Kuba To be Back against the panthers...?

If he gets sent down he wont be back, garenteed. It's to save a year on his ELC right now, that's it. If thats the resoning behind it, I'm against it unless they truly believe he isnt progressing or getting better.

I'll be really skeptical of what's going on if he does. If Clouston wont play him then Murray has to send him down doesnt he? It's Clouston's call not Murray's when you think about it.

N4L wrote:

Gohan wrote:

N4L wrote:I agree with that but there is a point where it becomes stuborness and I think it's there right now.

9 games... stubborness comes closer to the 40 game mark. The guy is working towards something. Let him work

The decision they make with Karlsson will be a good idication of the where this team and Clouston wants to go with it. It is/should be a building year on every level. Having guys in the lineup like Shannon over Donovan IMO, is a step backwads.

Thats a tactical decision gone wrong. Donovan's presence (moreover, the 4th lines presence---the true 4th line) has never been more evident than it was over the weekend (Thurs-Sat).

We agree on Karlsson, but I'll be a little more reserved in my judgment. The effects, at this point, would be unknown. As I said, it might be just what he needs...assuming its a short-term assignment.

For things to really look as good as they possibly can in Ottawa I think you have to pair Karlsson wiht Kuba and get Donovan back on that 4th line. That solves a lot of problems and basically takes Shannon off the point on a crappy PP.

N4L wrote:If he gets sent down he wont be back, garenteed. It's to save a year on his ELC right now, that's it. If thats the resoning behind it, I'm against it unless they truly believe he isnt progressing or getting better.

I'll be really skeptical of what's going on if he does. If Clouston wont play him then Murray has to send him down doesnt he? It's Clouston's call not Murray's when you think about it.

No, its Murray's call. Also, I think they're on the same page... If Murray thinks it makes long-term, organizational sense to have Karlsson play through this first year of his ELC, then he would ensure that he plays it.

I'm pretty solidly against the idea of saving a year on the ELC simply because I'd prefer a stagger in the Karlsson-Cowen renewal years. Other than that, I think Karlsson has made substantial progress, although I do see him losing his connection to the game too often. He seems to be doing what those youngsters do when they're trying to watch the game and play it at the same time. It doesn't work, but they end up better for it, in the end. Happens all the time, but it would be better for him to do it in the 'A'...

I'll be skeptical too, if it happens, but I still trust that they know whats going on more than we do. Also, in the last two games, I've seen a distinct difference between Karlsson and Picard/Campoli. The two "veterans" have been clearly more comfortable and reliable. Prior to that series of games, Campoli was a slam dunk to leave the lineup Imo (and I-your-o) but now, I can't say for sure who I would take out of the lineup. It would probably be Karlsson. Would I demote him? Probably not. Injuries happen. I'd wait and see for a couple games. Let him watch for a couple games...then make my decision. Either someone will play/injure themselves out of the lineup or he will have to take a bus for a month.

N4L wrote:For things to really look as good as they possibly can in Ottawa I think you have to pair Karlsson wiht Kuba and get Donovan back on that 4th line. That solves a lot of problems and basically takes Shannon off the point on a crappy PP.

Yeah but sometimes the appearance of success is a mask. Look at the 13-1 start from 07-08: Were they really that good? Or was it that everything was basically the same for them, while other teams were still getting adjusted?

I stand by the "building towards something" theory. If they make some mistakes along the way or do some things that cost us in the short-term, I'm okay with it

I dunno, still not too impressed with Campoli this year. This is a guy they expected HUGE things from going forward and he hasnt been that PP powerhouse they really expected him to be. That being said I dont think he has had much of a chance because of Shannon...

How the hell does this keep coming back to Shannon?

Gohan wrote:

N4L wrote:For things to really look as good as they possibly can in Ottawa I think you have to pair Karlsson wiht Kuba and get Donovan back on that 4th line. That solves a lot of problems and basically takes Shannon off the point on a crappy PP.

Yeah but sometimes the appearance of success is a mask. Look at the 13-1 start from 07-08: Were they really that good? Or was it that everything was basically the same for them, while other teams were still getting adjusted?

I stand by the "building towards something" theory. If they make some mistakes along the way or do some things that cost us in the short-term, I'm okay with it

I am too but the biggest building blocks in Ottawa are Michalek, Spezza, Leclaire, and Karlsson. Those are the 4 pieces that I think need to play, learn, and improve more than anyone.

N4L wrote:I dunno, still not too impressed with Campoli this year. This is a guy they expected HUGE things from going forward and he hasnt been that PP powerhouse they really expected him to be. That being said I dont think he has had much of a chance because of Shannon...

How the hell does this keep coming back to Shannon?

PP powerhouse? In what world? You guys weren't really expecting that, were you?

Campoli is a dime-a-dozen player. I relate him to a PK Subban, with greater defensive awareness. He doesn't have gamebreaking ability and he isn't a very good player. Picard has greater upside than he does (Imo). Campoli may end up being a Brian Campbell, but he may also end up being nothing. Too many question marks to throw my support behind him. (He's still more ready than Karlsson. Thats all I'm saying. Is it better to play him than to play Karlsson? You're argument seems to suggest so, believe it or not.)

It keeps coming bakc to Shannon because you can't sleep at night wondering why Clouston is such a moron!!!

N4L wrote:

Gohan wrote:

N4L wrote:For things to really look as good as they possibly can in Ottawa I think you have to pair Karlsson wiht Kuba and get Donovan back on that 4th line. That solves a lot of problems and basically takes Shannon off the point on a crappy PP.

Yeah but sometimes the appearance of success is a mask. Look at the 13-1 start from 07-08: Were they really that good? Or was it that everything was basically the same for them, while other teams were still getting adjusted?

I stand by the "building towards something" theory. If they make some mistakes along the way or do some things that cost us in the short-term, I'm okay with it

I am too but the biggest building blocks in Ottawa are Michalek, Spezza, Leclaire, and Karlsson. Those are the 4 pieces that I think need to play, learn, and improve more than anyone.

Sure...so why play Karlsson where he's good (PP)? Why not play him where he's in tough (with Campoli)? Same argument as making Spezza kill penalties or ... I dunno ... backcheck. Its to make him a better player. Not just exploit his strengths for immediate gain.

Karlsson will get his chances on the PP. In the meantime, he needs to earn it. I think thats the heart of Clouston's message.

N4L wrote:I dunno, still not too impressed with Campoli this year. This is a guy they expected HUGE things from going forward and he hasnt been that PP powerhouse they really expected him to be. That being said I dont think he has had much of a chance because of Shannon...

How the hell does this keep coming back to Shannon?

Cause you've replaced your unhealthy amount of hate for Spezza with Shannon?

Giving up a 1st for him, FOR SURE Murray was expecting him to be an absolute stud on the PP for them. Remember that first was originally traded for Boyle, that's how I look at it. They expected pretty big things from him.

No shot I play Campoli over Karlsson. No upside to sitting Karlsson at all. Also, Karlsson can play that right side with Kuba, Campoli cannot and that is a huge difference maker believe it or not.

The way the defence is build with Kuba is pretty close to picture perfect in Ottawa right now as far as the players we currently have. Kuba being paired with Karlsson is exactly what The Sens and Karlsson need.

I have really learned to hate Shannon because of this last week. He hasnt earned a thing besides the 1 way contract he already recieved.

M_Christopher wrote:

N4L wrote:I dunno, still not too impressed with Campoli this year. This is a guy they expected HUGE things from going forward and he hasnt been that PP powerhouse they really expected him to be. That being said I dont think he has had much of a chance because of Shannon...

How the hell does this keep coming back to Shannon?

Cause you've replaced your unhealthy amount of hate for Spezza with Shannon?

Maybe... Shannon is def my whipping boy. Still dont get how you can have 0 points on the top PP unit with some time on thet top 3 lines while a guy like Donovan gets the shaft... At least Clouston was talking about scratching Shannon today on the radio which was nice to hear... about friggin time.

M_Christopher wrote:
Cause you've replaced your unhealthy amount of hate for Spezza with Shannon?

Gohan wrote:

N4L wrote:

Gohan wrote:

N4L wrote:For things to really look as good as they possibly can in Ottawa I think you have to pair Karlsson wiht Kuba and get Donovan back on that 4th line. That solves a lot of problems and basically takes Shannon off the point on a crappy PP.

Yeah but sometimes the appearance of success is a mask. Look at the 13-1 start from 07-08: Were they really that good? Or was it that everything was basically the same for them, while other teams were still getting adjusted?

I stand by the "building towards something" theory. If they make some mistakes along the way or do some things that cost us in the short-term, I'm okay with it

I am too but the biggest building blocks in Ottawa are Michalek, Spezza, Leclaire, and Karlsson. Those are the 4 pieces that I think need to play, learn, and improve more than anyone.

Sure...so why play Karlsson where he's good (PP)? Why not play him where he's in tough (with Campoli)? Same argument as making Spezza kill penalties or ... I dunno ... backcheck. Its to make him a better player. Not just exploit his strengths for immediate gain.

Karlsson will get his chances on the PP. In the meantime, he needs to earn it. I think thats the heart of Clouston's message.

You gotta give the kid a chance to succeed. Im not saying give him all the PP mins he can handle, but you gotta make sure he has the ability to do what he does well. Throw him in the fire for sure, but you cant take the things he's good at away.

Spezza was put on the PK, but he wasnt taken off the PP either.

Difference being that Karlsson hasn't earned the PP yet. He will. You were saying by January, he'd be #1 unit (or else!) and I was saying end of November... Still, it doesn't mean he gets slotted there immediately. He's had a chance to play on the 2nd unit (although, if you didn't know better, you'd swear it was the 1st) and he'll soon be a fixture on the 1st unit.

I agree that Kuba-Karlsson makes the most sense, but I don't stand by just handing him whatever he wants. Assuming I understand Clous process, I back it.

That's fair and he does have to earn it... right now I think he is. I think he and Kuba (pending a possible demotion) will be the guys running that PP in short order.

Kuba getting hurt really screwed with the process thus far but Picard got a golden opportunity and ran with it. So, not all bad.

I'm not sure anymore what Sens have to do with all their extra bodies. I fear it's easier to send Karlsson back rather than trade/bench players on 1-way contracts.

I think Donovan is best on the 4th line, so we've still got a problem with Shannon + Winchester.

Who knows, could be anyone. Big time jam right now but that's not a bad thing.