Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:Look, if Spezza wasn't being paid $ and wearing the 'C', if he was the team's 2nd line center or even a 2B, then there wouldn't be so much hatred in your posts.  You'd probably say the guy's injured again, so we should be really careful about giving him a long-term contract or the 'C'.

Tell me, you never commented on the earlier post about Neil -- in a game against the Leafs, when Kadri takes a run at one of ours, do we need Neil to score a goal or give a Diddle and make some hits?

Winning that game was what was needed.  When I say respond I don't mean going out and punching Kadri out, respond means going out there and doing something on the positive end of things whether that's a big goal, a big hit, fight, play defensively, w/e.  Something where you say "yah, great play, lets see the other guys follow".  It's all relative, making yourself a factor is what needed to be done and Neil did that.  Spezza... he didn't do a damn thing.

We needed Neil to come out and hit.  You won't change my mind on that.  The three points were great for Neil, and Neil only.

Yeah, that's another thing.  Kadri should have been dead by the hand of Neil.  Neil and to a much lesser extent Kassian, had the pulse of the game in their hands and they let Toronto take the momentum and energy.  If you're a fighter and you see something like that - guess what?  It's time to go.

Do you realize how wrong this statement is?  Neil scores 2 and adds a helper in a 3-3 game and you want him to go out and take a penalty that could potentially cost his team the game?  It wasn't time to go and (sorry) that's a stupid comment.  The goal is to win the game at that moment, that's it.  Tie game with 5 mins left is a winnable game and you don't take the dumb penalty.

The game was what was important at the time and other guys should have stepped up, not just Smith's line.

Right now that line has 23 goals combined... pretty sure they will score more than 30.  That's a solid 3rd line on any team in the NHL because they give up nothing defensively for the most part, grind down the D, and can put in the odd goal.  

Tie game with 5 minutes left in the 2nd. You let the little rat Diddler do that, you don't push back and you lose momentum, you lose the handle on the game and it was done. We were so amazingly lucky to have the overhead view on Neil's goal to tie it 3-3. We stopped being physical, we started backing into our own zone. We let them rape us - slowly.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:Look, if Spezza wasn't being paid $ and wearing the 'C', if he was the team's 2nd line center or even a 2B, then there wouldn't be so much hatred in your posts.  You'd probably say the guy's injured again, so we should be really careful about giving him a long-term contract or the 'C'.

Tell me, you never commented on the earlier post about Neil -- in a game against the Leafs, when Kadri takes a run at one of ours, do we need Neil to score a goal or give a Diddle and make some hits?

Winning that game was what was needed.  When I say respond I don't mean going out and punching Kadri out, respond means going out there and doing something on the positive end of things whether that's a big goal, a big hit, fight, play defensively, w/e.  Something where you say "yah, great play, lets see the other guys follow".  It's all relative, making yourself a factor is what needed to be done and Neil did that.  Spezza... he didn't do a damn thing.

We needed Neil to come out and hit.  You won't change my mind on that.  The three points were great for Neil, and Neil only.

Yeah, that's another thing.  Kadri should have been dead by the hand of Neil.  Neil and to a much lesser extent Kassian, had the pulse of the game in their hands and they let Toronto take the momentum and energy.  If you're a fighter and you see something like that - guess what?  It's time to go.

Do you realize how wrong this statement is?  Neil scores 2 and adds a helper in a 3-3 game and you want him to go out and take a penalty that could potentially cost his team the game?  It wasn't time to go and (sorry) that's a stupid comment.  The goal is to win the game at that moment, that's it.  Tie game with 5 mins left is a winnable game and you don't take the dumb penalty.

The game was what was important at the time and other guys should have stepped up, not just Smith's line.

Right now that line has 23 goals combined... pretty sure they will score more than 30.  That's a solid 3rd line on any team in the NHL because they give up nothing defensively for the most part, grind down the D, and can put in the odd goal.  

Tie game with 5 minutes left in the 2nd.  You let the little rat Diddler do that, you don't push back and you lose momentum, you lose the handle on the game and it was done.  We were so amazingly lucky to have the overhead view on Neil's goal to tie it 3-3.  We stopped being physical, we started backing into our own zone.  We let them rape us - slowly.

Right in the bum, eh Spezzer?   

Not arguing that the Sens didn't respond but the Smith line and especially Neil sure did. The goal that night was to win the game, not to punch Kadri's face in... they failed. Spezza being the captain did nothing in a physical manner, nothing in a skillful manner, nothing in an emotional manner to get the Sens going and stay on track. That to me is the most concerning thing in that game.

I can take a mistake like Gryba made, it wasn't because of a lack of effort... sh*t happens and you learn from it. The lack of response is what is the most concerning thing and that starts with your captain. He did nothing.

Just to add to that, in all seriousness how does a captain go back into the room and say "we have to be better and need to respond better than we did" to the team when he was the most pathetic guy out there? How can Spezza possibly hold anyone accountable to him, the coach, or the rest of the team when he's the weak link on many, many nights? The answer is you can't.

NEELY wrote:Not arguing that the Sens didn't respond but the Smith line and especially Neil sure did.  The goal that night was to win the game, not to punch Kadri's face in... they failed.  Spezza being the captain did nothing in a physical manner, nothing in a skillful manner, nothing in an emotional manner to get the Sens going and stay on track.  That to me is the most concerning thing in that game.

I can take a mistake like Gryba made, it wasn't because of a lack of effort... sh*t happens and you learn from it.  The lack of response is what is the most concerning thing and that starts with your captain.  He did nothing.

Pfft. You did nothing.

It's not really Jason Spezza and his 8 PIMs who's gonna do anything. They want to play the game in the trenches, you go into the trenches with them and you plow some rat faced bastards until they cry blood.

I mean...Diddle....it's great that Neil scored 2 goals, but we need him, Kassian and Smith to respond physically and let Kessel and JVR and Kadri know they can't waltz into our zone and do whatever they want - and they particularly can't waltz into the zone, cream Ceci from behind and score the game altering goal.

That's everything that's ever been wrong with the Sens. We get pushed, we don't push back, Toronto hammers us.

Kassian isn't physical and isn't intimidating.

Carkner was a mean female parental unit diddler who beat guys and scared guys. We need guys like that, but with skill.

SpezDispenser wrote:It's not really Jason Spezza and his 8 PIMs who's gonna do anything.  They want to play the game in the trenches, you go into the trenches with them and you plow some rat faced bastards until they cry blood.  

I mean...Diddle....it's great that Neil scored 2 goals, but we need him, Kassian and Smith to respond physically and let Kessel and JVR and Kadri know they can't waltz into our zone and do whatever they want - and they particularly can't waltz into the zone, cream Ceci from behind and score the game altering goal.  

That's everything that's ever been wrong with the Sens.  We get pushed, we don't push back, Toronto hammers us.

Tough to respond physically when you know that the refs are looking for any excuse to send an Ottawa player to the box.

SpezDispenser wrote:It's not really Jason Spezza and his 8 PIMs who's gonna do anything.  They want to play the game in the trenches, you go into the trenches with them and you plow some rat faced bastards until they cry blood.  

I mean...Diddle....it's great that Neil scored 2 goals, but we need him, Kassian and Smith to respond physically and let Kessel and JVR and Kadri know they can't waltz into our zone and do whatever they want - and they particularly can't waltz into the zone, cream Ceci from behind and score the game altering goal.  

That's everything that's ever been wrong with the Sens.  We get pushed, we don't push back, Toronto hammers us.

So why even play him then? The idea of hockey is to win games and to do that you need certain players to show up when it matters and the captain is usually first on that list. Is anyone suggesting Spezza go out there and start hammering bodies? Don't think there was a soul who suggested that. You can respond in other ways than the physical nature and Spezza (along with others) either refused or don't know how to do that. A loss hurts more than a punch in the face on a Saturday night on HNIC and in the playoffs.

Spezza needed to step up and he did anything but. You are and a lot of other people are so focused on revenge you forget there was a game to be won and they failed to do that which is a bigger issue than Kadri not getting knocked out.

Ev wrote:Kassian isn't physical and isn't intimidating.

Carkner was a mean female parental unit diddler who beat guys and scared guys. We need guys like that, but with skill.

Kassian fights, no mean streak. You're right... hardly the reason they lost though.

A guy like Ott in the off season would be fantastic. A guy like Callahan would be fantastic. They need to figure out what they want this team to look like going forward and they are almost there IMO but they need to move on from Spezza before you can overpay for a little grit mixed with some goals/skill.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:It's not really Jason Spezza and his 8 PIMs who's gonna do anything.  They want to play the game in the trenches, you go into the trenches with them and you plow some rat faced bastards until they cry blood.  

I mean...Diddle....it's great that Neil scored 2 goals, but we need him, Kassian and Smith to respond physically and let Kessel and JVR and Kadri know they can't waltz into our zone and do whatever they want - and they particularly can't waltz into the zone, cream Ceci from behind and score the game altering goal.  

That's everything that's ever been wrong with the Sens.  We get pushed, we don't push back, Toronto hammers us.

So why even play him then?  The idea of hockey is to win games and to do that you need certain players to show up when it matters and the captain is usually first on that list.  Is anyone suggesting Spezza go out there and start hammering bodies?  Don't think there was a soul who suggested that.  You can respond in other ways than the physical nature and Spezza (along with others) either refused or don't know how to do that.  A loss hurts more than a punch in the face on a Saturday night on HNIC and in the playoffs.  

Spezza needed to step up and he did anything but.  You are and a lot of other people are so focused on revenge you forget there was a game to be won and they failed to do that which is a bigger issue than Kadri not getting knocked out.  

I never forget that there's a game to be won. Winning sometimes takes making a big statement that that Dung ain't gonna happen anymore to these Ottawa Senators. Alas, it did not.

At that point in that game the only statement to make was "we won't back down" and they folded. The game changed and a lot of the Sens packed it in. Spezza was absolutely the biggest culprit of that and he's the damn captain.

Callahan will be getting 6.5 or more on a 7 year deal... now that's too much.

NEELY wrote:At that point in that game the only statement to make was "we won't back down" and they folded.  The game changed and a lot of the Sens packed it in.  Spezza was absolutely the biggest culprit of that and he's the damn captain.

Hmmm, no I would say the biggest culprits are the big, burly dudes who can lay the smackdown. Once all that Dung went down, I didn't notice any of the stars anymore. We just...folded. We needed Neil or Smith to do something and they didn't. Not that I want them gone or anything, but when the tide turns, sometimes you have to grab momentum by the throat.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:It's not really Jason Spezza and his 8 PIMs who's gonna do anything.  They want to play the game in the trenches, you go into the trenches with them and you plow some rat faced bastards until they cry blood.  

I mean...Diddle....it's great that Neil scored 2 goals, but we need him, Kassian and Smith to respond physically and let Kessel and JVR and Kadri know they can't waltz into our zone and do whatever they want - and they particularly can't waltz into the zone, cream Ceci from behind and score the game altering goal.  

That's everything that's ever been wrong with the Sens.  We get pushed, we don't push back, Toronto hammers us.

So why even play him then?  The idea of hockey is to win games and to do that you need certain players to show up when it matters and the captain is usually first on that list.  Is anyone suggesting Spezza go out there and start hammering bodies?  Don't think there was a soul who suggested that.  You can respond in other ways than the physical nature and Spezza (along with others) either refused or don't know how to do that.  A loss hurts more than a punch in the face on a Saturday night on HNIC and in the playoffs.  

Spezza needed to step up and he did anything but.  You are and a lot of other people are so focused on revenge you forget there was a game to be won and they failed to do that which is a bigger issue than Kadri not getting knocked out.  

Yes, the idea is to win games. But on the team you have many roles. That's why there is a first line, a second line, a checking line, an energy line. It was *YOU* who suggested that Spezza should have done something physical. And we play this team *five* times a year so getting that rat-fink b*st*rd a bloodied nose was absolutely needed, because now he's got the confidence to go out and do it again, and he's emboldened by the lack of response. Kessel and Lupul and Kadri are not the kinds of players who will standout in the playoffs and make space for themselves. You hit them -- hard, and repeatedly -- and they will be a little more reluctant to go to the places where they score from. And you get Kadri in a fight, and if he doesn't, then you go after Kessel or Lupul or JVR. And after a particularly bad beating you lean in and tell them to thank their pal Kadri for being a big Front Bum and not answering *HIS OWN* bell.

Remember what happened to the Habs last year? Why do you think we beat them twice (should have been three times) since then in the regular season? They still remember how badly they were man-handled.

Neil was the best player on the ice, scored 2 goals and added an assist lol... WTF? He did absolutely everything right, the idea was to win that game and he lead by example. Neil almost willed the Sens to the win with his line, how anyone can say Smith and Neil were anything less than impressive against the Leafs is mind boggling. Honestly did you watch the game?

The D was off in the 2nd 1/2 of that game for sure but where was Spezza? If he wasn't -3 I honestly would have had no idea he played. He's the captain in the battle of Ontario and he's been pretty much invisible in every one of the game against the Leafs so far. Spezza was absolutely awful on Saturday night and a huge reason they lost.

Like I said there are other ways to step up and Neil, Smith, and Greening found it. Turris line was unspectacular for sure but Spezza's was useless like it is against the better teams for the most part and was playing defense the whole time.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:It's not really Jason Spezza and his 8 PIMs who's gonna do anything.  They want to play the game in the trenches, you go into the trenches with them and you plow some rat faced bastards until they cry blood.  

I mean...Diddle....it's great that Neil scored 2 goals, but we need him, Kassian and Smith to respond physically and let Kessel and JVR and Kadri know they can't waltz into our zone and do whatever they want - and they particularly can't waltz into the zone, cream Ceci from behind and score the game altering goal.  

That's everything that's ever been wrong with the Sens.  We get pushed, we don't push back, Toronto hammers us.

So why even play him then?  The idea of hockey is to win games and to do that you need certain players to show up when it matters and the captain is usually first on that list.  Is anyone suggesting Spezza go out there and start hammering bodies?  Don't think there was a soul who suggested that.  You can respond in other ways than the physical nature and Spezza (along with others) either refused or don't know how to do that.  A loss hurts more than a punch in the face on a Saturday night on HNIC and in the playoffs.  

Spezza needed to step up and he did anything but.  You are and a lot of other people are so focused on revenge you forget there was a game to be won and they failed to do that which is a bigger issue than Kadri not getting knocked out.  

Yes, the idea is to win games.  But on the team you have many roles.  That's why there is a first line, a second line, a checking line, an energy line.  It was *YOU* who suggested that Spezza should have done something physical.   And we play this team *five* times a year so getting that rat-fink b*st*rd a bloodied nose was absolutely needed, because now he's got the confidence to go out and do it again, and he's emboldened by the lack of response.  Kessel and Lupul and Kadri are not the kinds of players who will standout in the playoffs and make space for themselves.  You hit them -- hard, and repeatedly -- and they will be a little more reluctant to go to the places where they score from.  And you get Kadri in a fight, and if he doesn't, then you go after Kessel or Lupul or JVR.  And after a particularly bad beating you lean in and tell them to thank their pal Kadri for being a big Front Bum and not answering *HIS OWN* bell.

Remember what happened to the Habs last year?  Why do you think we beat them twice (should have been three times) since then in the regular season?  They still remember how badly they were man-handled.

Guess who wasn't in the lineup when they played the Habs? Oh yah, the real Ottawa Senators.

Yah, Spezza had to do something, ANYTHING to make sure he made an impact on the game. Be it being physical in some way, making a play, blocking a shot, but he won't. Once in a while (and I mean once a year max) he will do something like he did against Nashville which is great to see... but there's a reason they call him Nessy.

Captains are supposed to be there when the team needs them most and Saturday night was when they really needed Spezza to step up and do something. He did anything but and it's just a small example of what has dogged him his whole career.

It just goes round and round arguing with you sometimes. I want our big guys to come out and absolutely crunch bodies the shift after that Ceci/Kadri BS. Line match my Donkey, get out there and make them shrink a bit.

That didn't happen, they gained confidence, we lost. Spezza isn't solely to blame here, there's coaching errors at work, there's a lot at work. They have to wake up and realize that being pushed around in this league is a way to lose every single time.