Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:On another note, I'm in ottawa tonight and might head over to big rigs for dinner.

how's the black bean & sweet potato burger there? anybody tried it? (somehow i doubt i'm talking to the right audience)

Their pizza is pretty close to perfect... it's the perfect pizza.

Very good but a little too thick for my taste

That's what makes it great... bah

It is great. The meat lovers is unreal

The stout was a little watery (I like my stouts a little thicker) and the grilled cheese panini was Ok. You'd think for the price you'd pay they'd make their own coleslaw, not some cheap store bought crap. They got a few lessons to learn, should scoot over to the works since they got a few inspirations from them already and steal the rest of the ideas.

Everyone analyzing the whole goaltenders dilemma here is really thinking its Lehner getting moved.

We are going to regret this in a big way if we are.... God don't do it.

I agree we should keep Lehner and move Anderson, but for some reason I think it might be Lehner that moves now that O'Connor is signed.

I'm the biggest Lehner fan on the planet but there is no way you can't see the writing on the wall for the guy, he's going to be traded. Is it a certainty? No but I think it's pretty close to one.

Perhaps they can't resign Hammond and they just run with Lehner/Anderson next year, could happen. It would be a giant mistake no matter who else the organization has in in goal so they need to move one guy.

Lehner has pissed some guys off in that room. You can't tell your team to be better when you are letting in very stoppable shots each game. I think those stop going in as time goes by and he matures but you can't do that, it tears the team apart.

Anderson showed again in the playoffs why he is so important. Yah, tons of ups and downs and can't really be counted on but he's signed to a reasonable deal and he's capable to stealing games and a playoff series, you can't say that about anyone else at this point.

O'Connor being signed is basically the sign that he's the guy they want to turn into their goalie of the future. This is a player they have hand picked to get the job in the AHL and eventually the top spot in Ottawa.

Lehner moving is absolutely the best thing for this team because they can add a couple very solid assets for him. Edmonton and Buffalo both have mid round 1sts and very early 2nds to use to land Lehner. Fact is he won't land a top 6 guy but he can or sure land some assets the Sens could use.

Pitt's 1st (16 overall)
NYI/Stl (21st or 26th overall)
Buf and Edm both have 2 2nd rounders (31st and 33rd overall and late 2nd round selections).

You can use those additional assets to land the top 6 forward they really want.

Anderson has won one playoff series in his career. Regardless of how well he played, he has not been the difference maker in the playoffs, and it shows that if they improvemother areas they don't need to rely on goaltending to win.

Basically if the team thinks Lehner still has great long term upside they won't move him. They're not a team that needs to focus on the present, which is all Anderson is about.

They had plenty of chances to move Lehner before. Stupid to do it now while his value is lower. He has had one bad year with a lot of Dung happening around him.

I don't think signing Connor means that they clearly think he's a goalie of the future. Ottawa needed an AHL starter bad and that's what he is right now. Anything else is gravy

Ev wrote:Anderson has won one playoff series in his career. Regardless of how well he played, he has not been the difference maker in the playoffs, and it shows that if they improvemother areas they don't need to rely on goaltending to win.

Basically if the team thinks Lehner still has great long term upside they won't move him. They're not a team that needs to focus on the present, which is all Anderson is about.

They had plenty of chances to move Lehner before. Stupid to do it now while his value is lower. He has had one bad year with a lot of Dung happening around him.

I don't think signing Connor means that they clearly think he's a goalie of the future. Ottawa needed an AHL starter bad and that's what he is right now. Anything else is gravy

Almost single handedly won a series against SJS. Won a series single handedly vs the Habs in 13. Almost did it again this year. Say what you want about the guy (and I do) but he's a capable and proven NHL playoff goaltender. No one else is.

If the team has soured on Lehner (players included) in any way then that's the guy they should be moving. It will be a mess if they go with a guy they aren't sure of, isn't sure of himself, and just has general question marks around him. There has never been an opportunity like this to move Lehner, not once.

That being said Lehner 23 year old goalie capable of being a #1 guy of star potential, teams know this. If you think he's going to be traded for scrap you're completely wrong. There is 5 years of development and with a lot of it being a success to go with Lehner and that counts for a lot. GM's around the NHL are not stupid and don't use the "what have you done for me today" mentality with young players.

Both Edmonton and Buffalo will be swinging for the fences to get a goaltender that can grow with their team, it's pretty obvious. There are other options out there but Lehner checks a lot of boxes in terms of what a young team needs in terms of goaltending. He's a short and long term solution.

As for O'Connon... they signed him as the goalie of the future. I don't see how that is debatable. They have Lehner, Hogberg, and Dreidger, all of whom are around the same age as O'Connor yet he's being given the big push? They obviously feel he can be the guy at some point down the road.

I also don't recall Lehner calling the team out. If you are talking about the little look or a gesture of frustration after letting in a goal where his own player screened him or tipped it, I can find similar reactions for every goaltender in the universe. It happens. Used to happen with Price all the time -- he's matured quite a bit from 5-6 years ago. While Anderson may not show it during the game (although I'm pretty sure you can find some recent footage of goals where he *does* react similarly) he certainly has no trouble saying *we* have to play better while never saying *I* have to make that stop.

"Perfect shot, 12" off the ice just inside the post and in" -- that was Andy's assessment of Wiese's second goal in OT. "That's what they call an AHL goal" -- that was Pierre's (and a couple other analysts') assessment.

Look, *we* can't (shouldn't) put the blame on a goalie who stopped the other 45 shots to keep them in the game in the first place, but the goalie himself certainly should not have a problem saying "Yeah, should have stopped that one; Wiese isn't Crosby after all."

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:Anderson has won one playoff series in his career. Regardless of how well he played, he has not been the difference maker in the playoffs, and it shows that if they improvemother areas they don't need to rely on goaltending to win.

Basically if the team thinks Lehner still has great long term upside they won't move him. They're not a team that needs to focus on the present, which is all Anderson is about.

They had plenty of chances to move Lehner before. Stupid to do it now while his value is lower. He has had one bad year with a lot of Dung happening around him.

I don't think signing Connor means that they clearly think he's a goalie of the future. Ottawa needed an AHL starter bad and that's what he is right now. Anything else is gravy

Almost single handedly won a series against SJS.  Won a series single handedly vs the Habs in 13.  Almost did it again this year.  Say what you want about the guy (and I do) but he's a capable and proven NHL playoff goaltender.  No one else is.

If the team has soured on Lehner (players included) in any way then that's the guy they should be moving.  It will be a mess if they go with a guy they aren't sure of, isn't sure of himself, and just has general question marks around him.  There has never been an opportunity like this to move Lehner, not once.  

That being said Lehner 23 year old goalie capable of being a #1 guy of star potential, teams know this.  If you think he's going to be traded for scrap you're completely wrong.  There is 5 years of development and with a lot of it being a success to go with Lehner and that counts for a lot.  GM's around the NHL are not stupid and don't use the "what have you done for me today" mentality with young players.

Both Edmonton and Buffalo will be swinging for the fences to get a goaltender that can grow with their team, it's pretty obvious.  There are other options out there but Lehner checks a lot of boxes in terms of what a young team needs in terms of goaltending.  He's a short and long term solution.

As for O'Connon... they signed him as the goalie of the future.  I don't see how that is debatable.  They have Lehner, Hogberg, and Dreidger, all of whom are around the same age as O'Connor yet he's being given the big push?  They obviously feel he can be the guy at some point down the road.

They signed O Connor to add depth and he's a free asset. That's like saying they signed Da Costa to be their future second line centre. Signing a free agent college goalie as your goalie of the future would be quite dumb. They think he's better than driedher, but after that anything else would be gravy and you can't count on him making he NHL yet. If they used a first round pick in him, then you can say they viewed him as their future goalie. What if the Rangers signed him? They wouldn't be viewing him as their future goalie.

Like I said, regardless of how Andy played in the playoffs, he has won one series out five in his career. That's it. And saying he single handedly beat the Habs in 2013 is wrong. Cmon. Yes he has layer well i the playoffs, but what good is that if you win 20% of the time? If Anderson can give more in a trade you deal him.

wprager wrote:I also don't recall Lehner calling the team out.  If you are talking about the little look or a gesture of frustration after letting in a goal where his own player screened him or tipped it, I can find similar reactions for every goaltender in the universe.  It happens.  Used to happen with Price all the time -- he's matured quite a bit from 5-6 years ago.  While Anderson may not show it during the game (although I'm pretty sure you can find some recent footage of goals where he *does* react similarly) he certainly has no trouble saying *we* have to play better while never saying *I* have to make that stop.

"Perfect shot, 12" off the ice just inside the post and in" -- that was Andy's assessment of Wiese's second goal in OT.  "That's what they call an AHL goal" -- that was Pierre's (and a couple other analysts') assessment.

Look, *we* can't (shouldn't) put the blame on a goalie who stopped the other 45 shots to keep them in the game in the first place, but the goalie himself certainly should not have a problem saying "Yeah, should have stopped that one; Wiese isn't Crosby after all."

Not when the game is over and you are the reason they lost the game. It was the Columbus game, Foligno scored a weak goal on Lehner and with less than a min left the scored 2 on Lehner to really put it away and he laid it on the team whether it was with words or body language. You can't do that and yah, from what I know that was when a lot of it started going downhill for Lehner.

Either way this isn't a discussion in my mind about who should or shouldn't stay, it's about who is likely to move out and the reason's for it. Lehner should be the guy the Sens have been rolling with for a season or two by now but it's not how it all shook out and I put 99% of that on MacLean. He may have ruined Lehner as an Ottawa Senator, it was disaster for Lehner. Didn't matter how well he played, he was always going back to the bench.

Anderson is a better option in the playoffs and that's the goal going forward, the playoffs or better. Anderson gives the Sens the best short term (2, 3 years) of winning in the playoffs, Lehner being backup to that is just asking for trouble... it hasn't worked for the past 2, 3 seasons and it won't work next year.

Hammond should be the backup for the next couple seasons no matter who the #1 is, he's the perfect guy to have there and a guy everyone has a great amount of admiration for, organization and fans alike.

O'Connor is going to get to show what he has in the AHL and probably push for a job after that at the NHL level.

Having Lehner as a piece to really make the Sens a better team is a good thing, the one thing they can't do is make another Conacher type deal, they should be moving him for picks that they can either A) turn into the exact player they want via trade or B) turning those picks into a player they have scouted and are more sure about than a Conacher.

I just don't see any scenario where they don't move Lehner short of Hammond walking for no reason and Ottawa not wanting to go out and sign a backup and they just go with Lehner/Anderson which again IMO is a disaster waiting to happen.

wprager wrote:I also don't recall Lehner calling the team out.  If you are talking about the little look or a gesture of frustration after letting in a goal where his own player screened him or tipped it, I can find similar reactions for every goaltender in the universe.  It happens.  Used to happen with Price all the time -- he's matured quite a bit from 5-6 years ago.  While Anderson may not show it during the game (although I'm pretty sure you can find some recent footage of goals where he *does* react similarly) he certainly has no trouble saying *we* have to play better while never saying *I* have to make that stop.

"Perfect shot, 12" off the ice just inside the post and in" -- that was Andy's assessment of Wiese's second goal in OT.  "That's what they call an AHL goal" -- that was Pierre's (and a couple other analysts') assessment.

Look, *we* can't (shouldn't) put the blame on a goalie who stopped the other 45 shots to keep them in the game in the first place, but the goalie himself certainly should not have a problem saying "Yeah, should have stopped that one; Wiese isn't Crosby after all."

Anderson blames the team all the time when things go wrong. It's all BS and anyone can make the criticism for each guy depending on their bias or who they're trying to defend. Anderson is all of a sudden Jesus after going 2-2 in the postseason when he isn't the reason at all that they were even in the postseason to begin with.

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:Anderson has won one playoff series in his career. Regardless of how well he played, he has not been the difference maker in the playoffs, and it shows that if they improvemother areas they don't need to rely on goaltending to win.

Basically if the team thinks Lehner still has great long term upside they won't move him. They're not a team that needs to focus on the present, which is all Anderson is about.

They had plenty of chances to move Lehner before. Stupid to do it now while his value is lower. He has had one bad year with a lot of Dung happening around him.

I don't think signing Connor means that they clearly think he's a goalie of the future. Ottawa needed an AHL starter bad and that's what he is right now. Anything else is gravy

Almost single handedly won a series against SJS.  Won a series single handedly vs the Habs in 13.  Almost did it again this year.  Say what you want about the guy (and I do) but he's a capable and proven NHL playoff goaltender.  No one else is.

If the team has soured on Lehner (players included) in any way then that's the guy they should be moving.  It will be a mess if they go with a guy they aren't sure of, isn't sure of himself, and just has general question marks around him.  There has never been an opportunity like this to move Lehner, not once.  

That being said Lehner 23 year old goalie capable of being a #1 guy of star potential, teams know this.  If you think he's going to be traded for scrap you're completely wrong.  There is 5 years of development and with a lot of it being a success to go with Lehner and that counts for a lot.  GM's around the NHL are not stupid and don't use the "what have you done for me today" mentality with young players.

Both Edmonton and Buffalo will be swinging for the fences to get a goaltender that can grow with their team, it's pretty obvious.  There are other options out there but Lehner checks a lot of boxes in terms of what a young team needs in terms of goaltending.  He's a short and long term solution.

As for O'Connon... they signed him as the goalie of the future.  I don't see how that is debatable.  They have Lehner, Hogberg, and Dreidger, all of whom are around the same age as O'Connor yet he's being given the big push?  They obviously feel he can be the guy at some point down the road.

They signed O Connor to add depth and he's a free asset. That's like saying they signed Da Costa to be their future second line centre. Signing a free agent college goalie as your goalie of the future would be quite dumb. They think he's better than driedher, but after that anything else would be gravy and you can't count on him making he NHL yet. If they used a first round pick in him, then you can say they viewed him as their future goalie. What if the Rangers signed him? They wouldn't be viewing him as their future goalie.

Like I said, regardless of how Andy played in the playoffs, he has won one series out five in his career. That's it. And saying he single handedly beat the Habs in 2013 is wrong. Cmon. Yes he has layer well i the playoffs, but what good is that if you win 20% of the time? If Anderson can give more in a trade you deal him.

Is there a goalie in the Sens organization capable of stealing a playoff series? Yes there is. Is there more than one? No there isn't. That's what professionals will look at and roll with, the proven guy. There is literally ONE proven goaltender in the Sens organization and it's Anderson.

Out of those 5 playoff series you talk about, only the Pitt one in 13 is the one you can point at and say Anderson wasn't the best player in that series.

SJS in 2010 (?) he was easily the best player in that series
NYR 2012 he was the best player in that series and almost stole it as an 8 seed
MTL in 2013, Sens won as the dog and again Anderson was the best player.
Pitt in 2013, stated above.
MTL 2015, almost took the Sens out of a huge hole and was the best player in every game he played in.

He's a proven NHL playoff goaltender, doesn't matter if he won only 1 of those series because (besides this year) they were all far and away teams that should have had no chance in the series above.

As for O'Connor... saying you will move a player if need be to sign him, right to his face, is a pretty good indicator of what they think of him and where they see him going.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:I also don't recall Lehner calling the team out.  If you are talking about the little look or a gesture of frustration after letting in a goal where his own player screened him or tipped it, I can find similar reactions for every goaltender in the universe.  It happens.  Used to happen with Price all the time -- he's matured quite a bit from 5-6 years ago.  While Anderson may not show it during the game (although I'm pretty sure you can find some recent footage of goals where he *does* react similarly) he certainly has no trouble saying *we* have to play better while never saying *I* have to make that stop.

"Perfect shot, 12" off the ice just inside the post and in" -- that was Andy's assessment of Wiese's second goal in OT.  "That's what they call an AHL goal" -- that was Pierre's (and a couple other analysts') assessment.

Look, *we* can't (shouldn't) put the blame on a goalie who stopped the other 45 shots to keep them in the game in the first place, but the goalie himself certainly should not have a problem saying "Yeah, should have stopped that one; Wiese isn't Crosby after all."

Anderson blames the team all the time when things go wrong. It's all BS and anyone can make the criticism for each guy depending on their bias or who they're trying to defend. Anderson is all of a sudden Jesus after going 2-2 in the postseason when he isn't the reason at all that they were even in the postseason to begin with.

You are looking at it from one POV, that's it. If you are the Sens what is the upside in moving Anderson over Lehner? There really isn't one.

Break it down to common sense and it's a pretty clear decision. I wouldn't let Lehner walk for Anderson, I think it's a move that had a huge possibility to back fire and hurt the Sens (especially if moved to Buffalo) but common sense points to Anderson staying and it's pretty obvious.

The only thing that really would put a small wrench in things is if Hammond walked. If they sign Hammond before the draft Lehner is certainly gone. If for some reason they trade Anderson (which I hope) then they obviously feel Lehner can be the guy right now but there is nothing to indicate they feel like that, players or management.

Again what good is Anderson playing very well in the playoffs if the team around him can't get it done? You need to maximize value and trade him to improve other areas. You're not gonna win if you're team doesn't improve. People are too blinded but what he did in the playoffs this year, where he didn't even win over 50% of games. Before that nobody cared about him anymore, yourself included NEELY, as you said he was done as a Sen numerous times.

The sens are not a team that should be focusing on just the next two seasons. They need to look at the big picture. Shipping Anderson does not decrease our odds of ding well next year given the fact he had nothing to do with our success this season anyway

As for Connor, they were going to move a goalie regardless once Hammond signs. Has nothing to do with Oconnor.

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:I also don't recall Lehner calling the team out.  If you are talking about the little look or a gesture of frustration after letting in a goal where his own player screened him or tipped it, I can find similar reactions for every goaltender in the universe.  It happens.  Used to happen with Price all the time -- he's matured quite a bit from 5-6 years ago.  While Anderson may not show it during the game (although I'm pretty sure you can find some recent footage of goals where he *does* react similarly) he certainly has no trouble saying *we* have to play better while never saying *I* have to make that stop.

"Perfect shot, 12" off the ice just inside the post and in" -- that was Andy's assessment of Wiese's second goal in OT.  "That's what they call an AHL goal" -- that was Pierre's (and a couple other analysts') assessment.

Look, *we* can't (shouldn't) put the blame on a goalie who stopped the other 45 shots to keep them in the game in the first place, but the goalie himself certainly should not have a problem saying "Yeah, should have stopped that one; Wiese isn't Crosby after all."

Anderson blames the team all the time when things go wrong. It's all BS and anyone can make the criticism for each guy depending on their bias or who they're trying to defend. Anderson is all of a sudden Jesus after going 2-2 in the postseason when he isn't the reason at all that they were even in the postseason to begin with.

You are looking at it from one POV, that's it.  If you are the Sens what is the upside in moving Anderson over Lehner?  There really isn't one.  

Break it down to common sense and it's a pretty clear decision.  I wouldn't let Lehner walk for Anderson, I think it's a move that had a huge possibility to back fire and hurt the Sens (especially if moved to Buffalo) but common sense points to Anderson staying and it's pretty obvious.

The only thing that really would put a small wrench in things is if Hammond walked.  If they sign Hammond before the draft Lehner is certainly gone.  If for some reason they trade Anderson (which I hope) then they obviously feel Lehner can be the guy right now but there is nothing to indicate they feel like that, players or management.

I don't thinks obvious at all. I feel if they trade Lehner they are making the biggest mistake in franchise history.

The upside in moving Anderson over Lehner is maximizing your trade return AND saving money at the same time.

That's strictly from one point of view though.

This is how the decision will be made.

What's the goal? Playoffs.
Who gives the Sens the best chance in the playoffs? Anderson
He will be hurt, who steps in? Hammond has proven he can win games.
What if Hammond is hurt? O'Connor will be the first call up and play some games.

So they move Lehner.

Maybe they shock people and move Anderson for the reasons you stated but their goal is for their team to win games next year, not to maximize a trade on someone they might actually believe in because the other guy doesn't get as much back.

Every decision from here on out will be made based on the fact they probably feel close to competing for a cup. Whoever they move will be based on that.

Ev wrote:Again what good is Anderson playing very well in the playoffs if the team around him can't get it done? You need to maximize value and trade him to improve other areas. You're not gonna win if you're team doesn't improve. People are too blinded but what he did in the playoffs this year, where he didn't even win over 50% of games. Before that nobody cared about him anymore, yourself included NEELY, as you said he was done as a Sen numerous times.

The sens are not a team that should be focusing on just the next two seasons. They need to look at the big picture. Shipping Anderson does not decrease our odds of ding well next year given the fact he had nothing to do with our success this season anyway

As for Connor, they were going to move a goalie regardless once Hammond signs. Has nothing to do with Oconnor.

I still hope he has. My opinion on both guys hasn't changed but my opinion on the situation has based on O'Connor signing, Hammond being offered a deal, and Anderson being the only playoff goalie the Sens have right now.

If the Sens feel O'Connor is the goalie they want to roll with after Anderson, Lehner is gone. Simple as that. You can state you don't believe O'Connor is the goalie of the future or the Sens believe it but if they do believe it, Lehner is gone.

NEELY wrote:That's strictly from one point of view though.

This is how the decision will be made.

What's the goal?  Playoffs.
Who gives the Sens the best chance in the playoffs?  Anderson
He will be hurt, who steps in?  Hammond has proven he can win games.
What if Hammond is hurt?  O'Connor will be the first call up and play some games.

So they move Lehner.

Maybe they shock people and move Anderson for the reasons you stated but their goal is for their team to win games next year, not to maximize a trade on someone they might actually believe in because the other guy doesn't get as much back.

Every decision from here on out will be made based on the fact they probably feel close to competing for a cup.  Whoever they move will be based on that.

They're not close to competing a for a cup. Look at the mistake Vancouver made keeping luongo over Schneider.

To get a top six forward they need to clear money. Anderson helps in that way.

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:Again what good is Anderson playing very well in the playoffs if the team around him can't get it done? You need to maximize value and trade him to improve other areas. You're not gonna win if you're team doesn't improve. People are too blinded but what he did in the playoffs this year, where he didn't even win over 50% of games. Before that nobody cared about him anymore, yourself included NEELY, as you said he was done as a Sen numerous times.

The sens are not a team that should be focusing on just the next two seasons. They need to look at the big picture. Shipping Anderson does not decrease our odds of ding well next year given the fact he had nothing to do with our success this season anyway

As for Connor, they were going to move a goalie regardless once Hammond signs. Has nothing to do with Oconnor.

I still hope he has.  My opinion on both guys hasn't changed but my opinion on the situation has based on O'Connor signing, Hammond being offered a deal, and Anderson being the only playoff goalie the Sens have right now.

If the Sens feel O'Connor is the goalie they want to roll with after Anderson, Lehner is gone.  Simple as that.  You can state you don't believe O'Connor is the goalie of the future or the Sens believe it but if they do believe it, Lehner is gone.  

To be a playoff goalie you have to start at the bottom at one point. Lots of teams had unproven guys start for them this year. I don't think it matters at all whether or not a guy is proven, or else the Habs would have kept Halak.

I think it matters more if the guy is a proven winner which Anderson is not.