Spezza won't be traded.

Well, someone who has won something, on some level that can lead the team into the future. Alfi is going to be 37 at the end of next year, how much more do people really expect from the guy? He isnt going to be here forever and the injuries are going to catch up with a guy his age. Sad but true.

The Sens as of yet and not adressed the most important thing IMO and I think it's basically what you said Heater, CHARACTER. There is absolutly none in Ottawa. When things are going well I dont think there is a team in the league that can beat Ottawa, when things dont go their way, I dont think there is a team in the league Ottawa can beat. That's all based on team character and the players within it. Spezza is a DIRECT reflection of that. He cna go on a tear like no one else in the league but once something gets in his way, or something doesnt go his way, it's in the crapper for him.

Ottawa is easy to frustrate, easy to take off their game, and basically, easy to beat in a tight game. Teams have figured out Spezza and Heatley, how some people havnt seen that by now based on the last 2 years, well, guess they should just watch things a little more closely.
Until the Sens adress that, its max 1 playoff round and out, then just another off season of crying and biching by us.

Bang on. There's nothing to argue there.

Now, finding a guy to bring the character level up for these guys is probably a lot harder than it sounds. The first step was Clouston - and it was a good and big step. The second step is a guy who's been there before and NEEDS to win one last time before his career is through. Raw desire and a vocal leader who will at times wear his emotions on his sleeve is much more important to me personally than some slick winger who will score 25 goals.

They are all locked up long term, and the young guys that want to win now have all won in Jr. People tend to forget how important winning at a young age is and how critical it is to NHL success these days.

You look at all the great young players in the league, Richards, Toews, Crosby, Ovechkin, Getzlaf, Phaneuf, Weber, Price, so on, they all won on some level before they got into the NHL.

Like it or not, aside from Phillips,Alfi, to a lesser extent Heatley, the rest of the team is a bunch of losers with very little character. People are so sensative to loving their team in Ottawa they fail to see this. No one there knows how to win, and the guy that is front and center (literally) has NO IDEA what it takes and the proof is in his entire history in the NHL and Jr.

Winning is something The Sens have to work a lot harder for than they did 5, 6, 7 years ago when some of these young guys came in and just expected to. The guys that were there then did a lot of lossing before they ever won. The Sens have a lot more losing in front of them before they have a shot at competing with the top teams again.

504Heater wrote:Bang on. There's nothing to argue there.

Now, finding a guy to bring the character level up for these guys is probably a lot harder than it sounds. The first step was Clouston - and it was a good and big step. The second step is a guy who's been there before and NEEDS to win one last time before his career is through. Raw desire and a vocal leader who will at times wear his emotions on his sleeve is much more important to me personally than some slick winger who will score 25 goals.

Guys like that might be hard to come by, we might be better off drafting some home grown talent with that same desire to win, then take it on the chin for a couple of years, much like some people are saying Weircioch is a guy that is all heart and has a team first mentality.

Neely4Life wrote:They are all locked up long term, and the young guys that want to win now have all won in Jr. People tend to forget how important winning at a young age is and how critical it is to NHL success these days.

You look at all the great young players in the league, Richards, Toews, Crosby, Ovechkin, Getzlaf, Phaneuf, Weber, Price, so on, they all won on some level before they got into the NHL.

Like it or not, aside from Phillips,Alfi, to a lesser extent Heatley, the rest of the team is a bunch of losers with very little character. People are so sensative to loving their team in Ottawa they fail to see this. No one there knows how to win, and the guy that is front and center (literally) has NO IDEA what it takes and the proof is in his entire history in the NHL and Jr.

Winning is something The Sens have to work a lot harder for than they did 5, 6, 7 years ago when some of these young guys came in and just expected to. The guys that were there then did a lot of lossing before they ever won. The Sens have a lot more losing in front of them before they have a shot at competing with the top teams again.

In fairness, of the guys you mentioned, only Getzlaf has won at the NHL level. And of the rest, only Crosby has even made it to the Finals. So, while I'm sure it means a lot, it doesn't mean everything.

Again, I think we're on the same page here. Bring me a Cory Stillman who has pee and vinegar in his veins and I would think that the organization will take a step forward.

This also makes me a little bit more frustrated that Elliott wasn't returned to Bingo for their run at the playoffs. He could have single handedly brought them a championship. Especially when considering there were others on the Sens that could have been sent down to help. But...hey, what do I know?

SensFan71 wrote:
Guys like that might be hard to come by, we might be better off drafting some home grown talent with that same desire to win, then take it on the chin for a couple of years, much like some people are saying Weircioch is a guy that is all heart and has a team first mentality.

Oh yeah, we have winners coming up. Wiercioch, Karlsson, O'Brien, Z.Smith, Peter Regin. These are guys who have a lot of desire. I know it'll be hard to find, but if you can swing a deal, or sign a UFA with the criteria suggested, you might find that guys like Spezza and Heatley really make a jump in attitude towards needing to win. It's like acquiring another coach, one that can teach these guys - and also one that can leave it all on the ice. Someone to support Alfie as well.

I love Weircoich, and I love Karlsson, but they wont make a serious impact for at least 4, 5 years, maybe more. By then the Sens could have very well been out of the playoffs, 2, maybe 3 of those years with 1st round exits. The Sens will be getting a lot of high draft picks over the next few years, that I'm pretty sure of.

Again, this team cannot compete with Washington, Pitts, and Boston at this point. It's debatable whether they can compete with Philly and NJ. (If Philly picks up a goalie, no shot we can). That puts us at best, 6th in the East with teams like Carolina, Buffalo, Montreal, even Toronto now getting all those FA's to sign. I wouldnt be shocked if Ottawa finished last in the division next year, nor would I be surprised if they made the playoffs in the 6th-8th spot. But competing for The Cup? No shot with the current make up of this team. We havnt won a playoff game in 2 years, and it might be 3 very shorty.

Potentially, yeah. Unless a lot of things go amazingly well.

For us to win a playoff round, these things have to happen:

1.Leclaire is stellar and steals 2 of the 4 games.
2.Spezza and Heatley play like they did in the Finals year
3.Alfie is completely injury free and dominates like he can
4.Phillips and Volchenkov regain their shutdown form
5.Kuba has an excellent, strong series
6.Campoli and Lee over achieve
7.Fisher plays hard and strong - and he also contributes offensively
8.Foligno goes to a whole new level
9.Shannon shows that he can play NHL hockey like he did last season for a full year - and into the rigors of the playoffs.
10.Regin doesn't shy away from the physical nature of a playoff series.

Is that too much to ask?

That's not going to happen considering Leclaire has never seen an NHL playoff game and with a small defense the Sens are going to get run over, especially if they play Boston, Pitts, or Wash, which they will. Pick your poision.

And for those who think Spezza is a top line center on a championship team, he's not even in the same league as the top 2 centers on each team in the finals right now. As of right now, he would literally be the 3rd line center in Detroit or Pitts, and he makes more than the top 2 guys in Detroit.

One step at a time Neely. I doubt we're going to be considered a playoff team next year, let alone a Cup team.

There have been a number of step taken but the most important one and that is obtaining guys or developing guys who know how to and want to win.

It's not looking good for the Sens for the next few years and I would be willing to bet that we finish at the bottom of the division one of the next two years.

Neely4Life wrote:There have been a number of step taken but the most important one and that is obtaining guys or developing guys who know how to and want to win.

It's not looking good for the Sens for the next few years and I would be willing to bet that we finish at the bottom of the division one of the next two years.

I would be a little surprised if we finished bottom of the division personally. Montreal is in shambles, Toronto can only try to buy their players - and that rarely works.

Out of the playoffs? Now, that I can see.

Toronto signed a whole mess of FA's right from college who are mature and ready for the NHL, the same thing was done in Anahiem before they won their cup. I can def see Toronto finishing ahead of Ottawa if Toskala is back to form and their D stay healthy.
Montreal, depends who they resign or sign honestly. Come training camp, I wouldnt be surprised if people are picking Ottawa to finish at the basement of our division and close to the bottom of the league.

There is a small opportunity for Ottawa to build with younger guys and Murray may decide to try and make a febal attempt at a run for a cup with his last days in the NHL. Saying the things he did in that article today reak of desperation on his part.

Looking at the situation from a more objective view...

Bryan Murray has locked himself into a contract with Spezza that puts him cap wise and salary wise in the top 10 centermen in the NHL.

If the Sens had maintained their 2007 SCF level, or been trending upward in the last two seasons, instead of downward and out of the playoffs, there would be much less scrutiny of Spezza's play.

If one looks at the performance, and not just in terms of statistics, of four of the top centres playing in this year's Final Four--say Eric Staal, Jonathan Toews, Evgeni Malkin and Henrik Zetterberg--only one of them makes as much as Spezza. All of them are more complete players, and all are 'team first'.

This kind of comparison tends to put the spotlight on a player whose skills are generally agreed on, but whose consistency and compete level are often questioned. Fairly or unfairly.

But the way Bryan Murray has constructed the team, he has no choice but to keep Spezza, as he has no reasonable alternative.

Until the Senators start to win again, Jason Spezza will be a magnet for criticism.

At the end of the day, his critics and advocates aside, it becomes Jason Spezza's decision as to what level he wants to take his play. While his numbers may look good, numbers aren't everything.

Spezza reminds me--somewhat--of Jean Ratelle, the former New York Ranger and Bruin who starred for those teams in the 60s and 70s.

Ratelle was always considered talented, but harshly criticized in New York for much the same reasons as Spezza...and there are parallels, such as both having back surgery at early stages in their NHL careers.

It wasn't until Ratelle got out of the spotlight in Manhattan that he was able to reach a true comfort level in his game.

Neely4Life wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/2009/06/03/9656946-sun.html

As much as Murray says he won't move him. I am sure the rumors won't stop until July 1 rolls around.

I wonder what the one more adjustment is in the contract offer for Chris Neil. I'm guess its some form of limited NTC.

I guess this is the closest to getting any new Sens news at the moment.

This was a very interesting read this morning. Murray's been watching and Spezza's maturing and hitting the gym to get bigger. Right now, Murray's job is 100% on the line in what he does with Spezza, so it would stand to reason that Murray would be getting reports on how hard Spezza is working, who he's working with, what he's working on, how hard he's working, how much focus he's putting in. The whole nine.

That's big, big news for Sens fans. If Murray is personally making sure that Spezza's doing all the right things - and Spezza's actually doing these things by himself - well then, our child is growing into a man.

I tell you, if Murray thought that he wasn't going to continue to develop, he wouldn't have said jack Dung in that article one way or the other. Murray sees it, assuredly the other coaches and scouts are watching like hawks and they see it. So, by July 1st, if Murray hasn't gotten an offer that absolutely blows him out of the water and he stands by Spezza, that's good enough for me.

They key to that article is "25-year-old Spezza". People forget how YOUNG this guy is and how much he has accomplished. Personally I am tired of all the Spezza bashing... Hope his hitting the gym works out well and silences the nay-sayers....

Just curious, what has he accomplished?

N4L,

I appreciate that you aren't a fan. Put that aside for a second and pretend his name was something else....

He has done the following:

• Played in the OHL @ 15 years old
  
• Third 16 year old to play at the WJHC
  
• Drafted 2nd overall
  
• Won 2 bronzes and a silver at the WJHC
  
• Won 2 Silvers at the Mens World Championships
  
• No. 1 center on a SCF team (@ 22 years old) tied franchise record for 22 pts in those playoffs
  
• More than a PPG player (418 pts in 404 games)
  
• 117 pts in Bingo
  
• Career high 92 pts a year ago
  
• Contributes time to Roger's House and Spelling with Spezza
  

I am not his biggest fan by any stretch and he frustrates me many nights but I am sorry, if any team could draft a player first overall and expect that to be his resume after 7 yrs, there would be a lineup of 30 GMs. Additionally his numbers are including time under Jacques who was NOT a fan... Wait a second... N4L... are you Jacques Martin?

Neely4Life wrote:Saying the things he did in that article today reak of desperation on his part.

Why? I don't understand that rationale. If Murray wanted to, he could trade Spezza to a laundry list of teams. LA being a team that's continually shown interest - and now they're upping the ante to get Vinny out of TB. If Murray was to come in and say, okay, let's make a deal for Spezza, LA would have to give up much less - and get a guy who can play with Dustin Brown - one of those natural leader kind of guys.

If a franchise is to stay in Atlanta, they should be smashing down Murray's door to try to get someone to play with Kovalchuk who's skill level is a step up from Little's.

And so on and so on. I would say 5 to 7 teams would have serious interest - and 3 would be coming in with legitimate offers.

If you want to compare Spezza to someone who is a little more current, it is Pierre Turgeon. A guy with all the tallent in the world that could never be counted on when it counts and someone who's character was constantly questioned. He had a good career and put up great numbers, but he wont be remember for anything but being a guy who had tallent and got bounced around the league.

Dave also left out Crosby and Datdyuk from that list, so that just shows you how far behind Spezza is in his development as a NHL center. The guy has super star tallent but he'll never put it together, not in Ottawa anyways. Way too many mistakes were made with him by the organization and this goes back to the Martin days when he was force fed Spezza by Muckler.

Dave is bang on with everything and on top of that, if Murray ever wants to win a Cup in the NHL, it has to be now and like it or not the best chance of that happening is with Spezza otherwise its a rebuild and he wont be around to see the end results of that. Only problem is the Sens have no shot in hell winning a cup or even making it to the finals again for at least 3, 4, maybe more than 5 years. Today's article, IF TRUE, (thats a big if) has me totally questioning the direction this team is headed in. Not so much for keeping Spezza, I get that, but for the comments made as to why they are keeping him and the related comments to Team Canada.

davetherave wrote:...
If one looks at the performance, and not just in terms of statistics, of four of the top centres playing in this year's Final Four--say Eric Staal, Jonathan Toews, Evgeni Malkin and Henrik Zetterberg--only one of them makes as much as Spezza. All of them are more complete players, and all are 'team first'.

Add Crosby to the mix here I think... but I think to suggest these guys are out of his league is a mistake. Everyone looks good in a good year and bad in a bad year. Malkin was horrible last playoffs. Staal has 60 fewer points in as many games in his career, sure he won the Cup but he can thank Cam Ward for that. Switch Emery for the Ward of his Conne Smythe year and Spezza has a ring too. Toews is going to be great but had 69 pts this year in 82 games and is only 2 years in... Zetterberg is one of the best in the game as is Crosby...

I think it is easy to pick on Spezza but at the end of the day he is one of the top centers in the game and he would play for 29 other teams if we didn't want him.