General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

tim1_2 wrote:Ev, you're flipping this on the victim.  He was 20 years old at the time.  Go watch the interview with Westhead and Kyle Beach and then take your extreme Dung somewhere else.

That’s not fair. What’s extreme? I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange? Im genuinely curious why he did this.

As I said, the team messed up and should have investigated and then fired the coach.

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Ev, you're flipping this on the victim.  He was 20 years old at the time.  Go watch the interview with Westhead and Kyle Beach and then take your extreme Dung somewhere else.

That’s not fair. What’s extreme? I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange? Im genuinely curious why he did this.

As I said, the team messed up and should have investigated and then fired the coach.

In addition to saying the team "messed up", what you said was "What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself", "why did the player re-sign with the same team four years later?", "Either way, it’s still on management and employer, not the players" (the players ridiculed him for it, and knew), "Either way he re-signed with the same team four years later", "You don’t think it’s odd that re signed with them?", " I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange?". Your focus is apparently more on Beach's actions than the entire organization full of scum, including the other players. Duncan Keith, for example, declined to be interviewed as part of the investigation, as did a lot of others.

The thing about signing with them in 2013/14 is strange, because I think he signed and then was loaned to a team in Sweden. Pretty irrelevant though...doesn't change what happened 3 years before that.

http://thethirdmanin.com/2013/10/08/kyle-beach-interview-his-absurd-claim-intentions-playing-in-sweden-and-more/

tim1_2 wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Ev, you're flipping this on the victim.  He was 20 years old at the time.  Go watch the interview with Westhead and Kyle Beach and then take your extreme Dung somewhere else.

That’s not fair. What’s extreme? I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange? Im genuinely curious why he did this.

As I said, the team messed up and should have investigated and then fired the coach.

In addition to saying the team "messed up", what you said was "What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself", "why did the player re-sign with the same team four years later?", "Either way, it’s still on management and employer, not the players" (the players ridiculed him for it, and knew), "Either way he re-signed with the same team four years later", "You don’t think it’s odd that re signed with them?", " I am wondering why he signed with the team that did this to him four years later. Isn’t that strange?".  Your focus is apparently more on Beach's actions than the entire organization full of scum, including the other players.  Duncan Keith, for example, declined to be interviewed as part of the investigation, as did a lot of others.  

The thing about signing with them in 2013/14 is strange, because I think he signed and then was loaned to a team in Sweden. Pretty irrelevant though...doesn't change what happened 3 years before that.  

http://thethirdmanin.com/2013/10/08/kyle-beach-interview-his-absurd-claim-intentions-playing-in-sweden-and-more/

It is irrelevant, it was just a question I had. Thanks for the info.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Toews and Kane and other players must've known what was going on or at least heard the rumours as well.  It's in the report that Quenville said he didn't want to upset team chemistry so they couldn't deal with it during the playoffs.  And then he later lied about now knowing about the allegations.  

The whole thing is disgusting, and ideally every party involved should be held accountable.  I don't know Quenville in particular can be allowed to remain a coach when this was his response to a player being sexually abused.

The only thing is it doesn't sound like he knew of any assault taking place. He was made aware of an incident but not what it actually was.

As for Toews and Kane etc, the player was not an actual Blackhawks player who played in games, so they probably never interacted with him.

In an odd way, Quenneville's behaviour gives the players plausible deniability.  He didn't want to upset the chemistry sounds like the players didn't *already* know (or at least not all); certainly the core players would have little interaction with the Black Aces. That said, what Aldrich did was not a one-off, he'd been around for a while and this certainly happened before, so who knows what any of the players knew.

As for Q himself, I am almost 100% sure he was lying but, at this point in time, these are unproven allegations, which is why Bettman (a lawyer) said what he said.

The allegations may be unproven, but the sweeping it under the rug is something they all chose to do at the time, including Quenville.  It doesn't even matter if the allegations would prove false, choosing to do nothing is unforgiveable and should be prosecutable let alone fireable.

For the players, I mean, you have to read the reams of documentation released about this to really get a feel for it, but there was an incident three or four years later where a Blackhawks player called the victim a "f*****t" on the ice and asked him if he enjoyed the blowjob.  So, at least some of the players knew...and you don't think the veteran leaders would've been in the know?  I don't buy it for a second.  

It’s not their job to report something like that. The coach should have been fired right away. What I don’t understand is why the player didn’t go to the police himself. This isn’t a minor.

He was 20, still very young, and he was on the best team in the league.  And no-one on the team came to his aid.  

He was drafted 11th overall and is now playing in a league I've never heard of.  Hope he has a good lawyer who will average the professional earnings for 11th overall draft picks and then estimate his lost earnings based on the growing league minimum.  That should be the *damages* of what he sues for, and then push for treble damages for the emotional trauma suffered.

What lost earnings? I don’t understand your comment.

Either way he re-signed with the same team four years later…from a legal perspective would that not be a bit odd if we was going to try to claim lost earnings?

Not at all.  He never played a game in the NHL and it can easily be argued that the actions of Aldrich -- and inaction by team management -- were directly responsible for scuttling his NHL career.  So average out how many NHL games an 11th overall gets, as well as the average salary (in units of "league minimum") and then extrapolate from that.  I believe he is only seeking $150K -- that's a joke!

You don’t think it’s odd that re signed with them? I’m not defending the hawks at all, I just find that very odd.

Wasn't he an RFA who had zeo NHL games? Not too many takers. Also, Aldrich was gone by then.

Yes, I believe 2010 was the first year of Beach's entry level contract with the Blackhawks. He was then buried in the minors for the remainder of his contract, signed a league minimum contract with them in 2013/14, and then was leant to a team overseas never to return.

Q is out as Panthers coach. Kevin Weeks tweeted it Torts may be the replacement.

wprager wrote:Q is out as Panthers coach. Kevin Weeks tweeted it Torts may be the replacement.

Cheveldayoff meeting moved up to Friday. I wonder if the time is ticking on his job too.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:Q is out as Panthers coach. Kevin Weeks tweeted it Torts may be the replacement.

Cheveldayoff meeting moved up to Friday. I wonder if the time is ticking on his job too.

Of course it is. Apparently Chevy actually has the support of the Jets ownership, which seems strange given the circumstances. But Chevy, while he might've been the most "junior" person in that meeting in 2010, needs to suffer the same fate as the rest of them...how could he not? The fact that he wasn't immediately placed on leave (like Q should've been), is mind-numbingly dumb.

Better late than never. But why late? I think it would have been a no-brainer if not for Q denying the allegation (I think in his eyes he was just stating the obvious -- that this would affect team chemistry -- and not necessarily recommending the inaction; that's the only thing I could think of).

No discipline for Cheveldayoff.

"While on some level, it would be easiest to paint everyone with any association to this terrible matter with the same broad brush, I believe that fundamental fairness requires a more in-depth analysis of the role of each person," said Bettman in a media release.

"Kevin Cheveldayoff was not a member of [Chicago's] senior leadership team in 2010, and I cannot, therefore, assign to him responsibility for the club's actions, or inactions. He provided a full account of his degree of involvement in the matter, which was limited exclusively to his attendance at a single meeting, and I found him to be extremely forthcoming and credible in our discussion."

Hobiesens wrote:No discipline for Cheveldayoff.

"While on some level, it would be easiest to paint everyone with any association to this terrible matter with the same broad brush, I believe that fundamental fairness requires a more in-depth analysis of the role of each person," said Bettman in a media release.

"Kevin Cheveldayoff was not a member of [Chicago's] senior leadership team in 2010, and I cannot, therefore, assign to him responsibility for the club's actions, or inactions. He provided a full account of his degree of involvement in the matter, which was limited exclusively to his attendance at a single meeting, and I found him to be extremely forthcoming and credible in our discussion."

Absolutely disgusting. Cheveldayoff had also lied about when he learned of the incident, effectively saying he didn't know about it until Alrdich left the Blackhawks, which was proven to be false.

Cheveldayoff released a statement through the Jets saying that we can all use Kyle Beach's courage to make hockey a safer place for everyone. The next paragraph is thanking the NHL and Gary Bettman for the meeting. It's all quite gross.

I don't think this is over. Jets may still do something.

Also, why don't I hear anyone (other than random people on twitter) calling for Fehr's head on a plate? He's the head of the NHLPA -- the *players'* union. One of their own was being abused by the team's coaching staff and the team didn't do anything about it. This is is exactly the kind of thing that the NHLPA should be driving at as hard as they can.

wprager wrote:I don't think this is over.  Jets may still do something.

Also, why don't I hear anyone (other than random people on twitter) calling for Fehr's head on a plate?  He's the head of the NHLPA -- the *players'* union.  One of their own was being abused by the team's coaching staff and the team didn't do anything about it.  This is is exactly the kind of thing that the NHLPA should be driving at as hard as they can.  

NHLPA has a conference call with player reps from every team tomorrow for Fehr to explain himself apparently. Robin Lehner is the Vegas rep going on the call. Should be interesting No way should he be allowed to keep his job.

The Jets apparently supported Cheveldayoff before his meeting with Buttman. And then them releasing his atrocious, empty, hollow, insulting statement afterwards just shows that they have no intention of disciplining him let alone firing him.

How are Leafs fans happy with that Reilly extension? He will have a 7.5M cap hit when he's 35 years old! He's virtually untradeable

Looks like Sutter is getting the Flames to adhere to a system that's working for them. Now if Monohan and Gaudreau could step up on the goal tally.

If there's truth to the Eichel/Calgary rumors one or both could be on the move anyway!

Though it does sound like Vegas is leading the way

We should have traded for DeAngelo

Things are no bueno in Montreal and I love it