GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Tampa Bay Lightning - 7:00pm ET - Sat. Oct. 11th, 2014

I think our d isn't close to what Murray thought it would be- for the 2nd straight year. But again, 2 games in.

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:I'll just say that I have given up on Cowen, I think he's a bust and I think the sooner they move him the better.  Doesn't have the hockey sense or mental strength to be anything more than a bottom pairing D man at this point.  

If he's a bottom pairing dman he isn't really a bust technically speaking, and you just said you have no issues with gryba so the same could be same for Cowen as a bottom pairing.

Also don't forget that things change fast when it comes to young dmen. Not saying it will, but you will recall how you really wanted Del zotto and would have traded two key pieces for him.

Well if you are hoping Cowen is just good enough to be a bottom pairing D man then that's fine but he isn't being paid like one and at that point he busted, he was drafted 9th overall. You can't keep a bust in your organization IMO for a number of reasons.

Weircioch will never be a bust, Gryba will never be a bust, it's a benefit of being drafted outside the first round. Just the way it is.

You can point out a time I was wrong for sure but I have been right about a ton too and I believe in my opinion on Cowen in a big way. The red flags he has raised are not correctable.

I agree with that I just think it isn't a problem if he doesn't turn out to be what they wanted him to be. But we have depth so it might make sense to deal him now.

My dream scenario would be to deal him in a package for Myers.

SpezDispensed wrote:I think our d isn't close to what Murray thought it would be- for the 2nd straight year.  But again, 2 games in.

Would not be surprised to see Cowen moved once Methot is good to go.

Normally I like Gryba, Boro is a good 6 guy, Ceci is really solid and Methot the juries out on.

Phillips has been a bright light so far though.

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:I'll just say that I have given up on Cowen, I think he's a bust and I think the sooner they move him the better.  Doesn't have the hockey sense or mental strength to be anything more than a bottom pairing D man at this point.  

If he's a bottom pairing dman he isn't really a bust technically speaking, and you just said you have no issues with gryba so the same could be same for Cowen as a bottom pairing.

Also don't forget that things change fast when it comes to young dmen. Not saying it will, but you will recall how you really wanted Del zotto and would have traded two key pieces for him.

Well if you are hoping Cowen is just good enough to be a bottom pairing D man then that's fine but he isn't being paid like one and at that point he busted, he was drafted 9th overall.  You can't keep a bust in your organization IMO for a number of reasons.

Weircioch will never be a bust, Gryba will never be a bust, it's a benefit of being drafted outside the first round.  Just the way it is.  

You can point out a time I was wrong for sure but I have been right about a ton too and I believe in my opinion on Cowen in a big way.  The red flags he has raised are not correctable.

sure they can be, hell Cody Ceci had the same flags two years ago and people thought Hedman was dumber than sliced bread.

The del zotto example wasn't pointing out that you were wrong it was pointing out that it's hard to predict when it comes to these guys who haven't had a ton of experience. Pretty sure 200 games or 300 games is what Potvin said you have to reach to get the true projection on a dman.

Also Wiercioch will be a bit of a bust if he doesn't establish himself because he got a decent contract.

SpezDispensed wrote:I think our d isn't close to what Murray thought it would be- for the 2nd straight year.  But again, 2 games in.

It's not and a lot of that is on him and the staff. They have failed to draft well outside of Karlsson when it comes to defencemen at the top of the draft, and they focused too much on forwards.

Ev wrote:I agree with that I just think it isn't a problem if he doesn't turn out to be what they wanted him to be. But we have depth so it might make sense to deal him now.

My dream scenario would be to deal him in a package for Myers.

I think Cowen is deal is for a pick or another project up front... might be able to get a 2nd for him best case on a team that is desperate for some D. Colorado maybe, NJ...

You really think Murray would move him? He's so loyal and he has confidence that he can be that guy. I think when Dorion takes over - maybe.

Just wait till Methot comes back, stick him on the bottom pair and nobody will be talking about him for a while.

I can perhaps see that. Having him anywhere near the top pairing is bad news.

SpezDispensed wrote:You really think Murray would move him?  He's so loyal and he has confidence that he can be that guy.  I think when Dorion takes over - maybe.

I question if that's the case anymore. He was already read the riot act.

Ev wrote:Just wait till Methot comes back, stick him on the bottom pair and nobody will be talking about him for a while.

He stuggled there last year too, don't think it will be any different.

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:Just wait till Methot comes back, stick him on the bottom pair and nobody will be talking about him for a while.

He stuggled there last year too, don't think it will be any different.

Naw he was on second pair.

He was paired with Gryba last year for a good portion of the season, after he struggled there he was scratched.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:You really think Murray would move him?  He's so loyal and he has confidence that he can be that guy.  I think when Dorion takes over - maybe.

I question if that's the case anymore.  He was already read the riot act.

Still think Murray will give him the year minimum.

Maybe he will, not sure. I wouldn't, I would be looking to move that 3 mil a year bust and go with a better player in PW. That's how I see it but again I am not Murray.

I would too. Coming off injury doesn't make you brain dead.