GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Boston Bruins - 7:00pm ET - Sat. Nov. 28th, 2009 PLUS post game thoughts

N4L wrote:http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Brian_Lee

Kinda wierd.

That mix up has been around for a long while.... like, since before Sportsnet changed their site. Old / non-news, for better or worse.

Well then...

N4L wrote:I would absolutely trade Spezza because his mistakes are mental and he's been doing the same things for over 6 years now. Injured or not he isnt changing, especially when things dont go his way.

How does being injured effect his ability to get the puck deep and not make a drop pass at the blueline with no one there?

Not winning battles in the corner I cna see, not winning faceoffs (which he actually is doing) I could see. Hos back might be sore, he isnt injured.

Spezza to this day has never been a leader, a winner, a team guy, or anything resembling a guy you can count on when the team needs a guy to step up. He's played with 2 of the best wingers in the world basically his whole career and his stats and points are 100% inflated because of it. He's a border line 1st line center at best and on about 65-70% of the teams in this league he's a 2nd line center. Ottawa is one of them.

Sens wont suffer without Spezza in the present and would be better off in the short and distant future.

He was doing that pretty well at the beginning of the season, but the points were not coming, but I liked it.
And that's a problem coz he probably thinks he was doing something wrong.

Anyways, something wrong and It's starting to get me fed up.

N4L wrote:

asq2 wrote:He's injured. It's pretty obvious he is.

Injured and hurting are 2 different things. You play hurt and at 7 million dollars you play hurt and you better be effective.

His mistake are mental, not physical.

You don't think physical pain affects your mentality?
Also, I love Fisher and I hate saying that but can you guarantee he'll keep up his hot performance for the next 2+ season and be our #1 center?

Also, we may never become as good as Philly and the Blackhawks but right now, no team has been as good as the Sharks for the past 2 years or so and yet they've all gone further than them.

He has the same back issues and pains after camp and he was doing it... so no. In Spezza case as his past history shows (and hitory repeats itself) when things dont go HIS way (not the teams) he does dumb things, gets selfish, does his on ice mopping, gives up in plays, so on. It's what he does.

People love comparing him to Yzerman, well Yxerman played almost an entire NHL season with one friggin leg... and the same people will say Spezza is sore. BS. He's being paid 7 million dollars a year, deal with it.

As for Fisher, he's a better player then Spezza so even if he cant keep it up, The Sens are stil a better team with him front and center then Spezza without 2 PPG wingers holding his hand.

So this is how I look at it. Spezza was injured after camp, that's a fact, yet he was doing things needed to become an effective all around player. Now, he doesnt have the points and goal totals he wants and his injuries are causing him to be a moron? Not buying it.

People loooooove to make excuses for that guy. He's not a 1st line center, he's not a top player, he's no a leader, he's not a 7 million dollar player, he's not a player you can count on, and he's not someone who can build a team around.

N4L wrote:He has the same back issues and pains after camp and he was doing it... so no. In Spezza case as his past history shows (and hitory repeats itself) when things dont go HIS way (not the teams) he does dumb things, gets selfish, does his on ice mopping, gives up in plays, so on. It's what he does.

People love comparing him to Yzerman, well Yxerman played almost an entire NHL season with one friggin leg... and the same people will say Spezza is sore. BS. He's being paid 7 million dollars a year, deal with it.

As for Fisher, he's a better player then Spezza so even if he cant keep it up, The Sens are stil a better team with him front and center then Spezza without 2 PPG wingers holding his hand.

Whoa whoa, HUUUGE Yzerman fan here and please no Spezza/Yzerman comparisons here, that's just an insult.

I agree with the mopping crap and all but at the end of the day, points win you games and he CAN get them and he can evolve into a better player. My patience is wearing thin but I still think its doable. He's not a guy you can build a team around and probably never will be, but I think he can be a much effective player than he is now

I just don't see trading away your #1 goal scorer and then your #1 center(I guess we should say past #1 now) in the same season can do us any good.

Sens19 wrote:

N4L wrote:

asq2 wrote:He's injured. It's pretty obvious he is.

Injured and hurting are 2 different things. You play hurt and at 7 million dollars you play hurt and you better be effective.

His mistake are mental, not physical.

You don't think physical pain affects your mentality?
Also, I love Fisher and I hate saying that but can you guarantee he'll keep up his hot performance for the next 2+ season and be our #1 center?

Also, we may never become as good as Philly and the Blackhawks but right now, no team has been as good as the Sharks for the past 2 years or so and yet they've all gone further than them.

Sharks have no depth, that's why they suck in the post season. 3rd line wins the cup, actually CBC just talked about that today.

CHicago and Philly's depth is scary, and they are still kids.

This is friggin nuts!

Some of you are making it sound like Spezza is the worse player/contract on the Sens!!!

Maybe I'm missing something but last time I checked star centers aren't easy to obtain or draft.....

The fact we're fighting for top of our division should be enough for everyone to be patient and not panic when we lose to Boston.

Spezza up until lately has been an amazing two-way player, obviously we'd like him to score more, but it takes players time to find the balance between solid defensive play and scoring.

Spezza also has 15 points this season.....not actually a bad number at all.

So Gagner has 16 points, one more than Spezza...that doesn't make Gagner the better player, and from the games I've seen of Edmonton Gagner is pretty lousy in his own end...oh and did I mention Gagner's 16 points have come in 26 games....4 more than Spezza's played?

People Wing Dang Doodle when Spezza didn't play defensively, Wing Dang Doodle when he didn't score, has one truely awful game (with the majority of the team) and lets trade him for Gagner and a prospect? Maybe this is why we haven't had great luck signing UFA's and maybe this is a big part of Heater leaving.

We're rebuilding, Spezza has a lingering injury obviously, we're missing our top shutdown d-man and we're battling for 1st in our division......this isn't that bad of a situation.

Weather the storm, our D is coming, we have potential top-sixers playing in sweden right now and our goaltending is at a franchise best right now (in terms of talent and depth).

We're REBUILDING, lets not act like Toronto fans and Wing Dang Doodle till we phuck up the rebuild.

Sens19 wrote:

N4L wrote:He has the same back issues and pains after camp and he was doing it... so no. In Spezza case as his past history shows (and hitory repeats itself) when things dont go HIS way (not the teams) he does dumb things, gets selfish, does his on ice mopping, gives up in plays, so on. It's what he does.

People love comparing him to Yzerman, well Yxerman played almost an entire NHL season with one friggin leg... and the same people will say Spezza is sore. BS. He's being paid 7 million dollars a year, deal with it.

As for Fisher, he's a better player then Spezza so even if he cant keep it up, The Sens are stil a better team with him front and center then Spezza without 2 PPG wingers holding his hand.

Whoa whoa, HUUUGE Yzerman fan here and please no Spezza/Yzerman comparisons here, that's just an insult.

I agree with the mopping crap and all but at the end of the day, points win you games and he CAN get them and he can evolve into a better player. My patience is wearing thin but I still think its doable. He's not a guy you can build a team around and probably never will be, but I think he can be a much effective player than he is now

I just don't see trading away your #1 goal scorer and then your #1 center(I guess we should say past #1 now) in the same season can do us any good.

1, hard work wins games the points come. 2, he wont evolve into a better player because he isnt capable of playing the game needed to do that.

Trade your number 1 goals scorer and "number 1 center", so what? Is the team better after trading Heatley? 100% are. Is Spezza the difference between winning and losing right now, he 100% isnt.

The hard work of Fisher, Michalek, Alfi, Phillips and Kuba are. The dedication to get better and work their asses off like Picard, Carkner, Elliott, Regin, and even Shannon are. Guys like Cheechoo who are not having a good season and are having a lot of trouble are still putting that effort in and changing their game a little so they can at least be effective and help the team. Kovalev, meh, w/e, he's herre 2 years tops and can win a game by himself when he wants to, also making 2 mil less then Spezza. That guy is what he is.

Only guy this year who has actually become worse is Spezza.

marakh wrote:

Sens19 wrote:

N4L wrote:

asq2 wrote:He's injured. It's pretty obvious he is.

Injured and hurting are 2 different things. You play hurt and at 7 million dollars you play hurt and you better be effective.

His mistake are mental, not physical.

You don't think physical pain affects your mentality?
Also, I love Fisher and I hate saying that but can you guarantee he'll keep up his hot performance for the next 2+ season and be our #1 center?

Also, we may never become as good as Philly and the Blackhawks but right now, no team has been as good as the Sharks for the past 2 years or so and yet they've all gone further than them.

Sharks have no depth, that's why they suck in the post season. 3rd line wins the cup, actually CBC just talked about that today.

CHicago and Philly's depth is scary, and they are still kids.

Agreed about Chicago. I refuse to praise Philly cause I hate them so much and i hope they falter and fail miserably this season, I like Carter and Richards but outside of that I just can't stand the team, but I do get your point. All I'm saying is that if we're going to tradr Spezza, I would rather it be for a player that can help us be better now and be the difference between us being an average team and a great team and not just some kids and prospects

M_Christopher wrote:This is friggin nuts!

Some of you are making it sound like Spezza is the worse player/contract on the Sens!!!

Maybe I'm missing something but last time I checked star centers aren't easy to obtain or draft.....

The fact we're fighting for top of our division should be enough for everyone to be patient and not panic when we lose to Boston.

Spezza up until lately has been an amazing two-way player, obviously we'd like him to score more, but it takes players time to find the balance between solid defensive play and scoring.

Spezza also has 15 points this season.....not actually a bad number at all.

So Gagner has 16 points, one more than Spezza...that doesn't make Gagner the better player, and from the games I've seen of Edmonton Gagner is pretty lousy in his own end...oh and did I mention Gagner's 16 points have come in 26 games....4 more than Spezza's played?

People Wing Dang Doodle when Spezza didn't play defensively, Wing Dang Doodle when he didn't score, has one truely awful game (with the majority of the team) and lets trade him for Gagner and a prospect? Maybe this is why we haven't had great luck signing UFA's and maybe this is a big part of Heater leaving.

We're rebuilding, Spezza has a lingering injury obviously, we're missing our top shutdown d-man and we're battling for 1st in our division......this isn't that bad of a situation.

Weather the storm, our D is coming, we have potential top-sixers playing in sweden right now and our goaltending is at a franchise best right now (in terms of talent and depth).

We're REBUILDING, lets not act like Toronto fans and Wing Dang Doodle till we phuck up the rebuild.

He is the worst contract on the team, maybe the worst in The NHL.

2 way game? Last time I checked two way players score. His defense improved and his offense was non exsistant. He's not a 2 way player, never will be. Defense will suffer or offense will.

At 7 million dollars per year, its awful.

Gagner doing the dirty things to get those points makes him a better player, his ability to learn, listen, and trust his team mates, coaches, and his father make him a better player, and his overall mentality make him a better player.

He had it at the begining of the year too and he wasnt doing the things he is doing right now... so why now? Easy answer.

Boston rebuilt too and they got rid of their lemon of a center too.

N4L wrote:

M_Christopher wrote:This is friggin nuts!

Some of you are making it sound like Spezza is the worse player/contract on the Sens!!!

Maybe I'm missing something but last time I checked star centers aren't easy to obtain or draft.....

The fact we're fighting for top of our division should be enough for everyone to be patient and not panic when we lose to Boston.

Spezza up until lately has been an amazing two-way player, obviously we'd like him to score more, but it takes players time to find the balance between solid defensive play and scoring.

Spezza also has 15 points this season.....not actually a bad number at all.

So Gagner has 16 points, one more than Spezza...that doesn't make Gagner the better player, and from the games I've seen of Edmonton Gagner is pretty lousy in his own end...oh and did I mention Gagner's 16 points have come in 26 games....4 more than Spezza's played?

People Wing Dang Doodle when Spezza didn't play defensively, Wing Dang Doodle when he didn't score, has one truely awful game (with the majority of the team) and lets trade him for Gagner and a prospect? Maybe this is why we haven't had great luck signing UFA's and maybe this is a big part of Heater leaving.

We're rebuilding, Spezza has a lingering injury obviously, we're missing our top shutdown d-man and we're battling for 1st in our division......this isn't that bad of a situation.

Weather the storm, our D is coming, we have potential top-sixers playing in sweden right now and our goaltending is at a franchise best right now (in terms of talent and depth).

We're REBUILDING, lets not act like Toronto fans and Wing Dang Doodle till we phuck up the rebuild.

He is the worst contract on the team, maybe the worst in The NHL.

2 way game? Last time I checked two way players score. His defense improved and his offense was non exsistant. He's not a 2 way player, never will be. Defense will suffer or offense will.

At 7 million dollars per year, its awful.

Gagner doing the dirty things to get those points makes him a better player, his ability to learn, listen, and trust his team mates, coaches, and his father make him a better player, and his overall mentality make him a better player.

He had it at the begining of the year too and he wasnt doing the things he is doing right now... so why now? Easy answer.

Boston rebuilt too and they got rid of their lemon of a center too.

You don't think Thornton is a good center either?? Gagne will become a really good player, he is NOT better than Spezza now. Nobody on the Oilers team is right now with the exception of Penner. There's no way a player can play well while being injured mental or physical it's going to show. Yes I get the point he's been doing the same thing his whole career, but from the end of last season and through the beginning of this season he has shown he CAN improve and getting injured doesn't help your transition game. Like I said, sit him after the Western trip to ail his injuries (and yes Im 100% convinced he's injured) and he WILL play better

M_Christopher wrote:This is friggin nuts!

Some of you are making it sound like Spezza is the worse player/contract on the Sens!!!

Maybe I'm missing something but last time I checked star centers aren't easy to obtain or draft.....

The fact we're fighting for top of our division should be enough for everyone to be patient and not panic when we lose to Boston.

Spezza up until lately has been an amazing two-way player, obviously we'd like him to score more, but it takes players time to find the balance between solid defensive play and scoring.

Spezza also has 15 points this season.....not actually a bad number at all.

So Gagner has 16 points, one more than Spezza...that doesn't make Gagner the better player, and from the games I've seen of Edmonton Gagner is pretty lousy in his own end...oh and did I mention Gagner's 16 points have come in 26 games....4 more than Spezza's played?

People Wing Dang Doodle when Spezza didn't play defensively, Wing Dang Doodle when he didn't score, has one truely awful game (with the majority of the team) and lets trade him for Gagner and a prospect? Maybe this is why we haven't had great luck signing UFA's and maybe this is a big part of Heater leaving.

We're rebuilding, Spezza has a lingering injury obviously, we're missing our top shutdown d-man and we're battling for 1st in our division......this isn't that bad of a situation.

Weather the storm, our D is coming, we have potential top-sixers playing in sweden right now and our goaltending is at a franchise best right now (in terms of talent and depth).

We're REBUILDING, lets not act like Toronto fans and Wing Dang Doodle till we phuck up the rebuild.

Spezza trade talkshave nothing to do with the team for themost part. I'm quite happy with where the team is headed, but long term with the Spezza of the moment we're not going anywhere. Can you find me a 7 million player in the league who is worse than Spezza? I can't find one.

1, Spezza will never be as good as Thornton, 2, Boston traded him because they didnt think they could win with him and so far, they have been right and are probably close to the same level as The Sharks when healthy. Thornton has a hart trophy and a scoring title... Spezza wont ever get there, not even close, hell, he may never see a frigging all star game again.

As far as him improving, where has he improved? People want Spezza to play defense, awesome, he was and doing it very well but it's become pretty clear he cant put up the points expected or anywhere near it when he does. No one expected Spezza to become John Madden, they expected him to be responsible with the puck, make sure he does his job in his own zone, and back check hard, that's it. If he cant do that and not produce at a near PPG pace, it's wasting cap space.

Whether he is injured or not The Sens are better off without him in the long run.

N4L wrote:

M_Christopher wrote:This is friggin nuts!

Some of you are making it sound like Spezza is the worse player/contract on the Sens!!!

Maybe I'm missing something but last time I checked star centers aren't easy to obtain or draft.....

The fact we're fighting for top of our division should be enough for everyone to be patient and not panic when we lose to Boston.

Spezza up until lately has been an amazing two-way player, obviously we'd like him to score more, but it takes players time to find the balance between solid defensive play and scoring.

Spezza also has 15 points this season.....not actually a bad number at all.

So Gagner has 16 points, one more than Spezza...that doesn't make Gagner the better player, and from the games I've seen of Edmonton Gagner is pretty lousy in his own end...oh and did I mention Gagner's 16 points have come in 26 games....4 more than Spezza's played?

People Wing Dang Doodle when Spezza didn't play defensively, Wing Dang Doodle when he didn't score, has one truely awful game (with the majority of the team) and lets trade him for Gagner and a prospect? Maybe this is why we haven't had great luck signing UFA's and maybe this is a big part of Heater leaving.

We're rebuilding, Spezza has a lingering injury obviously, we're missing our top shutdown d-man and we're battling for 1st in our division......this isn't that bad of a situation.

Weather the storm, our D is coming, we have potential top-sixers playing in sweden right now and our goaltending is at a franchise best right now (in terms of talent and depth).

We're REBUILDING, lets not act like Toronto fans and Wing Dang Doodle till we phuck up the rebuild.

He is the worst contract on the team, maybe the worst in The NHL.

2 way game? Last time I checked two way players score. His defense improved and his offense was non exsistant. He's not a 2 way player, never will be. Defense will suffer or offense will.

At 7 million dollars per year, its awful.

Gagner doing the dirty things to get those points makes him a better player, his ability to learn, listen, and trust his team mates, coaches, and his father make him a better player, and his overall mentality make him a better player.

He had it at the begining of the year too and he wasnt doing the things he is doing right now... so why now? Easy answer.

Boston rebuilt too and they got rid of their lemon of a center too.

First - Since your the first to attack posters for saying something blatently dumb I'll return the favour. Your an idiot if you honestly believe Spezza is among the worst contracts in the NHL.

Second - Last time I checked assists count towards scoring/producing. If not Marc Savard is one of the worst two-way centers in history apparently.

Third - So pretty much once in the last 10 years, a team traded a star player entering thier prime and it panned out well for the team...eventually and indirectly panned out.

I'm likely missing a trade or two, but there is a reason why 25-26 year old star-calibre players aren't traded often.

Put I'm pretty much wasting my time posting a response to you Nelly, because you've already written Spezza off. I'd bet if Spezza put up 80+ points this season and was sound defensively you'd still complain about some aspect of his game.

N4L wrote:1, Spezza will never be as good as Thornton, 2, Boston traded him because they didnt think they could win with him and so far, they have been right and are probably close to the same level as The Sharks when healthy. Thornton has a hart trophy and a scoring title... Spezza wont ever get there, not even close, hell, he may never see a frigging all star game again.

As far as him improving, where has he improved? People want Spezza to play defense, awesome, he was and doing it very well but it's become pretty clear he cant put up the points expected or anywhere near it when he does.

Whether he is injured or not The Sens are better off without him in the long run.

I never said Spezza will be as good as Thornton, you just seemed to say that Thornton wasn't that good and I was wondering about that and I think I got my answer in your reply. Spezza is not a natural two player and never will be so you'd expect him to take a while to balance the two (offense + defense) and to be fair he never had the stable coaching in his career as he does now so technically the transition has only started from the Clouston era

And also, do you honestly think the Bruins are THAT good?? I just don't see it

marakh wrote: Can you find me a 7 million player in the league who is worse than Spezza? I can't find one.

Drury, Gomez, Campbell, some would argue Lecavalier, and Eric Staal's been fairly marginal this season as well.

Brad Richards has been every season post-lock-out except this one.