Deadline moves.

You guys can debate the merits of Hoffman's on-ice performance all you want, but the other half of the debate is whether or not he actually wants to stay in Ottawa long-term.

Michallica wrote:
SSF thinks Ceci is worth trading to get Drouin who's an unproven commodity (negative trade value IMO) while not realizing the hole Ceci's absence will leave.  

We had to go get Phaneuf, or someone else of a proven Top 3 calibre, to help Ceci. So, assuming we trade Ceci do you think it will be harder to find someone to help Phaneuf than it was to find someone to help Ceci? I sure don't.

I would rather take a chance on a 3rd overall pick who has done quite well in the NHL with limited minutes and lesser linemates, and have more than enough money to keep Hoffman than pass on Drouin, and sign Ceci to a deal that forces you to deal Hoffman.

Michallica wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:I'm actually not a huge fan of Hoffman either.  It's easy to be blinded by his amazing skill, speed and goal scoring prowess, but when the chips are down, the kid can really disappear.  Is he worth 5.75 or whatever on a 5 year term?  Not sure...at all.

And Drouin doesn't have negative value, he has massive value.  We're not getting him for Wiercioch and a 2nd or something silly like that.  I heard someone say Chabot and a 1st, and that's ludicrous, but it's probably closer than what we think here.

The bolded are based on what?  Drouin only has potential and the problem is everyone buying into the hype from media because he scored some dazzling goals in junior but hasn't done Dung in the nhl.

Meanwhile, not sure why ppl think hoffman disappears.  He scored some clutch goals last season (tied game versus pitts, scored lone goal to keep series alive against mtl) and has several GWG this season.  I think this market has forgotten how to get behind a sniper since heatley screwed us over and spezza collected points when the game was out of reach, and all that crud...

I can't really quantify Hoffman and his disappearing. When Stone and Ryan disappear, they at least add something to the lineup, particularly Stone, but when Hoffman disappears, he's near invisible. You can see him trying to get skating, but well coached teams know to keep him well in check so he can't get going - and then he's useless. That said, I appreciate the comment on him coming back and backchecking, he's been doing a good job of it recently.

Zibanejad is a whole different issue, I'm really annoyed with him and would like to upgrade him pronto.

Drouin is a major prospect or whatever you'd call him at 20. He's got pedigree and has already put up 40 points in ~80 games playing nowhere near the top 6. He'll cost a lot.

SpezDispensed wrote:I'm actually not a huge fan of Hoffman either.  It's easy to be blinded by his amazing skill, speed and goal scoring prowess, but when the chips are down, the kid can really disappear.  Is he worth 5.75 or whatever on a 5 year term?  Not sure...at all.

And Drouin doesn't have negative value, he has massive value.  We're not getting him for Wiercioch and a 2nd or something silly like that.  I heard someone say Chabot and a 1st, and that's ludicrous, but it's probably closer than what we think here.

What we think and what Stevie Y thinks is of little consequence. It's what the market will bear. So far the market has been telling Yzerman to go screw himself.

Flo The Action wrote:

Michallica wrote:Yeah we got some characters on this site.  

Ev hates Hoffman and yet thinks we can get rid of our depth cuz Colin White is gonna step in and score 30 goals next year.  

SSF thinks Ceci is worth trading to get Drouin who's an unproven commodity (negative trade value IMO) while not realizing the hole Ceci's absence will leave.  

And prags is a closet habs fan who let's just say isn't as enamored with Craig Anderson as the rest of us.

ANd anyone who thinks Hoffman should be traded for Drouin....

Couldn't of said it better.

For the last (I hope) time, I am not a close Habs fan. I was a fan back in the '70s and '80s when I lived there. I lived in Montreal for 20 years; I lived in Moscow for 12; Rome for a year and a half; Ottawa is coming up on 24. I've lived in Ottawa longer than anywhere else, I bought my first house here and I will probably buy my last house here, too; all my children were born here; my son and my dad are buried here and one day -- hopefully not too soon -- so will I be. This is my home town. I root for the home town team. I swear to God I will delete any post that says otherwise.

And as for Anderson, I'm not the only one.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:I'm actually not a huge fan of Hoffman either.  It's easy to be blinded by his amazing skill, speed and goal scoring prowess, but when the chips are down, the kid can really disappear.  Is he worth 5.75 or whatever on a 5 year term?  Not sure...at all.

And Drouin doesn't have negative value, he has massive value.  We're not getting him for Wiercioch and a 2nd or something silly like that.  I heard someone say Chabot and a 1st, and that's ludicrous, but it's probably closer than what we think here.

What we think and what Stevie Y thinks is of little consequence.   It's what the market will bear.  So far the market has been telling Yzerman to go screw himself.  

Someone's gonna step up, I think. If not, I sure hope we get him for scraps.

SpezDispensed wrote:

I can't really quantify Hoffman and his disappearing.  When Stone and Ryan disappear, they at least add something to the lineup, particularly Stone, but when Hoffman disappears, he's near invisible.  You can see him trying to get skating, but well coached teams know to keep him well in check so he can't get going - and then he's useless. That said, I appreciate the comment on him coming back and backchecking, he's been doing a good job of it recently.

Zibanejad is a whole different issue, I'm really annoyed with him and would like to upgrade him pronto.  

Drouin is a major prospect or whatever you'd call him at 20.  He's got pedigree and has already put up 40 points in ~80 games playing nowhere near the top 6.  He'll cost a lot.

When Stone is not scoring (and not producing assists) what is he bringing? He is not a heavy hitter. He kills penalties and he stands in front of the net blocking the goalie's vision.

Hoffman does back check. If he's out of position it's not because he's coasting like Ovechkin used to do. Could he be a little bit more careful with the puck? Sure, but do we really need another Curtis Lazar? If you compare how many times he carries the puck (I think there are stats for zone entries; should also be for exits) and then look at the giveaways relative to those numbers you'll likely see that Hoffman is not a turnover machine as some have claimed. He doesn't kill penalties, but he does draw them (and he takes very few). And when he's out there, especially on the road, the other team's best checkers are out there, leaving the other lines with softer opposition to play against.

wprager wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Michallica wrote:Yeah we got some characters on this site.  

Ev hates Hoffman and yet thinks we can get rid of our depth cuz Colin White is gonna step in and score 30 goals next year.  

SSF thinks Ceci is worth trading to get Drouin who's an unproven commodity (negative trade value IMO) while not realizing the hole Ceci's absence will leave.  

And prags is a closet habs fan who let's just say isn't as enamored with Craig Anderson as the rest of us.

ANd anyone who thinks Hoffman should be traded for Drouin....

Couldn't of said it better.

For the last (I hope) time, I am not a close Habs fan.  I was a fan back in the '70s and '80s when I lived there.  I lived in Montreal for 20 years; I lived in Moscow for 12; Rome for a year and a half; Ottawa is coming up on 24.  I've lived in Ottawa longer than anywhere else, I bought my first house here and I will probably buy my last house here, too; all my children were born here; my son and my dad are buried here and one day -- hopefully not too soon -- so will I be.  This is my home town.  I root for the home town team.  I swear to God I will delete any post that says otherwise.

And as for Anderson, I'm not the only one.

Nearing the 60's there ol' man!

Are you really comparing Stone's defensive game to Hoffman's? What in the world?

wprager wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

I can't really quantify Hoffman and his disappearing.  When Stone and Ryan disappear, they at least add something to the lineup, particularly Stone, but when Hoffman disappears, he's near invisible.  You can see him trying to get skating, but well coached teams know to keep him well in check so he can't get going - and then he's useless. That said, I appreciate the comment on him coming back and backchecking, he's been doing a good job of it recently.

Zibanejad is a whole different issue, I'm really annoyed with him and would like to upgrade him pronto.  

Drouin is a major prospect or whatever you'd call him at 20.  He's got pedigree and has already put up 40 points in ~80 games playing nowhere near the top 6.  He'll cost a lot.

When Stone is not scoring (and not producing assists) what is he bringing?  He is not a heavy hitter.  He kills penalties and he stands in front of the net blocking the goalie's vision.  

Hoffman does back check.  If he's out of position it's not because he's coasting like Ovechkin used to do.   Could he be a little bit more careful with the puck?  Sure, but do we really need another Curtis Lazar?  If you compare how many times he carries the puck  (I think there are stats for zone entries; should also be for exits) and then look at the giveaways relative to those numbers you'll likely see that Hoffman is not a turnover machine as some have claimed.  He doesn't kill penalties, but he does draw them (and he takes very few).  And when he's out there, especially on the road, the other team's best checkers are out there, leaving the other lines with softer opposition to play against.

What are you saying lol? When Stone isn't scoring, he's still fantastic defensively.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Michallica wrote:Yeah we got some characters on this site.  

Ev hates Hoffman and yet thinks we can get rid of our depth cuz Colin White is gonna step in and score 30 goals next year.  

SSF thinks Ceci is worth trading to get Drouin who's an unproven commodity (negative trade value IMO) while not realizing the hole Ceci's absence will leave.  

And prags is a closet habs fan who let's just say isn't as enamored with Craig Anderson as the rest of us.

ANd anyone who thinks Hoffman should be traded for Drouin....

Couldn't of said it better.

For the last (I hope) time, I am not a close Habs fan.  I was a fan back in the '70s and '80s when I lived there.  I lived in Montreal for 20 years; I lived in Moscow for 12; Rome for a year and a half; Ottawa is coming up on 24.  I've lived in Ottawa longer than anywhere else, I bought my first house here and I will probably buy my last house here, too; all my children were born here; my son and my dad are buried here and one day -- hopefully not too soon -- so will I be.  This is my home town.  I root for the home town team.  I swear to God I will delete any post that says otherwise.

And as for Anderson, I'm not the only one.

Nearing the 60's there ol' man!

I think we struck a nerve!

Hey Prags, lighten up buddy it's more fun to be on the site referring you to a habs fan. We all know you're a sens fan, don't worry, although you are quite complimentary towards le bleu blanc rouge. Worry about deleting more offensive posts than that. PRetty sure we rip on everyone on this site.

Eugene Melnyk also cheered for the habs that one year in the playoffs and I don't think I've hated him more than in that moment.

tim1_2 wrote:Are you really comparing Stone's defensive game to Hoffman's?  What in the world?

Not at all. Re-read what I wrote.

If you look at +/- you will see that Hoffman is not nearly the defensive liability you may think. When Stone wasn't scoring there, for a while, he racked up something ridiculous like -17 over a couple month period. Please don't tell me he was playing airtight defense over that span.

Not that I'm saying that Hoffman is better defensively than Stone. I may be argumentative but I'm not stupid.

Stone is making more money than Hoffman, right? You should expect more from him. Stone also hit a bit of a sophomore slump while Hoffman hasn't. What does that mean? No idea, but given how goals are hard to come by I suspect Hoffman will soon be paid more than Stone, but Stone will get the longer contract. Steak and sizzle.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Michallica wrote:Yeah we got some characters on this site.  

Ev hates Hoffman and yet thinks we can get rid of our depth cuz Colin White is gonna step in and score 30 goals next year.  

SSF thinks Ceci is worth trading to get Drouin who's an unproven commodity (negative trade value IMO) while not realizing the hole Ceci's absence will leave.  

And prags is a closet habs fan who let's just say isn't as enamored with Craig Anderson as the rest of us.

ANd anyone who thinks Hoffman should be traded for Drouin....

Couldn't of said it better.

For the last (I hope) time, I am not a close Habs fan.  I was a fan back in the '70s and '80s when I lived there.  I lived in Montreal for 20 years; I lived in Moscow for 12; Rome for a year and a half; Ottawa is coming up on 24.  I've lived in Ottawa longer than anywhere else, I bought my first house here and I will probably buy my last house here, too; all my children were born here; my son and my dad are buried here and one day -- hopefully not too soon -- so will I be.  This is my home town.  I root for the home town team.  I swear to God I will delete any post that says otherwise.

And as for Anderson, I'm not the only one.

Nearing the 60's there ol' man!

Nah, I'm not pushing 60, I'm pulling it closer to me is all. Did 40 push ups the other day, my 18-year-old kid (who fancies himself athletic) probably couldn't do 30.

SpezDispensed wrote:

What are you saying lol?  When Stone isn't scoring, he's still fantastic defensively.

Except for those two months where he wasn't. He and Turris were turrible. Kyle's excuse was that he only had enough ligaments for either his knee or ankle to do a 180, not both. Stone's excuse was that Turris wasn't producing.

Hoffman's been moved around more than you'd think and, more often than not, he's still producing.

Michallica wrote:
I think we struck a nerve!

Hey Prags, lighten up buddy it's more fun to be on the site referring you to a habs fan.  We all know you're a sens fan, don't worry, although you are quite complimentary towards le bleu blanc rouge.  Worry about deleting more offensive posts than that.  PRetty sure we rip on everyone on this site.

Eugene Melnyk also cheered for the habs that one year in the playoffs and I don't think I've hated him more than in that moment.  

Damn right you struck a nerve. I won't have my allegiance questioned when I've lived in this city and cheered for this team longer than some of you have been out of grade school. And you mistake me being nostalgic for the Nos Glorieux teams of the '70s and '80s (and '93) for complimentatry. Show me *ONE POST* where I was complimentary to any recent Habs team. Like I've said many times, the last Habs player I liked was Koivu. He just came up when I was either about to move to Ottawa or in my first year here.

wprager wrote:

Michallica wrote:
I think we struck a nerve!

Hey Prags, lighten up buddy it's more fun to be on the site referring you to a habs fan.  We all know you're a sens fan, don't worry, although you are quite complimentary towards le bleu blanc rouge.  Worry about deleting more offensive posts than that.  PRetty sure we rip on everyone on this site.

Eugene Melnyk also cheered for the habs that one year in the playoffs and I don't think I've hated him more than in that moment.  

Damn right you struck a nerve.  I won't have my allegiance questioned when I've lived in this city and cheered for this team longer than some of you have been out of grade school.  And you mistake me being nostalgic for the Nos Glorieux teams of the '70s and '80s (and '93) for complimentatry.  Show me *ONE POST* where I was complimentary to any recent Habs team.  Like I've said many times, the last Habs player I liked was Koivu.  He just came up when I was either about to move to Ottawa or in my first year here.  

I'm too lazy but you were quite complimentary when they went to the conference finals a couple years back. So was Melnyk. I got pretty good memory.

Michallica wrote:
I think we struck a nerve!

Hey Prags, lighten up buddy it's more fun to be on the site referring you to a habs fan.  We all know you're a sens fan, don't worry, although you are quite complimentary towards le bleu blanc rouge.  Worry about deleting more offensive posts than that.  PRetty sure we rip on everyone on this site.

Eugene Melnyk also cheered for the habs that one year in the playoffs and I don't think I've hated him more than in that moment.  

The guys says he's not a habs fan. Let it be ...

For the record I don't dislike Hoffman and think it's probably in our best interest to re-sign, but we so badly need an upgrade on zbad, that he might have to be traded to fill that spot.

And I still think he can be shut down with good coaching. I hesitate to say easily, but I've noticed it's not overly difficult