game again you lose by one but one of your key forwards is knocked out by an absolutely vicious hit. Seriously should have been a 5 game suspension and would have been during the season, not even having the history of the suspension 2 WEEKS EARLIER. You go back home and win a solid game 3... 5 to 3. You lose game 4 by one goal again and then it was basically the team saying uncle... 6 to 2 loss in the finals...

I am sorry but all the bounces, calls and supplementary discipline went the way of the Ducks. After 4 games there was a one goal differential and they were down 3 games to one... the reality is that series could have gone either way even though it was a 4 to 1 result....

MurderOnIce wrote:
It's not like you get the same shot every year. You start game one on the road (after a nine day layoff)... and the rules are changed while you aren't looking... you lose by one in a tough game. Second game again you lose by one but one of your key forwards is knocked out by an absolutely vicious hit. Seriously should have been a 5 game suspension and would have been during the season, not even having the history of the suspension 2 WEEKS EARLIER. You go back home and win a solid game 3... 5 to 3. You lose game 4 by one goal again and then it was basically the team saying uncle... 6 to 2 loss in the finals...

I am sorry but all the bounces, calls and supplementary discipline went the way of the Ducks. After 4 games there was a one goal differential and they were down 3 games to one... the reality is that series could have gone either way even though it was a 4 to 1 result....

Neely4Life wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:In all honesty MOI, could things have gone any more perfectly during that cup run? EVERYTHING went the Sens way. Every bounce, every call, every missed call up until the finals. I dont think there has ever been a team to just role through their conferance like the Sens did that year.

Thats where the problem is in Ottawa, when things go their way, they can't be stopped, but teams have figured out to get in their way like the Ducks did and you have seen the results. Just like in the finals that year, onced faced with adversity the Sens fold it up along with Spezza.

Sure everything went fine.. I wouldn't go as far as to say every call bounce etc... I give the team some credit, don't you? Things were running along fine and then hey guys we aren't playing 2005 rules we are going with 1983 rules... k... Oh and BTW, Pronger getting a second suspension in one playoff year and the second one being only one game is a travesty...

Obviously I give the team credit for getting their but they had more then their fair share of luck. Look at the finals now, there is tons more being let go then there was in the regular season and first 3 rounds, but you fight through it. That's what winners do!

People blame this and that, but the only guys that are going to be able to get it done are the guys in the mirror for Ottawa. It takes a special kind of person to accept the blame and responsibility and show that they want to be better and prove it vs someone who just says it.

It's not like you get the same shot every year. You start game one on the road (after a nine day layoff)... and the rules are changed while you aren't looking... you lose by one in a tough game. Second game again you lose by one but one of your key forwards is knocked out by an absolutely vicious hit. Seriously should have been a 5 game suspension and would have been during the season, not even having the history of the suspension 2 WEEKS EARLIER. You go back home and win a solid game 3... 5 to 3. You lose game 4 by one goal again and then it was basically the team saying uncle... 6 to 2 loss in the finals...

I am sorry but all the bounces, calls and supplementary discipline went the way of the Ducks. After 4 games there was a one goal differential and they were down 3 games to one... the reality is that series could have gone either way even though it was a 4 to 1 result....

It could have gone either way but The Ducks had the better goaltending, better defense, and by the looks of things now the better offense. You make you're own breaks and the Sens did that in the 1st, 3 rounds along with some luck. In the finals it was fairly evident the best team won.

As for Pronger, like it or, what he did worked and he now has the cup ring on his finger. At the end of the day he will be remembered for being a Hart Trophy winner and a Stanley Cup Champion. Whatever it takes to win.