Off Season Rumours

spader wrote:I'd personally love to see them trade Mac and get a more bonafide top 6 LW.

Hoffman scored 27 and 29 goals in his first two years, improved his assists from one year to the next, and he wasn't getting the ice time his numbers warranted. So can we agree that Hoffman is a legit top-line winger (provided he plays with a center that is defensively responsible). That means you have CMac playing on the 2nd line (or third, if Smith is still here and still scoring).

Again, where is the upgrade? You are not going to just get a 30-goal winger. There are not many of them and so they cost a lot and get to decide where they want to go. Ottawa is *not* a "destination" for the discerning NHL star. So you get a 2LW who can score 20-25 goals. Smith is a stretch to reach that level, but CMac is not. You are talking about 3-5 goals more. And at what cost?

wprager wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:I hated what I read somewhere, I think it was in the Dung by Warren when he listed the possible targets for Ottawa to go after and said, 'they're nowhere near winning a Cup, so forget about targets like Backes and Stamkos.

Why are we that far away from contending?  We need exactly that, a top line player to go with Ryan/Stone and Turris, while keeping the depth of Hoffman, MacArthur, Pageau etc.  Not to mention we have a solid top 4 D.  We need another vet, but with Anderson being a still solid #1 option who beasts in the playoffs, why are we so far away from other teams?

That's a loser mentality IMO.  Dorion appears not to think like that, we'll see what he does.

we aren't that far off.

What we need is another top LW a top 9 RW and a bottom pairing Dman that is borderline top 4. I mean that's no small order but it's doable.
A lot of sports writers don't know what to write so they go straight for the reactionary article. It gets a reaction and it generates a reaction from fans that demand even more action and when it doesn't happen it gives them fuel.

The truth is we can't get a stamkos because there are better landing spots for him.

I'd go with a top line RW and call it a day.  Down the left you have Hoffman, MacArthur and Smith, with Dzingel waiting in the wings.  Down the right you have Stone, Ryan and...

Stone/Ryan is pretty good.  You bring someone it it's to fill the 3rd line or you move a 4x30 goal scorer and your highest paid forward down to the 3rd line.

If Ryan is not moved he is not getting out of the top 6, so:

You don't bring in Eriksson to play on the third line.  Or anyone in that salary range, for that matter.  Eaves scored 11 goals in 54 games -- he could get 15-20 playing a full season, which is a definite upgrade over Chiasson.  That's the kind of move it will have to be.  But is an extra 5-10 goals from your third line winger enough of an improvement?

I think the biggest improvement will have to be organic.  Better communication of players' roles, better defensive structure to cut down on the shots/goals against, better special teams performance.

spader wrote:I'd personally love to see them trade Mac and get a more bonafide top 6 LW.

This is what I mean, more or less, but instead of moving MacArthur, I want to move Stone down to the third line. I don't care what anyone says, I want three balanced scoring lines. I've wanted that forever. Last year we came close, but we had that abomination Chiasson on the third line. This year, I want him out and I want another big time top 6 RW so we have:

Hoffman - Turris - Ryan
MacArthur - Zibanejad - ???
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paul - Lazar - Dzingel
Neil

And...when there are injuries, you can move Stone up on RW and Dzingel up on LW and Pageau/Lazar up at C. Depth, depth, depth. It's NOT about line 1 and 2 and 3 etc., it's about coming together as a team and having the depth to win tight games and be competitive every single night and to come in and replace injured players with players that aren't Alex Cussing Chiasson.

wprager wrote:

spader wrote:I'd personally love to see them trade Mac and get a more bonafide top 6 LW.

Hoffman scored 27 and 29 goals in his first two years, improved his assists from one year to the next, and he wasn't getting the ice time his numbers warranted.  So can we agree that Hoffman is a legit top-line winger (provided he plays with a center that is defensively responsible).  That means you have CMac playing on the 2nd line (or third, if Smith is still here and still scoring).  

Again, where is the upgrade?  You are not going to just get a 30-goal winger.  There are not many of them and so they cost a lot and get to decide where they want to go.  Ottawa is *not* a "destination" for the discerning NHL star.  So you get a 2LW who can score 20-25 goals.  Smith is a stretch to reach that level, but CMac is not.  You are talking about 3-5 goals more.  And at what cost?

i cannot agree that Hoffman is a legit top line winger. We can do a LOT better than Hoffman (Eriksson, etc.). All you're looking at is goal totals which shouldn't be the focus.

SpezDispensed wrote:
This is what I mean, more or less, but instead of moving MacArthur, I want to move Stone down to the third line.  I don't care what anyone says, I want three balanced scoring lines.  I've wanted that forever.  Last year we came close, but we had that abomination Chiasson on the third line.  This year, I want him out and I want another big time top 6 RW so we have:

Hoffman - Turris - Ryan
MacArthur - Zibanejad - ???
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paul - Lazar - Dzingel
Neil

And...when there are injuries, you can move Stone up on RW and Dzingel up on LW and Pageau/Lazar up at C.  Depth, depth, depth.  It's NOT about line 1 and 2 and 3 etc., it's about coming together as a team and having the depth to win tight games and be competitive every single night and to come in and replace injured players with players that aren't Alex Cussing Chiasson.

I'm down for that. Purcell? Brouwer?

spader wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:
This is what I mean, more or less, but instead of moving MacArthur, I want to move Stone down to the third line.  I don't care what anyone says, I want three balanced scoring lines.  I've wanted that forever.  Last year we came close, but we had that abomination Chiasson on the third line.  This year, I want him out and I want another big time top 6 RW so we have:

Hoffman - Turris - Ryan
MacArthur - Zibanejad - ???
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paul - Lazar - Dzingel
Neil

And...when there are injuries, you can move Stone up on RW and Dzingel up on LW and Pageau/Lazar up at C.  Depth, depth, depth.  It's NOT about line 1 and 2 and 3 etc., it's about coming together as a team and having the depth to win tight games and be competitive every single night and to come in and replace injured players with players that aren't Alex Cussing Chiasson.

I'm down for that. Purcell? Brouwer?

I don't really know if Purcell is the kind of player we want. Brouwer would be great. Someone like that would be nice, someone like Eriksson would say 'we are serious about contending while Karlsson is still young'.

spader wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:
This is what I mean, more or less, but instead of moving MacArthur, I want to move Stone down to the third line.  I don't care what anyone says, I want three balanced scoring lines.  I've wanted that forever.  Last year we came close, but we had that abomination Chiasson on the third line.  This year, I want him out and I want another big time top 6 RW so we have:

Hoffman - Turris - Ryan
MacArthur - Zibanejad - ???
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paul - Lazar - Dzingel
Neil

And...when there are injuries, you can move Stone up on RW and Dzingel up on LW and Pageau/Lazar up at C.  Depth, depth, depth.  It's NOT about line 1 and 2 and 3 etc., it's about coming together as a team and having the depth to win tight games and be competitive every single night and to come in and replace injured players with players that aren't Alex Cussing Chiasson.

I'm down for that. Purcell? Brouwer?

I'd like to see a more realistic line up. One where Neil is a regular because that's what he'll be.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

spader wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:
This is what I mean, more or less, but instead of moving MacArthur, I want to move Stone down to the third line.  I don't care what anyone says, I want three balanced scoring lines.  I've wanted that forever.  Last year we came close, but we had that abomination Chiasson on the third line.  This year, I want him out and I want another big time top 6 RW so we have:

Hoffman - Turris - Ryan
MacArthur - Zibanejad - ???
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paul - Lazar - Dzingel
Neil

And...when there are injuries, you can move Stone up on RW and Dzingel up on LW and Pageau/Lazar up at C.  Depth, depth, depth.  It's NOT about line 1 and 2 and 3 etc., it's about coming together as a team and having the depth to win tight games and be competitive every single night and to come in and replace injured players with players that aren't Alex Cussing Chiasson.

I'm down for that. Purcell? Brouwer?

I'd like to see a more realistic line up. One where Neil is a regular because that's what he'll be.

Meh, I'd like to see him as a 13th forward personally. I think he'll play 45+ games though...when there are injuries.

SpezDispensed wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

spader wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:
This is what I mean, more or less, but instead of moving MacArthur, I want to move Stone down to the third line.  I don't care what anyone says, I want three balanced scoring lines.  I've wanted that forever.  Last year we came close, but we had that abomination Chiasson on the third line.  This year, I want him out and I want another big time top 6 RW so we have:

Hoffman - Turris - Ryan
MacArthur - Zibanejad - ???
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paul - Lazar - Dzingel
Neil

And...when there are injuries, you can move Stone up on RW and Dzingel up on LW and Pageau/Lazar up at C.  Depth, depth, depth.  It's NOT about line 1 and 2 and 3 etc., it's about coming together as a team and having the depth to win tight games and be competitive every single night and to come in and replace injured players with players that aren't Alex Cussing Chiasson.

I'm down for that. Purcell? Brouwer?

I'd like to see a more realistic line up. One where Neil is a regular because that's what he'll be.

Meh, I'd like to see him as a 13th forward personally.  I think he'll play 45+ games though...when there are injuries.

With that lineup, he probably starts ahead of Dzingel, but we'll see. I wouldn't be overly surprised either way.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

spader wrote:I'd personally love to see them trade Mac and get a more bonafide top 6 LW.

Hoffman scored 27 and 29 goals in his first two years, improved his assists from one year to the next, and he wasn't getting the ice time his numbers warranted.  So can we agree that Hoffman is a legit top-line winger (provided he plays with a center that is defensively responsible).  That means you have CMac playing on the 2nd line (or third, if Smith is still here and still scoring).  

Again, where is the upgrade?  You are not going to just get a 30-goal winger.  There are not many of them and so they cost a lot and get to decide where they want to go.  Ottawa is *not* a "destination" for the discerning NHL star.  So you get a 2LW who can score 20-25 goals.  Smith is a stretch to reach that level, but CMac is not.  You are talking about 3-5 goals more.  And at what cost?

i cannot agree that Hoffman is a legit top line winger. We can do a LOT better than Hoffman (Eriksson, etc.). All you're looking at is goal totals which shouldn't be the focus.

Scoring goals (and not getting scored on) is how you win. At least in the regular season. In playoffs a 7 game series can become a war of attrition. We are not going to find another left-winger who will score 30 goals without having to mortgage the future *and* give out a ton of $$$.

And I'm not looking only at goal totals but it's pointless having a top line where you have three guys with "defensive acumen" if they cannot score 60 goals between the three of them.

Stone is not a third liner.

spader wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

spader wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:
This is what I mean, more or less, but instead of moving MacArthur, I want to move Stone down to the third line.  I don't care what anyone says, I want three balanced scoring lines.  I've wanted that forever.  Last year we came close, but we had that abomination Chiasson on the third line.  This year, I want him out and I want another big time top 6 RW so we have:

Hoffman - Turris - Ryan
MacArthur - Zibanejad - ???
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paul - Lazar - Dzingel
Neil

And...when there are injuries, you can move Stone up on RW and Dzingel up on LW and Pageau/Lazar up at C.  Depth, depth, depth.  It's NOT about line 1 and 2 and 3 etc., it's about coming together as a team and having the depth to win tight games and be competitive every single night and to come in and replace injured players with players that aren't Alex Cussing Chiasson.

I'm down for that. Purcell? Brouwer?

I'd like to see a more realistic line up. One where Neil is a regular because that's what he'll be.

Meh, I'd like to see him as a 13th forward personally.  I think he'll play 45+ games though...when there are injuries.

With that lineup, he probably starts ahead of Dzingel, but we'll see. I wouldn't be overly surprised either way.

If that's what Boucher wants, then so be it, but Dzingel is more valuable at this point than Neil in my eyes.

wprager wrote:Stone is not a third liner.

He could be on a deep team with balanced scoring. If they roll the lines, it doesn't matter.

spader wrote:

wprager wrote:Stone is not a third liner.

He could be on a deep team with balanced scoring. If they roll the lines, it doesn't matter.

The only things that truly matter are "Off Season Rumours."

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

spader wrote:I'd personally love to see them trade Mac and get a more bonafide top 6 LW.

Hoffman scored 27 and 29 goals in his first two years, improved his assists from one year to the next, and he wasn't getting the ice time his numbers warranted.  So can we agree that Hoffman is a legit top-line winger (provided he plays with a center that is defensively responsible).  That means you have CMac playing on the 2nd line (or third, if Smith is still here and still scoring).  

Again, where is the upgrade?  You are not going to just get a 30-goal winger.  There are not many of them and so they cost a lot and get to decide where they want to go.  Ottawa is *not* a "destination" for the discerning NHL star.  So you get a 2LW who can score 20-25 goals.  Smith is a stretch to reach that level, but CMac is not.  You are talking about 3-5 goals more.  And at what cost?

i cannot agree that Hoffman is a legit top line winger. We can do a LOT better than Hoffman (Eriksson, etc.). All you're looking at is goal totals which shouldn't be the focus.

Scoring goals (and not getting scored on) is how you win.  At least in the regular season.  In playoffs a 7 game series can become a war of attrition.  We are not going to find another left-winger who will score 30 goals without having to mortgage the future *and* give out a ton of $$$.

And I'm not looking only at goal totals but it's pointless having a top line where you have three guys with "defensive acumen" if they cannot score 60 goals between the three of them.  

the point is you don't have to find another 30 goal scorer (which Hoffman has never done, so people need to stop saying that). You need to find one who also helps to PREVENT the other team from scoring.

They will easily get 60 goals from whoever is on the top line.

I see where EV is coming from and in the opposite way that's why I want Erikson here. I want mac on the 3rd line with mini-turris (pageau) centering him. I don't see smith here long term. But that still leave a hole on the 3rd line to fill. Brewer?

Who is Brewer?

I think Hoffman can be much better under Boucher and I hope the same about Ryan. What we lack is true secondary scoring, and not just from Zib, there are obviously question marks around Mac and even Ryan as well. The only two rock solid forwards I can think of in the top 6 are Turris and Stone. Pageau is excellent, but I agree, Smith will likely digress (although he has a role now and should excel, but...)

What we need is to make sure there's another threat in the top 9 - and as much as I really think Dzingel is a future 20 goal guy, we need an established player who can score 20 and be tough to play against, which won't be easy...

Dzingle a future 20 goal scorer? Are you already? He's an undersized winger who scored 17 in the AHL.