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Schneider still on Murray's radar

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shabbs
SensGirl11
Urkie
KidKarlsson
PTFlea
rooneypoo
Cronie
Cap'n Clutch
jamvan
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16Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:50 am

rooneypoo


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Cronenbergfan wrote:I agree! Burke has never truly impressed me; considering,as you said, what he has done with that stacked Anaheim team he inherited from Murray!

I would LOVE to have Kunitz, but as you said, it's a long shot, but there's no denying that Burke has some SERIOUS wheelin' and Dealin' to do in order to get his team cap-friendly and ready to go. Great article by the way, thanks for the link.

I just had a thought. If it's a foregone conclusion that Mezie has NO intention of bolting to Russia, then really unless a team comes out of nowhere and submits an offer sheet, his only options are to sign or sit out. Knowing this, if Murray has a back-up or plan or 2 in place to snag a D man to replace Mezie should he sit (Beauchemin or Schneider, for instance) then since this has been going on and on, I really don't care one way or the other if he sits or cracks and signs for whatever the amount. Of course, this is all banking on Murray making not just a stop-gap solution, but acquiring a solid D man to replace Mezie.

I'd say it's all but guaranteed that Murray has a backup option for Mesz siting. I think they would be a) Schneider and b) Aucoin, for starters -- two guys widely speculated to be available because of the cap situations of their current teams.

I'm optimistic -- say, 80/20 -- that Mesz will sign, tho', sometime in the next 3-4 weeks. We need to remember that, as a RFA, his situation isn't all that uncommon, and that the most common solution to his situation is usually results in a contract settlement somewhere in the middle between what the player originally wanted ($4-4.5 mil?) and what the GM wanted to give him ($2.5-3 mil?). I wrote this elsewhere, but I'll go on the record and prognosticate a contract annoucement for Mesz in the next 3-4 weeks for

a) $3 mil / 1 yr,
b) $3.25 mil / 2 yrs, or
c) $3.5 mil / 3 yrs.

If Murray can save a few dollars or tack on an extra year for those amounts, super, but I expect the final deal will look something like one of those 3 options.

17Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:56 am

PTFlea


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Dawg's Wife wrote:Sitting in line for coffee this morning someone asked me why are all the fans in Ottawa looking for another puck moving defeseman? If they sign Mesz, and we all belive he'll be in camp, then the other PMD (puck moving d-man) in my opinion is Brendan Bell.

I watched him play a lot when he played in Ottawa for the 67's and the few time the Leaf brass had the balls to bring him up and play him he didn't look out of place.

Couple that with the fact that he's been working out like a beast with Tony Greco, and trust me if anyone will have him ready it's Tony, I speak from experience. I think he's the answer to everyone's prayers. In fact I'm going way way out on a limb and stating that with his Skill, Tony's training, and Hartsburgh's coaching Bell will emerge as the best off season signing by Murray this summer.

I would love that, but as Clutch said, we're cautiously optimistic about him. I just think Schneider's the kind of guy that can mentor Lee and make him even better.

18Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:58 am

KidKarlsson


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504Heater wrote:
Dawg's Wife wrote:Sitting in line for coffee this morning someone asked me why are all the fans in Ottawa looking for another puck moving defeseman? If they sign Mesz, and we all belive he'll be in camp, then the other PMD (puck moving d-man) in my opinion is Brendan Bell.

I watched him play a lot when he played in Ottawa for the 67's and the few time the Leaf brass had the balls to bring him up and play him he didn't look out of place.

Couple that with the fact that he's been working out like a beast with Tony Greco, and trust me if anyone will have him ready it's Tony, I speak from experience. I think he's the answer to everyone's prayers. In fact I'm going way way out on a limb and stating that with his Skill, Tony's training, and Hartsburgh's coaching Bell will emerge as the best off season signing by Murray this summer.

I would love that, but as Clutch said, we're cautiously optimistic about him. I just think Schneider's the kind of guy that can mentor Lee and make him even better.

good point, I really feel Lee will be something special. Give him a good role model to teach him the ropes and he can be amazing.

19Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:58 am

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
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Dawg's Wife wrote:
Cap'n' Clutch wrote:
That would be a very nice surprise. I've been cautiously optimistic about this guy.

Just so we're clear this is my opinion. I don't want my husband getting credit for something I've said. I write enough of his drivel on this site as it is.

In terms of potentially decent PMD, it comes down to Bell or Nycholat, doesn't it? I like Schubert a lot, and he can move the puck decently, but he's never going to be a PPQB / 35+ point D in the NHL -- at least I can't see it happening.

If it comes down to Bell and Nycholat, I have to say I think I'm leaning more towards Nycholat. Bell hasn't done anything remarkable in the past 5 seasons or so, at the AHL or the NHL level. Nycholat, meanwhile, had a monster season in Bingo last year -- 49 points in 77 games -- albeit, granted, I know these things don't always translate from AHL to NHL. It was actually your husband you turned me on to this fact in the first place.

If we make no trades and we determine that what we really need is a PMD in that 6th spot and so are willing to go with a weaker D in terms of defensive ability, my guess is that it goes to Nycholat over Bell or Schubert. Bell would be, I think, 2nd in line if Nycholat busts.

20Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:00 am

Urkie

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It wouldn't be very smart to trade for Schneider and let Mez go or lowball him. Schneider would be nice but only if we can sign Mez. I don't think it makes much sense to trade for a 39 year old defensemen and let a 22 year old go. But I'm all for getting Schneider. Just not at the expense of Meszaros.

21Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:01 am

rooneypoo

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504Heater wrote:

I would love that, but as Clutch said, we're cautiously optimistic about him. I just think Schneider's the kind of guy that can mentor Lee and make him even better.

But in all probability, we're not getting Schneider because we can't afford him, even if Mesz signs for less than expected. Don't make me get my calculator out!

:lol!:

22Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:13 am

Cap'n Clutch

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rooneypoo wrote:
504Heater wrote:

I would love that, but as Clutch said, we're cautiously optimistic about him. I just think Schneider's the kind of guy that can mentor Lee and make him even better.

But in all probability, we're not getting Schneider because we can't afford him, even if Mesz signs for less than expected. Don't make me get my calculator squirrel out!

:lol!:

That's what I say to your calculator :lol!: .


_________________
"A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world."

- Unknown Author

23Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:22 am

rooneypoo

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Cap'n' Clutch wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:

But in all probability, we're not getting Schneider because we can't afford him, even if Mesz signs for less than expected. Don't make me get my calculator squirrel out!

:lol!:

That's what I say to your calculator :lol!: .

Ah, now, don't get pissy with my calulator just because he peed all over the Schneider idea, mathematically demolished all arguments to the contrary, and proved the suggestion to be both improbable and financially impractical. He's a good calculator and he saves us all from chasing red-herrings and holding out for moves that our GM can never make.

The numbers don't lie. Even with Mesz at $2 mil, we wouldn't be able to ice a team with the requisite cap space. Hence, there's no chance that we have both Mesz and Schneider on the same team without moving a contract of $2 mil or more. End of story.

24Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:27 am

Urkie

Urkie
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rooneypoo wrote:Ah, now, don't get pissy with my calulator just because he peed all over the Schneider idea, mathematically demolished all arguments to the contrary, and proved the suggestion to be both improbable and financially impractical. He's a good calculator and he saves us all from chasing red-herrings and holding out for moves that our GM can never make.

The numbers don't lie. Even with Mesz at $2 mil, we wouldn't be able to ice a team with the requisite cap space. Hence, there's no chance that we have both Mesz and Schneider on the same team without moving a contract of $2 mil or more. End of story.

Exactly, which is why it won't happen. The only way I see us getting Schneider would be at the trade deadline when his cap hit goes down. If we get Schneider now then that would mean bye bye to Meszaros who is still just 22 for a 39 year old who will be around for maybe one more season. It wouldn't make much sense.

25Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:29 am

rooneypoo

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Urkie wrote:

Exactly, which is why it won't happen. The only way I see us getting Schneider would be at the trade deadline when his cap hit goes down. If we get Schneider now then that would mean bye bye to Meszaros who is still just 22 for a 39 year old who will be around for maybe one more season. It wouldn't make much sense.

New guy, I like you already. Smile

Welcome aboard.

26Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:32 am

Urkie

Urkie
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rooneypoo wrote:
New guy, I like you already. Smile

Welcome aboard.

Thanks :D

I came over from HFboards.

27Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:41 am

Cap'n Clutch

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Urkie wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
New guy, I like you already. Smile

Welcome aboard.

Thanks :D

I came over from HFboards.

Cool a non Hockeybuzz recruit.


_________________
"A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world."

- Unknown Author

28Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:51 am

SensGirl11

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Mod
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Urkie wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:Ah, now, don't get pissy with my calulator just because he peed all over the Schneider idea, mathematically demolished all arguments to the contrary, and proved the suggestion to be both improbable and financially impractical. He's a good calculator and he saves us all from chasing red-herrings and holding out for moves that our GM can never make.

The numbers don't lie. Even with Mesz at $2 mil, we wouldn't be able to ice a team with the requisite cap space. Hence, there's no chance that we have both Mesz and Schneider on the same team without moving a contract of $2 mil or more. End of story.

Exactly, which is why it won't happen. The only way I see us getting Schneider would be at the trade deadline when his cap hit goes down. If we get Schneider now then that would mean bye bye to Meszaros who is still just 22 for a 39 year old who will be around for maybe one more season. It wouldn't make much sense.

Hmmm...interesting, do you think it could happen? I wonder if we can get him at the deadline...mind you whoever picks him up before that, probably won't let him go. And I definitely don't want to lose Mesz for someone that we can only keep for 1 year..

29Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:56 am

rooneypoo

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SensGirl11 wrote:

Hmmm...interesting, do you think it could happen? I wonder if we can get him at the deadline...mind you whoever picks him up before that, probably won't let him go. And I definitely don't want to lose Mesz for someone that we can only keep for 1 year..

It would depend entirely on what team acquires him between now and the start of the season. If a playoff-bound team gets him (like, say, MTL, should they miss out on Sundin), then he stays with that team the whole year; if a non-playoff team gets him (like LA), then there's a very good chance that he's moved at the deadline for picks / prospects. I imagine we'd certainly be gunning for him then.

As of this moment, tho', I have to imagine that a playoff-bound team will make the best offer for Schneider at the moment. They would want to hold onto him all year, whereas a weaker team would be acquiring him with the intention, I imagine, of moving him 6 months later.

30Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:50 pm

shabbs

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rooneypoo wrote:But in all probability, we're not getting Schneider because we can't afford him, even if Mesz signs for less than expected. Don't make me get my calculator out!
Agreed. The math is the math is the math. Schneider in = someone we need out. While I'd like to see us get Schneider and mentor the young bucks, the cap is the cap. It won't fit. If Murray plays "fast and loose" with Mesz, we'll lose him for sure in the end and I believe he's someone we want to hold on to so he can be the puck mover we need down the line.

31Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:52 pm

PKC

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Maybe move Mez somewhere for a top 6+ and then bring in Schneider for a song? Could work out that way.

Send Meszaros for Jussi Jokinen plus a prospect/draft pick, and then send a good enough package to land Schneider.

32Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:57 pm

shabbs

shabbs
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PKC wrote:Maybe move Mez somewhere for a top 6+ and then bring in Schneider for a song? Could work out that way.

Send Meszaros for Jussi Jokinen plus a prospect/draft pick, and then send a good enough package to land Schneider.
Problem is Mesz is an RFA. We only have his rights to offer up in trade. He'd have to agree to be signed by the team we're trading with for a deal to happen. It puts Murray in a tough spot with little leverage and everyone knows it.

33Schneider still on Murray's radar - Page 2 Empty Re: Schneider still on Murray's radar Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:00 pm

jamvan

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People forget that we can simply qualify Meszaros. He isn't worth $3 million , I don't even think he's worth $2 million. The guy can't hit the net more than 20% of the time. It's tough to score when you don't hit the net.

What is our actual cap room (this is to all the cap guru's) cause I've read two places that we have $8.6 million left. Thus if we did get Schneider then that would leave us close to $3 million and that's assumign no one else moves.

Note: I said he is still on the radar and an option Murray is contemplating. Don't shoot the messenger.

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