Schneider still on Murray's radar

Maybe move Mez somewhere for a top 6+ and then bring in Schneider for a song? Could work out that way.

Send Meszaros for Jussi Jokinen plus a prospect/draft pick, and then send a good enough package to land Schneider.

PKC wrote:Maybe move Mez somewhere for a top 6+ and then bring in Schneider for a song? Could work out that way.

Send Meszaros for Jussi Jokinen plus a prospect/draft pick, and then send a good enough package to land Schneider.

Problem is Mesz is an RFA. We only have his rights to offer up in trade. He'd have to agree to be signed by the team we're trading with for a deal to happen. It puts Murray in a tough spot with little leverage and everyone knows it.

People forget that we can simply qualify Meszaros. He isn't worth $3 million , I don't even think he's worth $2 million. The guy can't hit the net more than 20% of the time. It's tough to score when you don't hit the net.

What is our actual cap room (this is to all the cap guru's) cause I've read two places that we have $8.6 million left. Thus if we did get Schneider then that would leave us close to $3 million and that's assumign no one else moves.

Note: I said he is still on the radar and an option Murray is contemplating. Don't shoot the messenger.

PKC wrote:Maybe move Mez somewhere for a top 6+ and then bring in Schneider for a song? Could work out that way.

Send Meszaros for Jussi Jokinen plus a prospect/draft pick, and then send a good enough package to land Schneider.

Don't take this personally but... ewww, no. If we must trade Mesz, I feel very confident that we can get a much bigger return than 1 year of Jussi Jokinen. Mesz is a long-term investment, our potential PPQB for the next 4-5 years; we own him (as an RFA) for the next 3-4 years. We keep him or get a solid, long-term return for him. It doesn't make sense to give up on Mesz right now for one 39-year-old D with a 1-yr deal and one 3rd liner with upside (sorry, but that's what J. Jokenin is at the moment) also on a 1-yr deal.

jamvan wrote:People forget that we can simply qualify Meszaros. He isn't worth $3 million , I don't even think he's worth $2 million. The guy can't hit the net more than 20% of the time. It's tough to score when you don't hit the net.

What is our actual cap room (this is to all the cap guru's) cause I've read two places that we have $8.6 million left. Thus if we did get Schneider then that would leave us close to $3 million and that's assumign no one else moves.

Note: I said he is still on the radar and an option Murray is contemplating. Don't shoot the messenger.

What does that even mean, qualify?

rooneypoo wrote:

PKC wrote:Maybe move Mez somewhere for a top 6+ and then bring in Schneider for a song? Could work out that way.

Send Meszaros for Jussi Jokinen plus a prospect/draft pick, and then send a good enough package to land Schneider.

Don't take this personally but... ewww, no. If we must trade Mesz, I feel very confident that we can get a much bigger return than 1 year of Jussi Jokinen. Mesz is a long-term investment, our potential PPQB for the next 4-5 years; we own him (as an RFA) for the next 3-4 years. We keep him or get a solid, long-term return for him. It doesn't make sense to give up on Mesz right now for one 39-year-old D with a 1-yr deal and one 3rd liner with upside (sorry, but that's what J. Jokenin is at the moment) also on a 1-yr deal.

I only suggested that as an option in case Meszaros and the Senators can't agree on a price tag. He wants 4.5 million now, in his RFA years, supposedly. So, what's he going to ask for in a few years when UFA comes up? My preference is for him to sign with Ottawa, but not for more than he's worth. If he wants to keep being a Wing Dang Doodle about how much money he wants, then ship him out, and get good return on him. Schneider in that situation, who if you've seen my posts I'm pretty set against bringing in anyways, is a short-term solution at best.

jamvan wrote:People forget that we can simply qualify Meszaros. He isn't worth $3 million , I don't even think he's worth $2 million. The guy can't hit the net more than 20% of the time. It's tough to score when you don't hit the net.

What is our actual cap room (this is to all the cap guru's) cause I've read two places that we have $8.6 million left. Thus if we did get Schneider then that would leave us close to $3 million and that's assumign no one else moves.

Note: I said he is still on the radar and an option Murray is contemplating. Don't shoot the messenger.

We've already qualified Mesz, as I understand it. I think it's something we did with all our RFAs back in late June. When you qualify an RFA, all you're doing is ensuring that any team that signs your player to an offer sheet will have to cough up the proper conpensation, as detailed in the CBA.

Mesz has had 3 season of 35+ points. Whether we like it or not -- and I tend to agree with you: at the moment, I don't think Mesz is worth $3+ million -- those kinds of numbers put him among the mid- to high-level defencemen in the league. He will get somewhere around $3 mil / yr almost guaranteed.

Most people (including Garrioch, who isn't paying enough attention to these things) get their cap info from nhlnumbers.com, which lists our current space at $8.7. The problem with that figure is that it isn't factoring in a number of contracts that we have at the moment. They're not adding in Lee ($1.275), who will play for sure, or Nycholat ($550,000) and Winchester ($550,000); that's a total of about $2.375 mil in salary. NHLSCAP.com is more accurate because it factors in these salaries; it lists us as having $6.49 in cap space.

Granted, as wprager has said, the cap number is a little more fluid than these numbers suggest. Right now, we've got 13 F, 6 D, Schubert at F or D, and 2 G. That means we can expect to drop a player or two from the mix (either through demontion to the minors or the trade route) and save ourselves a little money. If I were a guessing man, I'd put us at about $7-7.5 in actual space given that we're probably going to end up with a 20 or 21 man roster. Even with $7.5 in cap space, tho', remember that we need to keep something like $1.5-2 mil in cap space open in the event of call ups for injuries and to have a little leg room come trade deadline day. That means at the very best, we have $5.5 mil to play around with right now -- and that includes signing Mesz.

[EDIT: I should start a cap-thread / blog elsewhere for all this so people can turn to it when they want. I'll look into it.]

On your last point, sorry, don't mean to shoot the messenger. This point has come up so often, tho', and people keep ignoring or forgetting about the financial problems acquiring Schneider would present for our club.

PKC wrote:

I only suggested that as an option in case Meszaros and the Senators can't agree on a price tag. He wants 4.5 million now, in his RFA years, supposedly. So, what's he going to ask for in a few years when UFA comes up? My preference is for him to sign with Ottawa, but not for more than he's worth. If he wants to keep being a Wing Dang Doodle about how much money he wants, then ship him out, and get good return on him. Schneider in that situation, who if you've seen my posts I'm pretty set against bringing in anyways, is a short-term solution at best.

Oh, I hear you, and I agree, if he gets greedy and fixates on a big number we'll have to do something with him. I just think that, if we must trade Mesz, we can do better than J. Jokinen. Like, a lot better.

rooneypoo wrote:

PKC wrote:

I only suggested that as an option in case Meszaros and the Senators can't agree on a price tag. He wants 4.5 million now, in his RFA years, supposedly. So, what's he going to ask for in a few years when UFA comes up? My preference is for him to sign with Ottawa, but not for more than he's worth. If he wants to keep being a Wing Dang Doodle about how much money he wants, then ship him out, and get good return on him. Schneider in that situation, who if you've seen my posts I'm pretty set against bringing in anyways, is a short-term solution at best.

Oh, I hear you, and I agree, if he gets greedy and fixates on a big number we'll have to do something with him. I just think that, if we must trade Mesz, we can do better than J. Jokinen. Like, a lot better.

Oh for sure, it was just a suggestion that helped my point. Also, in regards to your previous post, we will also gain some (not sure how much exactly) cap room when the NHL and PA re-up the CBA as the bonuses that currently count against the cap can be deferred to next year. Might be enough cap space to help offset Winchester's salary for instance.

PKC wrote:

Oh for sure, it was just a suggestion that helped my point. Also, in regards to your previous post, we will also gain some (not sure how much exactly) cap room when the NHL and PA re-up the CBA as the bonuses that currently count against the cap can be deferred to next year. Might be enough cap space to help offset Winchester's salary for instance.

I'm not sure at all what the effects of that move will be, and it should be interesting to see how that changes things league-wide. I don't think we have a lot of guys with bonuses built into their contracts, do we? Maybe Heatley, Spezza, and/or Fisher at most? And even in those instances, those are currently averaged over the life of the contract already, aren't they?

Brian Lee and most of the rookies have bonuses, I believe. Even a savings of 500,000 is better than nothing.

PKC wrote:Brian Lee and most of the rookies have bonuses, I believe. Even a savings of 500,000 is better than nothing.

Oh yea, you're definitely right about Lee, his contract has to have a bonus of $425,000.* Still, $1.275 is his average salary spread over the three years of the deal so I'm not sure if we'll get any relief there. I certainly wouldn't complain if we did, tho'.

I could be wrong, but I think the bonus thing is only an issue for guys who sign contracts this year. There's lots of talk about how it will help create space for Shanahan and Selanne, but I don't remember hearing anything about what it will do for players whose contracts are older than that.

[*Any minor leaguer with a major league salary in between $450,000 (the league minimum) and $850,000 (the league maximun for entry-level deals) is on a contract without any bonuses. Only Lee and Elliott fall in the $850,000+ category and therefore must have bonuses of some kind.]

jamvan wrote:People forget that we can simply qualify Meszaros. He isn't worth $3 million , I don't even think he's worth $2 million. The guy can't hit the net more than 20% of the time. It's tough to score when you don't hit the net.

What is our actual cap room (this is to all the cap guru's) cause I've read two places that we have $8.6 million left. Thus if we did get Schneider then that would leave us close to $3 million and that's assumign no one else moves.

Note: I said he is still on the radar and an option Murray is contemplating. Don't shoot the messenger.

As some have said we already did qualify Meszaros. I don't understand the Meszaros hate though. Yeah he's had 2 so so years but he has the potential to be a top 2 defensemen in the future. He should at least be given the chance to prove himself in Ottawa because I'd hate to see him go elsewhere and see him flourish.

Urkie wrote:

jamvan wrote:People forget that we can simply qualify Meszaros. He isn't worth $3 million , I don't even think he's worth $2 million. The guy can't hit the net more than 20% of the time. It's tough to score when you don't hit the net.

What is our actual cap room (this is to all the cap guru's) cause I've read two places that we have $8.6 million left. Thus if we did get Schneider then that would leave us close to $3 million and that's assumign no one else moves.

Note: I said he is still on the radar and an option Murray is contemplating. Don't shoot the messenger.

As some have said we already did qualify Meszaros. I don't understand the Meszaros hate though. Yeah he's had 2 so so years but he has the potential to be a top 2 defensemen in the future. He should at least be given the chance to prove himself in Ottawa because I'd hate to see him go elsewhere and see him flourish.

And we all agree he should be given a chance, but at what price? He's asking for 4.5 million for goodness' sake, and he's still an RFA. What's he gonna ask for when he hits UFA? Brian Campbell money? More? Its ridiculous. He's still at the stage where he has to prove his worth to this club and start playing some hockey.

If an extension can be agreed upon then send Mez to Florida for Bouwmeester. I am more willing to pay 4.5 to Bow than to Mez at this moment.

I find it really hard to believe that there's any chance of the Sens getting Schneider. Rumours about the Habs getting Matt make so much more sense. They need a PP Q-Back after losing Souray (yeah, a while back) and now Streit; he started his career in Montreal; and Gainey recently said that he's not optimistic about Sundin, so they have room.

wprager wrote:I find it really hard to believe that there's any chance of the Sens getting Schneider. Rumours about the Habs getting Matt make so much more sense. They need a PP Q-Back after losing Souray (yeah, a while back) and now Streit; he started his career in Montreal; and Gainey recently said that he's not optimistic about Sundin, so they have room.

Yeah, the Schneider to MTL rumours seem to make the "most" sense these days if Gainey has moved on from getting Sundin. But, if by some magical move of Cap juggling wizardry Murray can make it all work and hold onto Mesz... then I'd be fine with bringing Schneider in for one year. We'd still be light in our secondary scoring... but perhaps a trade deadline pick-up could fix that down the line. Who knows. With what's left in Cap space, addressing ALL our needs now and holding onto our players is next to impossible.

Shabbs??? WTF? Are you Dashriprock as well? You are confusing me with that Avatar.