General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

tim1_2 wrote:I'm guessing the only way that they get canned (Chevy and Quenville) is if they can terminate their contracts and not have to pay anymore...which I imagine would be a difficult path to go down.  

Shameful Dung.

Can the NHL suspend coaches/GMs?

I don’t think there’s enough evidence to support either being suspended (from the league and teams point of view). The blame lies way more on management and other staff IMO

Sorry i meant fired - I think they could be suspended a bit for sure

Babcock was fired. Peters was fired. Of course they were not leading the Division and one of the remaining undefeated teams. Always easier to fire a coach who's not doing well. I would be surprised if he was fired or even suspended; but it would be the right move.

Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well. It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs. And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable. I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability. He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability.  He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

The allegations may be unproven, but the sweeping it under the rug is something they all chose to do at the time, including Quenville. It doesn't even matter if the allegations would prove false, choosing to do nothing is unforgiveable and should be prosecutable let alone fireable.

For the players, I mean, you have to read the reams of documentation released about this to really get a feel for it, but there was an incident three or four years later where a Blackhawks player called the victim a "f*****t" on the ice and asked him if he enjoyed the blowjob. So, at least some of the players knew...and you don't think the veteran leaders would've been in the know? I don't buy it for a second.

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability.  He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

The allegations may be unproven, but the sweeping it under the rug is something they all chose to do at the time, including Quenville.  It doesn't even matter if the allegations would prove false, choosing to do nothing is unforgiveable and should be prosecutable let alone fireable.

For the players, I mean, you have to read the reams of documentation released about this to really get a feel for it, but there was an incident three or four years later where a Blackhawks player called the victim a "f*****t" on the ice and asked him if he enjoyed the blowjob.  So, at least some of the players knew...and you don't think the veteran leaders would've been in the know?  I don't buy it for a second.  

It’s not their job to report something like that. The coach should have been fired right away. What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself. This isn’t a minor.

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability.  He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

The allegations may be unproven, but the sweeping it under the rug is something they all chose to do at the time, including Quenville.  It doesn't even matter if the allegations would prove false, choosing to do nothing is unforgiveable and should be prosecutable let alone fireable.

For the players, I mean, you have to read the reams of documentation released about this to really get a feel for it, but there was an incident three or four years later where a Blackhawks player called the victim a "f*****t" on the ice and asked him if he enjoyed the blowjob.  So, at least some of the players knew...and you don't think the veteran leaders would've been in the know?  I don't buy it for a second.  

No, I meant the allegations that there was a meeting and that Quenneville was angry and said it would affect team chemistry. I never doubted the allegations about Aldrich (he got "caught" later and was convicted).

Now that Kyle Beach has come out as John Doe 1 (listening to his interview right now) I take back everything about what the players may not have known. There were homophobic slurs said to *him* by players on the ice. Clearly it was because they knew that Aldrich had his eye on him, which means they all knew about Aldrich. They all knew!

The other question that comes to mind is why did the player re-sign with the same team four years later?

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability.  He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

The allegations may be unproven, but the sweeping it under the rug is something they all chose to do at the time, including Quenville.  It doesn't even matter if the allegations would prove false, choosing to do nothing is unforgiveable and should be prosecutable let alone fireable.

For the players, I mean, you have to read the reams of documentation released about this to really get a feel for it, but there was an incident three or four years later where a Blackhawks player called the victim a "f*****t" on the ice and asked him if he enjoyed the blowjob.  So, at least some of the players knew...and you don't think the veteran leaders would've been in the know?  I don't buy it for a second.  

No, I meant the allegations that there was a meeting and that Quenneville was angry and said it would affect team chemistry.  I never doubted the allegations about Aldrich (he got "caught" later and was convicted).

Now that Kyle Beach has come out as John Doe 1 (listening to his interview right now) I take back everything about what the players may not have known.  There were homophobic slurs said to *him* by players on the ice.  Clearly it was because they knew that Aldrich had his eye on him, which means they all knew about Aldrich.  They all knew!

I don’t think that means every single player would have known. Either way, it’s still on management and employer, not the players

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability.  He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

The allegations may be unproven, but the sweeping it under the rug is something they all chose to do at the time, including Quenville.  It doesn't even matter if the allegations would prove false, choosing to do nothing is unforgiveable and should be prosecutable let alone fireable.

For the players, I mean, you have to read the reams of documentation released about this to really get a feel for it, but there was an incident three or four years later where a Blackhawks player called the victim a "f*****t" on the ice and asked him if he enjoyed the blowjob.  So, at least some of the players knew...and you don't think the veteran leaders would've been in the know?  I don't buy it for a second.  

It’s not their job to report something like that. The coach should have been fired right away. What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself. This isn’t a minor.

He was 20, still very young, and he was on the best team in the league. And no-one on the team came to his aid.

He was drafted 11th overall and is now playing in a league I've never heard of. Hope he has a good lawyer who will average the professional earnings for 11th overall draft picks and then estimate his lost earnings based on the growing league minimum. That should be the *damages* of what he sues for, and then push for treble damages for the emotional trauma suffered.

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability.  He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

The allegations may be unproven, but the sweeping it under the rug is something they all chose to do at the time, including Quenville.  It doesn't even matter if the allegations would prove false, choosing to do nothing is unforgiveable and should be prosecutable let alone fireable.

For the players, I mean, you have to read the reams of documentation released about this to really get a feel for it, but there was an incident three or four years later where a Blackhawks player called the victim a "f*****t" on the ice and asked him if he enjoyed the blowjob.  So, at least some of the players knew...and you don't think the veteran leaders would've been in the know?  I don't buy it for a second.  

It’s not their job to report something like that. The coach should have been fired right away. What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself. This isn’t a minor.

He was 20, still very young, and he was on the best team in the league.  And no-one on the team came to his aid.  

He was drafted 11th overall and is now playing in a league I've never heard of.  Hope he has a good lawyer who will average the professional earnings for 11th overall draft picks and then estimate his lost earnings based on the growing league minimum.  That should be the *damages* of what he sues for, and then push for treble damages for the emotional trauma suffered.

What lost earnings? I don’t understand your comment.

Either way he re-signed with the same team four years later…from a legal perspective would that not be a bit odd if we was going to try to claim lost earnings?

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability.  He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

The allegations may be unproven, but the sweeping it under the rug is something they all chose to do at the time, including Quenville.  It doesn't even matter if the allegations would prove false, choosing to do nothing is unforgiveable and should be prosecutable let alone fireable.

For the players, I mean, you have to read the reams of documentation released about this to really get a feel for it, but there was an incident three or four years later where a Blackhawks player called the victim a "f*****t" on the ice and asked him if he enjoyed the blowjob.  So, at least some of the players knew...and you don't think the veteran leaders would've been in the know?  I don't buy it for a second.  

It’s not their job to report something like that. The coach should have been fired right away. What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself. This isn’t a minor.

He was 20, still very young, and he was on the best team in the league.  And no-one on the team came to his aid.  

He was drafted 11th overall and is now playing in a league I've never heard of.  Hope he has a good lawyer who will average the professional earnings for 11th overall draft picks and then estimate his lost earnings based on the growing league minimum.  That should be the *damages* of what he sues for, and then push for treble damages for the emotional trauma suffered.

What lost earnings? I don’t understand your comment.

Either way he re-signed with the same team four years later…from a legal perspective would that not be a bit odd if we was going to try to claim lost earnings?

Not at all. He never played a game in the NHL and it can easily be argued that the actions of Aldrich -- and inaction by team management -- were directly responsible for scuttling his NHL career. So average out how many NHL games an 11th overall gets, as well as the average salary (in units of "league minimum") and then extrapolate from that. I believe he is only seeking $150K -- that's a joke!

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability.  He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

The allegations may be unproven, but the sweeping it under the rug is something they all chose to do at the time, including Quenville.  It doesn't even matter if the allegations would prove false, choosing to do nothing is unforgiveable and should be prosecutable let alone fireable.

For the players, I mean, you have to read the reams of documentation released about this to really get a feel for it, but there was an incident three or four years later where a Blackhawks player called the victim a "f*****t" on the ice and asked him if he enjoyed the blowjob.  So, at least some of the players knew...and you don't think the veteran leaders would've been in the know?  I don't buy it for a second.  

It’s not their job to report something like that. The coach should have been fired right away. What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself. This isn’t a minor.

He was 20, still very young, and he was on the best team in the league.  And no-one on the team came to his aid.  

He was drafted 11th overall and is now playing in a league I've never heard of.  Hope he has a good lawyer who will average the professional earnings for 11th overall draft picks and then estimate his lost earnings based on the growing league minimum.  That should be the *damages* of what he sues for, and then push for treble damages for the emotional trauma suffered.

What lost earnings? I don’t understand your comment.

Either way he re-signed with the same team four years later…from a legal perspective would that not be a bit odd if we was going to try to claim lost earnings?

Not at all.  He never played a game in the NHL and it can easily be argued that the actions of Aldrich -- and inaction by team management -- were directly responsible for scuttling his NHL career.  So average out how many NHL games an 11th overall gets, as well as the average salary (in units of "league minimum") and then extrapolate from that.  I believe he is only seeking $150K -- that's a joke!

You don’t think it’s odd that re signed with them? I’m not defending the hawks at all, I just find that very odd.

Ev, you're flipping this on the victim.  He was 20 years old at the time.  Go watch the interview with Westhead and Kyle Beach and then take your extreme Dung somewhere else.

tim1_2 wrote:Ev, you're flipping this on the victim.  He was 20 years old at the time.  Go watch the interview with Westhead and Kyle Beach and then take your extreme Dung somewhere else.

That’s not fair. What’s extreme? I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange? Im genuinely curious why he did this.

As I said, the team messed up and should have investigated and then fired the coach.

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Ev, you're flipping this on the victim.  He was 20 years old at the time.  Go watch the interview with Westhead and Kyle Beach and then take your extreme Dung somewhere else.

That’s not fair. What’s extreme? I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange? Im genuinely curious why he did this.

As I said, the team messed up and should have investigated and then fired the coach.

In addition to saying the team "messed up", what you said was "What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself", "why did the player re-sign with the same team four years later?", "Either way, it’s still on management and employer, not the players" (the players ridiculed him for it, and knew), "Either way he re-signed with the same team four years later", "You don’t think it’s odd that re signed with them?", " I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange?". Your focus is apparently more on Beach's actions than the entire organization full of scum, including the other players. Duncan Keith, for example, declined to be interviewed as part of the investigation, as did a lot of others.

The thing about signing with them in 2013/14 is strange, because I think he signed and then was loaned to a team in Sweden. Pretty irrelevant though...doesn't change what happened 3 years before that.

http://thethirdmanin.com/2013/10/08/kyle-beach-interview-his-absurd-claim-intentions-playing-in-sweden-and-more/

tim1_2 wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Ev, you're flipping this on the victim.  He was 20 years old at the time.  Go watch the interview with Westhead and Kyle Beach and then take your extreme Dung somewhere else.

That’s not fair. What’s extreme? I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange? Im genuinely curious why he did this.

As I said, the team messed up and should have investigated and then fired the coach.

In addition to saying the team "messed up", what you said was "What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself", "why did the player re-sign with the same team four years later?", "Either way, it’s still on management and employer, not the players" (the players ridiculed him for it, and knew), "Either way he re-signed with the same team four years later", "You don’t think it’s odd that re signed with them?", " I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange?".  Your focus is apparently more on Beach's actions than the entire organization full of scum, including the other players.  Duncan Keith, for example, declined to be interviewed as part of the investigation, as did a lot of others.  

The thing about signing with them in 2013/14 is strange, because I think he signed and then was loaned to a team in Sweden. Pretty irrelevant though...doesn't change what happened 3 years before that.  

http://thethirdmanin.com/2013/10/08/kyle-beach-interview-his-absurd-claim-intentions-playing-in-sweden-and-more/

It is irrelevant, it was just a question I had. Thanks for the info.