Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:And now Zib has 2+ concussions and doesn't drive the net. Can't use his size. Developed the wrong way I 100% agree

How do you agree with that? What does having concussions and not using size have to do with his development?

Not sure if you remember but the Sens actually sent him down to the AHL and people freaked out (the "Free Mika" idiots were very annoying). They took it slow with him. Fans can't have it both ways.

There's always a fear in the Sens fan base. If European players don't come over it's because the Sens can't sign them. If NCAA players are ready to transition to the NHL the Sens can't sign them. Panic sets in. Maybe there's some truth to all of this but the fan base as a whole overreacts about everything. Everyone here also underestimates how good of a city Ottawa is to live and how good a country Canada is. Sure, we don't have TGI Friday's and things are more expensive, but the quality of life is way better here and these guys are millionaires. How much money do these athletes really need?  

Plain and simple the Sens gave up on Zibanejad. I remember when the trade happened. I also remember when we all thought we were drafting Couturtier and ended up with Zib. Everyone was expecting a change but I think were still surprised when the Zib trade happened. He was 23 years old when they traded him. After back-to-back 20+ goal seasons as a 21 and 22 year old, and 16 as a 20 year old. He put up points. When he was sent down he only played 6 games with Bingo. Over his career he only played 29 games in the AHL scoring 18 points. The knock against him was never his talent. It was his level of compete and lack of using his size. Had he spent a full season or two in the AHL as a 19 & 20 year old he would have grew into his frame more and developed a better two-way game. He had an amazing one-timer but aside from that scored very few goals in and around the crease. His comparison at the draft was to Bobby Holik who was a beast in front of the net. Zib is a coaster with a few good strides to get him moving. Never a power skater like Duchene.

I like the Red Wings model. They leave their players in the minors until close to their mid 20s. Lots of time to develop. They come out with one-way contracts at a reasonable rate. The Sens organization needs to let their players develop in the minors. They're skipping major steps in their players' development. Lazar, traded at 22 years old, only played 13 games in Bingo. He should have never made the team out of camp. The Sens likely ruined this kid's career. His last chance to stick in the NHL is this season. Otherwise, he's probably done at 24 years old. The Sens need to learn from their mistakes or risk making them over and over again.

There's a difference between developing and over-developing. A guy like Mika didn't need to be in the AHL very long. He's a good player who was developed well IMO. I wouldn't want him at his current contract but I don't think he was developed poorly at all.

Lazar is who he is and no development in the AHL would have changed that...there's nothing wrong with playing a guy in the bottom six in the NHL after showing his worth in junior. Tons of players start out in bottom roles.

The Red Wings always left their players in the minors because they never had top prospects and they had a full NHL roster. They just drafted Zadina who will see no AHL time. The Red Wings are not a good model anymore, they are one of the worst organizations in hockey at the moment.

Yeah i agree that the wings model is outdated. More and more the game is being turned over to youth and there’s not the same level of physicality that there used to be.

I’ve let m opinion known. I think the AHL is where they should start him. Play him 20-30 games , if he struggles then you have the opportunity to send him to the minors. But I think he could do pretty well in the AHL. He’s good for the Phisical game, he just needs to play against a weaker talent pool so he has a chance to up his offencive game.

Things change. The Leafs were once one of the worst organization in hockey and now have the blueprint to be one of the best for the next 5+ years. Everything goes in cycles. Chicago is in a downward spiral after being a dynasty. Boston is currently on the up.

On the topic of Boston, Brad Marchand played 1.5 full seasons in the AHL. First season he put up 59 points in 79 games (0.75 ppg). Next season he played 34 games in the A putting up 32 points in 34 games (0.94 ppg). Played 20 games in the NHL only scoring 1 assist. To me, that's a development year so two full years of development prior to full-time NHL minutes. Only 1 season after that did he fail to register 20+ goals - 2012/13 lockout year where he put up 18 goals in 45 games.

Patrice Bergeron played in the NHL as a rookie. 39 points in 71 games. Played in the AHL during the 2004 lockout. 61 points in 68 games. Followed that up with a 31 goal season in the NHL. Full year in the AHL. Different circumstance but was forced to play in the AHL.

Jason Spezza. Again, bit of a different story. 33 games in the NHL as a rookie scores 21 points. Splits time in the A where he scores 54 points in 43 games in Bingo. Next season in the NHL put up 55 points in 78 games in the NHL (a career low minus his rookie season). Played in the AHL for the lockout and put up 117 points in 80 games. Followed that up with 90 points in the NHL the following season.

I get that there are circumstances where players like Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, McDavid, Duchene can bypass the AHL. Zib, Tkachuk, and certainly Lazar should never be put in a position where that happens. There is really no argument to support it. You should be one of the best players in your respective league before going to the next league. Tkachuk should be sent straight to the minors and should spend a season minimum down there without a call up. Given his lacklustre offensive numbers it is difficult to gauge whether or not he should be in Belleville or London. I personally think London is the better fit where he can play with people his own age and focus solely on his offensive game on a talented team. Belleville could be a dung show next year full of call-ups in a "last chance to prove it" league where he will probably run a little wild physically and focus on being a tough guy versus scoring goals.

And as for Zadina, he should have been a top three pick. He has the skill to play in the NHL. His size may be an issue. I guess we will wait and see what the Wings do with him

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:And as for Zadina, he should have been a top three pick. He has the skill to play in the NHL. His size may be an issue. I guess we will wait and see what the Wings do with him

9 games max in my opinion. 4 or 5 points before they slide his contract.

That's what I was thinking too.

I forgot to mention above that Matthew Tkachuk played for the Knights. The family has a history with Dale Hunter. The OHL continues to make the most sense to me meaning he'll probably be an Ottawa Senator all of next year.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:That's what I was thinking too.

I forgot to mention above that Matthew Tkachuk played for the Knights. The family has a history with Dale Hunter. The OHL continues to make the most sense to me meaning he'll probably be an Ottawa Senator all of next year.

The accuracy of this hurts.

I’ve been very adamant about Tkachuk not being ready for the NHL.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Things change. The Leafs were once one of the worst organization in hockey and now have the blueprint to be one of the best for the next 5+ years. Everything goes in cycles. Chicago is in a downward spiral after being a dynasty. Boston is currently on the up.

On the topic of Boston, Brad Marchand played 1.5 full seasons in the AHL. First season he put up 59 points in 79 games (0.75 ppg). Next season he played 34 games in the A putting up 32 points in 34 games (0.94 ppg). Played 20 games in the NHL only scoring 1 assist. To me, that's a development year so two full years of development prior to full-time NHL minutes. Only 1 season after that did he fail to register 20+ goals - 2012/13 lockout year where he put up 18 goals in 45 games.

Patrice Bergeron played in the NHL as a rookie. 39 points in 71 games. Played in the AHL during the 2004 lockout. 61 points in 68 games. Followed that up with a 31 goal season in the NHL. Full year in the AHL. Different circumstance but was forced to play in the AHL.

Jason Spezza. Again, bit of a different story. 33 games in the NHL as a rookie scores 21 points. Splits time in the A where he scores 54 points in 43 games in Bingo. Next season in the NHL put up 55 points in 78 games in the NHL (a career low minus his rookie season). Played in the AHL for the lockout and put up 117 points in 80 games. Followed that up with 90 points in the NHL the following season.

I get that there are circumstances where players like Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, McDavid, Duchene can bypass the AHL. Zib, Tkachuk, and certainly Lazar should never be put in a position where that happens. There is really no argument to support it. You should be one of the best players in your respective league before going to the next league. Tkachuk should be sent straight to the minors and should spend a season minimum down there without a call up. Given his lacklustre offensive numbers it is difficult to gauge whether or not he should be in Belleville or London. I personally think London is the better fit where he can play with people his own age and focus solely on his offensive game on a talented team. Belleville could be a dung show next year full of call-ups in a "last chance to prove it" league where he will probably run a little wild physically and focus on being a tough guy versus scoring goals.

Hold on there. The leafs is still a toss up. Their backend still looks highly questionable and if you call drafting a legacy superstar 1st overall and a bunch of top picks a strategy that’s not much of one. What leaves to be seen is if the analytical side of things works out for dubas. They’ve made a number of trades for guys that analytics were telling them to grab and nothing much has come of it. I’d hold off on appointing the leafs model as successful

I’ll be fine with it if they send him to the OHL. The only option that scares me is straight to the NHL.

There are two registered users on right now, two bots and 10 *guests*: welcome. And to the bots: 001001010110001111010011110001

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Completely off topic.

Heard the story of Duchene in Orillia this past weekend. Saw a fan in a sens hat, parked his car in the middle of a drivethru, got out of his car, and thanked the fans for supporting the team. Guy is a class act.

Always heard about Turris with the condors, Bobby Ryan has a box at the game for kids, etc. I've seen Karlsson in public turning down kids asking him for an autograph. Don't hear much about Karlsson's community service work or being a community ambassador. Even Wideman played shinny with some Barrhaven kids last spring.  

If/when Karlsson gets traded I think I'd like to see Duchene wear the 'C'. Stone a close second. These two guys are what this franchise need.

The rest of the story is that the guy (@SensHockey) asked about Duchene's order -- wanted to pay for him -- but he was getting 6 breakfast sandwiches and 6 coffees and that was a little out of his comfort zone. This was 11:30 at night. Duchene must have had the munchies. He did come from Colorado.

This story reminds me of Wideman playing shinny at Dover Court. Need more stories like this.

Westboro, not Barrhaven,

I said from the start that Karlsson should not get the 'C' right away. Would have given it to Phillips, if even for just one season.

We don't know everything that Karlsson does. We don't know everything that he's going through. I think it's fair to say he doesn't go out of his way like Turris does (OT playoff game and he still showed up at the Condors' year-end dinner party) but we don't know half of what he does. It also depends a ton on the spouse. Julie Turris strikes me like someone who really enjoys this side of hockey life. Same with Caitlin (Neil) and Erin (Phillips). Melinda certainly enjoys the limelight. I'm not being judgmental, well, maybe a little.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with giving a player a taste of what it's like in the bigs. Gives him a nice little financial bonus (not that Tkachuk needs it) and (hopefully) makes him hungry to get back there. And if, during that handful of games, he shows an unexpected level of competence then what's wrong with keeping him up here? What they did with Lazar was just wrong. But if he was playing 15 minutes a night with decent linemates and putting up over 0.5 ppg then it would not have been the wrong decision.

wprager wrote:I said from the start that Karlsson should not get the 'C' right away.  Would have given it to Phillips, if even for just one season.

We don't know everything that Karlsson does.  We don't know everything that he's going through.  I think it's fair to say he doesn't go out of his way like Turris does (OT playoff game and he still showed up at the Condors' year-end dinner party) but we don't know half of what he does.  It also depends a ton on the spouse.  Julie Turris strikes me like someone who really enjoys this side of hockey life.  Same with Caitlin (Neil) and Erin (Phillips).  Melinda certainly enjoys the limelight.  I'm not being judgmental, well, maybe a little.  

I kind of agree with this. Although I’m not anywhere near the kalrssons. She seems a bit like the mall girls from high school. And although I don’t expect Kalrsson to get involved with everything off the ice you do want him to be the public face of the franchise in Ottawa. I don’t think anyone doubted his captain skills in our last playoff run. Everyone was saying he even went beyond what Alfie ever did on the ice. That’s his good side of his captaincy. He’s still young, the public side would likely come.

Flo The Action wrote:I’ll be fine with it if they send him to the OHL. The only option that scares me is straight to the NHL.

Any pro option scares me. He’s not ready. Anyone that says otherwise is just trolling. Let him try and have one dominate season in his lifetime and let him play more than the roughly 40 games he’s used to. This is getting out of control. I don’t mind the pick, but come on, he’s needs minutes, experience, reps. Let him try and score more than 8 goals and doninate his peers for a season. It’s such an easy decision.

I can’t wait for Ottawa to make the wrong one.

It’s also a little weird that kalrsson won’t be talking to the media until training camp.

It’s almost like he’s playing his cards in a way that he expects to be traded. It doesn’t bode well for anyone hoping the relationship between the club and kalrsson heals at all.

Lagoon wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I’ll be fine with it if they send him to the OHL. The only option that scares me is straight to the NHL.

Any pro option scares me. He’s not ready. Anyone that says otherwise is just trolling. Let him try and have one dominate season in his lifetime and let him play more than the roughly 40 games he’s used to. This is getting out of control. I don’t mind the pick, but come on, he’s needs minutes, experience, reps. Let him try and score more than 8 goals and doninate his peers for a season. It’s such an easy decision.

I can’t wait for Ottawa to make the wrong one.

Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it the wrong decision or trolling. Time will tell if he’s pro ready and I certainly think he is due to the type of player and person he is . Saying he’s not ready is false since we don’t know. The sens and their scouts and staff have more information in their pinky fingers than we do in our brains. Legit hockey people said he was one of the most pro ready players in the draft .