Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

Ev wrote:

Hoff-Machine wrote:The argument of 'this was happening even before trump' is the most idiotic argument I keep hearing...racism is everywhere, even in Canada.  Yes you can't compare the levels, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  You now have a world leader, endorsed by the KKK, and all the racist/bigot/xenophobic Americans are rejoicing because they feel it's acceptable to attack the minorities.  This is already happening and increasing around America.  

Ask me, I live here now and even though I"m in California (thank god), there's still a black cloud everyone feels over here generally and anticipating more hate crimes.  Forget Trump's policies and all that stuff, Flo's absolutely correct when he says that America's true underbelly is shown.  Take a look at county votes for republican vs democrats and you will see even from Obama's elections it was mostly all red across the country.  Big metropolitan areas with educated ppl think logically, small towns and counties think like bigots, and they're starting to infiltrate and teach kids it's ok to tell any colored person to go back to his country (i am a person of color).

So Ev, how about you get off YOUR high horse and take your own advise by shutting up?

I'm not on a high horse. At all. That's the big difference. I'm asking people to give somebody a chance and stop being salty that their preferred candidate lost. im asking people tos top overreacting and stop oversensationalizjng everything about trump and his party. I know that at the end of four years, nothing greatly positive or negative will have happened. For the common person, it makes zero difference who is in charge of the government. It was the same here for people who complained about Harper.

Immigrants also doesn't mean people of colour. It can be anybody. I think it's very fair to not want ant illegal immigrants in your country and I think it's fair to at least monitor people coming to your country from terrorist controllled areas.

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Anyway....it's too much idiocy to even bother with, let's see how he does, what choice do we have?

Take a stand. That's the choice we have. Make yourself heard. And let our prime minister know we want him to bring these problems up with every chance he will have to deal with this idiot.

I remember a time when under the last liberal leadership where we couldn't meet with China without bringing up their shady human rights record.

Trudeau doesn't have time to even meet with trump. He'll be too busy taking selfie and walking in pride parades

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:You act like these things never happened before ever in America. News flash, this would happen under any president. If you think trump condones stuff like that, you're brainwashed by the media and hippies who tweet about crap like that.

You also have poor facts. He doesn't want to get rid of immigrants. It's illegals he wants to get rid of, which is 100% correct. He also wants to build inner cities to make poor people and minority lives better. Wow he's literally hitler. Who gives a duck about the black lives matter group as they were complete challenged from the get go. They don't actually care about improving black lives, they simply hate on other groups. Hmm kinda what people say trump does.  

Your stance of "I'm right, you're wrong and don't get it" is unbelievably ignorant. Get off your high horse, you're a 40 year old Canadian, you're not an expert on American politics. To suggest that everyone who voted for him is a an idiot, uneducated, bigot, etc is completely unfair and insulting.

I didn't care who won, I'm not affected by this in any way. I'm just sick of seeing Canadians and other people on their high horse trying to act like they know everytning about the election and acting like their Dung don't stink. people need to get a grip if they think trump as president will be any different than the last president and the one before that.

And another thing. I'm majoring in international business, I'm almost done actually. What do you think half my classes are on? International economics. What do you think we mostly focus on? Of course I have an understanding of American economics! diddles sake.

Lol typical person who thinks they know everything because they studied it in school. Guess what, I completed a business degree myself. I'm not claiming to be an expert.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:You act like these things never happened before ever in America. News flash, this would happen under any president. If you think trump condones stuff like that, you're brainwashed by the media and hippies who tweet about crap like that.

You also have poor facts. He doesn't want to get rid of immigrants. It's illegals he wants to get rid of, which is 100% correct. He also wants to build inner cities to make poor people and minority lives better. Wow he's literally hitler. Who gives a duck about the black lives matter group as they were complete challenged from the get go. They don't actually care about improving black lives, they simply hate on other groups. Hmm kinda what people say trump does.  

Your stance of "I'm right, you're wrong and don't get it" is unbelievably ignorant. Get off your high horse, you're a 40 year old Canadian, you're not an expert on American politics. To suggest that everyone who voted for him is a an idiot, uneducated, bigot, etc is completely unfair and insulting.

I didn't care who won, I'm not affected by this in any way. I'm just sick of seeing Canadians and other people on their high horse trying to act like they know everytning about the election and acting like their Dung don't stink. people need to get a grip if they think trump as president will be any different than the last president and the one before that.

And another thing. I'm majoring in international business, I'm almost done actually. What do you think half my classes are on? International economics. What do you think we mostly focus on? Of course I have an understanding of American economics! diddles sake.

Lol typical person who thinks they know everything because they studied it in school. Guess what, I completed a business degree myself. I'm not claiming to be an expert.

big difference. my degree had 4 classes in poli-sci touching on international politics. i had one religion class touching on globalization and its impact on religion, i had 5 classes that were economics classes. i know what a typical business degree looks like and they don't shape tthem the way i shaped mine. also, the regular biz degree 90 credits. mine 120. so yeah. i did learn a lot more than the average degree. and btw, i have 20 years before going back to school where i have devoted a large portion of my life to social justice and environmental issues and the policies that drive it. so excuse me if i think i have a good idea of what i'm talking about.  

Democrats f'd up with Hillary Clinton as their rep. What concerns me also is his views on guns and climate change.

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:You act like these things never happened before ever in America. News flash, this would happen under any president. If you think trump condones stuff like that, you're brainwashed by the media and hippies who tweet about crap like that.

You also have poor facts. He doesn't want to get rid of immigrants. It's illegals he wants to get rid of, which is 100% correct. He also wants to build inner cities to make poor people and minority lives better. Wow he's literally hitler. Who gives a duck about the black lives matter group as they were complete challenged from the get go. They don't actually care about improving black lives, they simply hate on other groups. Hmm kinda what people say trump does.  

Your stance of "I'm right, you're wrong and don't get it" is unbelievably ignorant. Get off your high horse, you're a 40 year old Canadian, you're not an expert on American politics. To suggest that everyone who voted for him is a an idiot, uneducated, bigot, etc is completely unfair and insulting.

I didn't care who won, I'm not affected by this in any way. I'm just sick of seeing Canadians and other people on their high horse trying to act like they know everytning about the election and acting like their Dung don't stink. people need to get a grip if they think trump as president will be any different than the last president and the one before that.

And another thing. I'm majoring in international business, I'm almost done actually. What do you think half my classes are on? International economics. What do you think we mostly focus on? Of course I have an understanding of American economics! diddles sake.

Lol typical person who thinks they know everything because they studied it in school. Guess what, I completed a business degree myself. I'm not claiming to be an expert.

big difference. my degree had 4 classes in poli-sci touching on international politics. i had one religion class touching on globalization and its impact on religion, i had 5 classes that were economics classes. i know what a typical business degree looks like and they don't shape tthem the way i shaped mine. also, the regular biz degree 90 credits. mine 120. so yeah. i did learn a lot more than the average degree. and btw, i have 20 years before going back to school where i have devoted a large portion of my life to social justice and environmental issues and the policies that drive it. so excuse me if i think i have a good idea of what i'm talking about.  

Oh so you're an SJW? That explains it.

As somebody who has earned a degree, you really don't learn much of anything tangible from the degree. It's your real world work experience that matters most. Unless you directly worked in politics or economics, etc. I don't think you know a lot more than the average person. So you'd have to explain what twenty years devoted to social justice and environmental issues means.

Ev wrote:Thank you for your explanation, I didn't call you a liberal hippie.

All I ask is to not be what you accuse trump of being. Don't bash his supporters and paint them with the same brush. If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background, but I shouldn't be labelled a bigot or racist because I voted for him

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:Thank you for your explanation, I didn't call you a liberal hippie.

All I ask is to not be what you accuse trump of being. Don't bash his supporters and paint them with the same brush. If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background, but I shouldn't be labelled a bigot or racist because I voted for him

i don't think every trump supporter is racist. although i think race played a big part. i think a lot of people are lucky to have white privilege and therefore could assume throw their middle finger up at Clinton because they would not be directly affected by his bigotry or what it inspires others to do. That is white privilege. if you'd been a black muslim man, you might have felt slightly differently even if you agreed with his business inclinations.
as for you voting because if his business background well, that's a difference in ideology that we can just disagree on. personally i don't think you can run i don't think he'll start a 3rd world war like others have feared but he certainly won't make anything better and will likely respond to conflict with military might over diplomacy (so would clinton though, just maybe more tactically). Just look at his comments on upgrading military spending.
his protectionist agenda doesn't work in today's global economy either. whether he follows through on that i don't know. manufacturing is dying out in america. Bernie had it right to want to invest in education for america to regain an intelectual competitive advantage that could lead to capital intensive production because being a producer of inexpensive goods no longer works from inside the American market. but those economic understanding are way beyond the average American who fights to keep those jobs.  and you may well believe in monetarism and trickle down economics. That's a different view of economy.

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:Thank you for your explanation, I didn't call you a liberal hippie.

All I ask is to not be what you accuse trump of being. Don't bash his supporters and paint them with the same brush. If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background, but I shouldn't be labelled a bigot or racist because I voted for him

i don't think every trump supporter is racist. although i think race played a big part. i think a lot of people are lucky to have white privilege and therefore could assume throw their middle finger up at Clinton because they would not be directly affected by his bigotry or what it inspires others to do. That is white privilege. if you'd been a black muslim man, you might have felt slightly differently even if you agreed with his business inclinations.
as for you voting because if his business background well, that's a difference in ideology that we can just disagree on. personally i don't think you can run i don't think he'll start a 3rd world war like others have feared but he certainly won't make anything better and will likely respond to conflict with military might over diplomacy (so would clinton though, just maybe more tactically). Just look at his comments on upgrading military spending.
his protectionist agenda doesn't work in today's global economy either. whether he follows through on that i don't know. manufacturing is dying out in america. Bernie had it right to want to invest in education for america to regain an intelectual competitive advantage that could lead to capital intensive production because being a producer of inexpensive goods no longer works from inside the American market. but those economic understanding are way beyond the average American who fights to keep those jobs.  and you may well believe in monetarism and trickle down economics. That's a different view of economy.

Again you're talking in absolutes. To say he won't make anything better, today, is speculators and wrong. We don't know what will happen.

Also a lot of minorities you see feel the way they do about trump because of their biases and their peer groups/media. It's groupthink. They see what they see in the media and start to think that way. It's like black lives matter, most of those people aren't even figthing for what's right, they're just doing it cuz they're friends are doing it and they want attention.  

Ev wrote:

spader wrote:

Ev wrote:You act like these things never happened before ever in America. News flash, this would happen under any president. If you think trump condones stuff like that, you're brainwashed by the media and hippies who tweet about crap like that.

You also have poor facts. He doesn't want to get rid of immigrants. It's illegals he wants to get rid of, which is 100% correct. He also wants to build inner cities to make poor people and minority lives better. Wow he's literally hitler. Who gives a duck about the black lives matter group as they were complete challenged from the get go. They don't actually care about improving black lives, they simply hate on other groups. Hmm kinda what people say trump does.  

Your stance of "I'm right, you're wrong and don't get it" is unbelievably ignorant. Get off your high horse, you're a 40 year old Canadian, you're not an expert on American politics. To suggest that everyone who voted for him is a an idiot, uneducated, bigot, etc is completely unfair and insulting.

I didn't care who won, I'm not affected by this in any way. I'm just sick of seeing Canadians and other people on their high horse trying to act like they know everytning about the election and acting like their Dung don't stink. people need to get a grip if they think trump as president will be any different than the last president and the one before that.

FWIW, you're doing much the same thing.

I'm not. I don't have a hard side in this fight. I'm open to anybody liking either side. It's the hypocritical trashing of the trump side and the wide generalizations that I am sick of.

Flo The Action wrote:

spader wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I personally have nothing more to debate. You either see this election of a guy that is accused of rape on a minor, multitude sexual assault charge, the segregation and or deportation of Muslims and immigrants and the repealing of happy rights (not to mention one of the shakiest economical platforms in Presidential history)a terrible move for America or if you support him I think I would think there is no reasons to debate it with you as you have little to no comprehension on social justice, white male privilege and any responsible economic back bone. You can support republicans if you want but this has crossed multiple lines. When even traditional hard line republicans denounce him and the only people proping him up are the idiots, the ignorant privileged and the crazy extremist, you know he's the fucktard. This is going to end badly and not only in the states. If he repeal or even amends nafta even we will suffer
I've said my piece. I don't care to discuss any objections as it will only prove to me you don't get it. Can't think of any political issue that in my mind has created a more divisive gap.

Did you read the article prags posted above? It's worth a read. It helped me understand how this could happen. Give it a shot.

Oh I had read it. I honk there are a lot of disanframchised people. I didn't like Hilary ever but enything was better than this Buffon. If anything Bernie might have provided a better chance to win. That country is split but they just invested in the wrong guy. No experience, failure to understand politics and economics.

spader wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

spader wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I personally have nothing more to debate. You either see this election of a guy that is accused of rape on a minor, multitude sexual assault charge, the segregation and or deportation of Muslims and immigrants and the repealing of happy rights (not to mention one of the shakiest economical platforms in Presidential history)a terrible move for America or if you support him I think I would think there is no reasons to debate it with you as you have little to no comprehension on social justice, white male privilege and any responsible economic back bone. You can support republicans if you want but this has crossed multiple lines. When even traditional hard line republicans denounce him and the only people proping him up are the idiots, the ignorant privileged and the crazy extremist, you know he's the fucktard. This is going to end badly and not only in the states. If he repeal or even amends nafta even we will suffer
I've said my piece. I don't care to discuss any objections as it will only prove to me you don't get it. Can't think of any political issue that in my mind has created a more divisive gap.

Did you read the article prags posted above? It's worth a read. It helped me understand how this could happen. Give it a shot.

Oh I had read it. I honk there are a lot of disanframchised people. I didn't like Hilary ever but enything was better than this Buffon. If anything Bernie might have provided a better chance to win. That country is split but they just invested in the wrong guy. No experience, failure to understand politics and economics.

I think it goes without saying that Bernie provided a better chance to win. 

The thing that really got my attention in Moore's article was the idea of an echo chamber and the idea that people on the left ignored the obvious groundswell that Trump represented. The fact that we (and I include myself) saw this as a slam dunk for the Democrats demonstrates how out of touch we were as the campaign progressed. I mean, the guy won the republican ticket. That alone should have been a wakeup call. Now, there wouldn't have been much that you or I could do about it, but I certainly wouldn't be so stunned if I'd pried my head outta my Donkey and recognized that this wasn't some stunt. It was happening before my eyes and I didn't see it. It's such a clear example of cognitive dissonance that I'm sure there are psych professors champing at the bit to use this example to teach the concept.

Flo The Action wrote:

spader wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

spader wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I personally have nothing more to debate. You either see this election of a guy that is accused of rape on a minor, multitude sexual assault charge, the segregation and or deportation of Muslims and immigrants and the repealing of happy rights (not to mention one of the shakiest economical platforms in Presidential history)a terrible move for America or if you support him I think I would think there is no reasons to debate it with you as you have little to no comprehension on social justice, white male privilege and any responsible economic back bone. You can support republicans if you want but this has crossed multiple lines. When even traditional hard line republicans denounce him and the only people proping him up are the idiots, the ignorant privileged and the crazy extremist, you know he's the fucktard. This is going to end badly and not only in the states. If he repeal or even amends nafta even we will suffer
I've said my piece. I don't care to discuss any objections as it will only prove to me you don't get it. Can't think of any political issue that in my mind has created a more divisive gap.

Did you read the article prags posted above? It's worth a read. It helped me understand how this could happen. Give it a shot.

Oh I had read it. I honk there are a lot of disanframchised people. I didn't like Hilary ever but enything was better than this Buffon. If anything Bernie might have provided a better chance to win. That country is split but they just invested in the wrong guy. No experience, failure to understand politics and economics.

There are no similarities. That would never happen in 2016

I think it goes without saying that Bernie provided a better chance to win. 

The thing that really got my attention in Moore's article was the idea of an echo chamber and the idea that people on the left ignored the obvious groundswell that Trump represented. The fact that we (and I include myself) saw this as a slam dunk for the Democrats demonstrates how out of touch we were as the campaign progressed. I mean, the guy won the republican ticket. That alone should have been a wakeup call. Now, there wouldn't have been much that you or I could do about it, but I certainly wouldn't be so stunned if I'd pried my head outta my Donkey and recognized that this wasn't some stunt. It was happening before my eyes and I didn't see it. It's such a clear example of cognitive dissonance that I'm sure there are psych professors champing at the bit to use this example to teach the concept.

The fact that we were all surprised media and public was incredible. I guess we all thought that the republicans that had denounced trump would be voting for Hilary. I think what really happened is that they didn't vote at all. And the crazies/extremists really came out of the woods in this one. A lot of people that feel like they never have a candidate they like came out and voted. Th voting turn out of 55% says it all. I just wished that all the people that wanted Bernie to vote and instead voted green or did not vote could have been more sensible. I guess everyone thought trump didn't stand a chance. The established democratic regime in Germany also never saw the rise of fascism or didn't take it very seriously when it happened. Until it was too late. I'm not saying this is Germany all over again but the similarities are eerie.

Ev wrote:If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background, 

tim1_2 wrote:

Ev wrote:If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background, 

FYI, it was his dad who created the real estate business and made the money. Donald just inherited it and kept doing the same thing. It's one of this things where once you have millions of dollars it's easy to just pile on. 

Giving Trump credit for making money is pretty dumb. 

Anyway, you guys get back to it.

wprager wrote:He started with what his dad gave him, true, but he went pretty far ahead of that.