GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Tampa Bay Lightning - 7:00pm ET - Sat. Oct. 11th, 2014

Flo The Action wrote:I dunno, it's two games in. you have to think that there's many factors that could be at play. yes there are red-flags for sure but right now if you were to move him you'd moving him for low value. they might want to play him on the 3rd pairing for a while and see how he adjusts to that. sucks because without Methot we're in a week position.

only a couple weeks ago everyone was saying how much a a beast he was going to be.
caution!

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Little more size than Rundblad.  If he can be average in his own zone, learn the ropes, etc, he will be a solid point producing D man.  

Cowen on the other hand is supposed to be the big, physical force in the defensive zone who can log big mins... he's anything but.  Unlike Weircioch, Cowen has been given every single benefit of the doubt and every chance to succeed... he's failed.  IMO it is because of injury which lead to poor development.  Can only imagine how Wiercioch would look now with the time and money spent on Cowen.

We'll we can't say Wiercioch cna just learn the ropes and say Cowen is a bust who can't. I think both have been disappointing for what we expected. Hopefully some of the recent d picks turn out. However I don't see them giving up on Cowen right now.

I think Cowen can still be a serviceable nhler like Luke Schenn but if we did want to trade him I'd be fine with that given the return.

SpezDispensed wrote:It's hard to say anything definitive after only 2 games.   I'd love to see Wiercioch for 5 games or so, but there's such a catch 22 with benching Cowen.  It doesn't help him, that's for sure.  His confidence must be at a low right now.

I'd scratch Gryba and put in Wiercioch next game.  Gryba is way too inconsistent for a simple, stay at home guy.  If he isn't defending properly, what is he good for?

Cowen needs to get better and play simple, smart (not sure if that's possible) shutdown hockey. Once he's mastered  that then he can think about jumping up into the play.  

The other problem is that Mac wants dmen jumping up it seems and there's a lack of forwards to cover their bacon all the time.

Im interested to see who gets scratched, because I'm pretty sure it'll be one of Gryba or Cowen.

NEELY wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I dunno, it's two games in. you have to think that there's many factors that could be at play. yes there are red-flags for sure but right now if you were to move him you'd moving him for low value. they might want to play him on the 3rd pairing for a while and see how he adjusts to that. sucks because without Methot we're in a week position.

only a couple weeks ago everyone was saying how much a a beast he was going to be.
caution!

No it's not, it's been close to 100.  Cowen isn't going to develop into the D man they wanted when they drafted him.  He's had multiple serious injuries, his skating has been affected because of it, his decision making is beyond poor, and he has trouble raising his intensity level when he is supposed to be a physical force.

IMO he has busted already, he can't catch up on the development he has missed.  

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Little more size than Rundblad.  If he can be average in his own zone, learn the ropes, etc, he will be a solid point producing D man.  

Cowen on the other hand is supposed to be the big, physical force in the defensive zone who can log big mins... he's anything but.  Unlike Weircioch, Cowen has been given every single benefit of the doubt and every chance to succeed... he's failed.  IMO it is because of injury which lead to poor development.  Can only imagine how Wiercioch would look now with the time and money spent on Cowen.

We'll we can't say Wiercioch cna just learn the ropes and say Cowen is a bust who can't. I think both have been disappointing for what we expected. Hopefully some of the recent d picks turn out. However I don't see them giving up on Cowen right now.

I think Cowen can still be a serviceable nhler like Luke Schenn but if we did want to trade him I'd be fine with that given the return.

I am not saying Wiercioch is a sure fire top 4 guy even though I believe he will be, he has progressed, maybe a little slow but he's progressed none the less.  My entire point or question is, how would Wiercioch look with the time and committment that has been given to Cowen?

I don't thinkt they will give up on Cowen tomorrow either but it's pretty close to sh*t or get off the pot time.  I don't see it getting any better.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:It's hard to say anything definitive after only 2 games.   I'd love to see Wiercioch for 5 games or so, but there's such a catch 22 with benching Cowen.  It doesn't help him, that's for sure.  His confidence must be at a low right now.

I'd scratch Gryba and put in Wiercioch next game.  Gryba is way too inconsistent for a simple, stay at home guy.  If he isn't defending properly, what is he good for?

Cowen needs to get better and play simple, smart (not sure if that's possible) shutdown hockey. Once he's mastered  that then he can think about jumping up into the play.  

The other problem is that Mac wants dmen jumping up it seems and there's a lack of forwards to cover their bacon all the time.

Im interested to see who gets scratched, because I'm pretty sure it'll be one of Gryba or Cowen.

Has he even been on for a goal against? lol  He's a plus one and is playing fine... why on earth would you take out the only RH defensive D man?  Makes less than no sense.

Cowen is the worst D man on the Sens right now and they have given him enough rope to hang himself.  Right now he has completely cut off his wind pipe.  Like I said above as well it's not 2 games... it's close to 100 where he has been a below average NHL D man.

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Little more size than Rundblad.  If he can be average in his own zone, learn the ropes, etc, he will be a solid point producing D man.  

Cowen on the other hand is supposed to be the big, physical force in the defensive zone who can log big mins... he's anything but.  Unlike Weircioch, Cowen has been given every single benefit of the doubt and every chance to succeed... he's failed.  IMO it is because of injury which lead to poor development.  Can only imagine how Wiercioch would look now with the time and money spent on Cowen.

We'll we can't say Wiercioch cna just learn the ropes and say Cowen is a bust who can't. I think both have been disappointing for what we expected. Hopefully some of the recent d picks turn out. However I don't see them giving up on Cowen right now.

I think Cowen can still be a serviceable nhler like Luke Schenn but if we did want to trade him I'd be fine with that given the return.

I am not saying Wiercioch is a sure fire top 4 guy even though I believe he will be, he has progressed, maybe a little slow but he's progressed none the less.  My entire point or question is, how would Wiercioch look with the time and committment that has been given to Cowen?

I don't thinkt they will give up on Cowen tomorrow either but it's pretty close to sh*t or get off the pot time.  I don't see it getting any better.

They've invested just as much time in Wiercioch as they have Cowen. They also signed him to a longish deal

SpezDispensed wrote:Stupid penalty that led to a goal and two straight poor games.  Screw +\-

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Little more size than Rundblad.  If he can be average in his own zone, learn the ropes, etc, he will be a solid point producing D man.  

Cowen on the other hand is supposed to be the big, physical force in the defensive zone who can log big mins... he's anything but.  Unlike Weircioch, Cowen has been given every single benefit of the doubt and every chance to succeed... he's failed.  IMO it is because of injury which lead to poor development.  Can only imagine how Wiercioch would look now with the time and money spent on Cowen.

We'll we can't say Wiercioch cna just learn the ropes and say Cowen is a bust who can't. I think both have been disappointing for what we expected. Hopefully some of the recent d picks turn out. However I don't see them giving up on Cowen right now.

I think Cowen can still be a serviceable nhler like Luke Schenn but if we did want to trade him I'd be fine with that given the return.

I am not saying Wiercioch is a sure fire top 4 guy even though I believe he will be, he has progressed, maybe a little slow but he's progressed none the less.  My entire point or question is, how would Wiercioch look with the time and committment that has been given to Cowen?

I don't thinkt they will give up on Cowen tomorrow either but it's pretty close to sh*t or get off the pot time.  I don't see it getting any better.

They've invested just as much time in Wiercioch as they have Cowen. They also signed him to a longish deal

there is no chance anyone can honestly say with a straight face that Wiercioch has had the same chances as Cowen.

NEELY wrote:I'll just say that I have given up on Cowen, I think he's a bust and I think the sooner they move him the better.  Doesn't have the hockey sense or mental strength to be anything more than a bottom pairing D man at this point.  

SpezDispensed wrote:We'll see.  Too many more bonehead plays and he'll be sitting.  Cowen - they almost have to let him work things out I think.  What the heck else can we do?

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Little more size than Rundblad.  If he can be average in his own zone, learn the ropes, etc, he will be a solid point producing D man.  

Cowen on the other hand is supposed to be the big, physical force in the defensive zone who can log big mins... he's anything but.  Unlike Weircioch, Cowen has been given every single benefit of the doubt and every chance to succeed... he's failed.  IMO it is because of injury which lead to poor development.  Can only imagine how Wiercioch would look now with the time and money spent on Cowen.

We'll we can't say Wiercioch cna just learn the ropes and say Cowen is a bust who can't. I think both have been disappointing for what we expected. Hopefully some of the recent d picks turn out. However I don't see them giving up on Cowen right now.

I think Cowen can still be a serviceable nhler like Luke Schenn but if we did want to trade him I'd be fine with that given the return.

I am not saying Wiercioch is a sure fire top 4 guy even though I believe he will be, he has progressed, maybe a little slow but he's progressed none the less.  My entire point or question is, how would Wiercioch look with the time and committment that has been given to Cowen?

I don't thinkt they will give up on Cowen tomorrow either but it's pretty close to sh*t or get off the pot time.  I don't see it getting any better.

They've invested just as much time in Wiercioch as they have Cowen. They also signed him to a longish deal

there is no chance anyone can honestly say with a straight face that Wiercioch has had the same chances as Cowen.

Well he got those chances because he was coming off injury. Wiercioch has had many chances to establish himself, he's played 100 games in the league. Cowen has had more chances because they have always believed he projects to be better

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:I'll just say that I have given up on Cowen, I think he's a bust and I think the sooner they move him the better.  Doesn't have the hockey sense or mental strength to be anything more than a bottom pairing D man at this point.  

If he's a bottom pairing dman he isn't really a bust technically speaking, and you just said you have no issues with gryba so the same could be same for Cowen as a bottom pairing.

Also don't forget that things change fast when it comes to young dmen. Not saying it will, but you will recall how you really wanted Del zotto and would have traded two key pieces for him.