General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:My mistake 18.25.

Well that's certainly better than the QO and he was right in rejecting it.

But holy hell, that's over $6M/year when he has had consecutive bad seasons (yes, injuries played into that); I now always compare D-men contracts to Karlsson and this one feels like a bit of an overpayment given past results.

The QO only needed to be 100% of his last salary, so they did that just to keep his rights in check.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:My mistake 18.25.

Well that's certainly better than the QO and he was right in rejecting it.

But holy hell, that's over $6M/year when he has had consecutive bad seasons (yes, injuries played into that); I now always compare D-men contracts to Karlsson and this one feels like a bit of an overpayment given past results.

You're being a little hard on him IMO. He had ridiculous 76 and 73 point seasons and before that a 56 point season. He's had injury issues the last two years, but he's easy to invest that money into when healthy. I think that's fair market value personally. If I was Washington, I would have tried for a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal, but I guess they couldn't persuade him.

While I have nothing against Methot, nor am I certain what role he will play in Ottawa, fact is he was a bottom pairing d-man, and almost a 7th d-man in Columbus. So you are basically saying that a crap team like Columbus has a really good defence because Methot (a supposed top pairing d-man in Ottawa) was pished out of the line-up.

So I stand by the many opinions of Columbus fans that they are relieved to have gotten rid of an overpaid, bottom pairing at best d-man.

Doesn't mean he won't be more in Ottawa, but it's still very much the case that is what he was in Columbus.

NEELY wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Riprock wrote:He was 5th among their defenceman in TOI and 4th in shifts/game.

And I have read enough Columbus fans opinions that he was not integral to their team.

He was expendable because he was overpaid and they had younger, cheaper guys who were pushing him down the chart.

Oh yah, because Wiznewski isn't the big mistake they had on that blueline right? If they could give up Wiznewski or Methot, who do you think they would have gotten rid of?

I don't care what their fans say, I watched enough Columbus games over the past few years to know exactly where Methot stands in terms of their defence at the time. He was a top 4 guy, simple as that. For a defensive D man on an awful team, he was pretty good.

He was injured most of last season anyways so how anyone can jump to the conclusion that he wasn't a top 4 guy there is unreal. Where was he before they brought in Johnson and Wiznewski? Oh yah, the top 4.

Maybe instead of reading what other people think, watch some games yourself. I'm not ripping on you, I'm ripping on anyone that forms their own personal opinion based on someone elses personal opinion. Watch the frigging game(s).

Wiznewski is a much, much better player then Marc Methot. I watched a ton of Columbus games last year (mostly when the Brassard rumours were popping up and then when Johnson was traded there) and while Wiz takes big risks, he can be downright electric when he's on.

And saying that Methot is a top-four defenceman on the worse team in the league doesn't make me feel any better about him as a player and our hopes for a playoff spot with him in the top-four. I'll even go out on a limb here and say that he finishes the year on the bottom pairing behind one of Phillips, Lundin or Boro (imo behind at least 2 of those guys). Would be nice if I could be proven wrong on this one though.

Wiznewski is a better player, he isn't 5 years at 2.5 more a season better. That's my point. If you think Ottawa came to them and said "we want Wiz or Methot for Folgino" who do you think they would have moved? Pretty easy answer.

As for a top 4 on the worst team in the league, that doesn't mean a thing. They might be the worst team in the league but they didn't have the worst defense in the league. They had absolutely no goaltending and no forward support in terms of goal scoring or defensive awareness. Hitchcock left a long time ago.

Rick Nash was a top 3 forward on the worst team in the NHL... what does that make him? Same argument, different player.

I think the bottom line is: we got a kid who averages 1.3 blocked shots per game (in 10/11), had 176 hits in 74 games, so an average of 2.4 hits per game, is a huge body on the back end, apparently likes to get physical in clearing the crease area (a major concern on the Sens last year IMO) and is apparently very mobile. Not just decent, but very good mobility - which I think sold this trade to Murray and co.

Those numbers come from a terrible organization with a terrible product on the ice and God knows who coaching. He's coming to an organization that's a big cut above with a Jack Adams nominated coach who loves his D joining the rush. If he's paired with Karlsson, he'll be the guy who covers his arse and makes sure no one diddles with him. If he's with Gonchar, it'll be the basic same deal, covering for Gonchar's mistakes in the defensive zone and joining the rush from time to time.

We seem to have acquired a really good shutdown D-man with good mobility to join Cowen, hopefully it works out, but on paper, Foligno for Methot sounds about right (although I think we could have gotten a pick as well).

First of all, Ottawa really had no options on D. Acquiring Methot was probably their best bet to adding a guy they hope to be a top 4 shutdown guy. I assume that is where he will play - Murray said he sees him playing alongside a guy like Karlsson or Ceci. But it's also up to Methot to give them a reason to play him there and MacLean as well.

I am just pointing out he was, in the opinion of many Columbus fans from various walks of life, a bottom pairing defenceman at best on their team, and overpaid for what he did.

Riprock wrote:First of all, Ottawa really had no options on D. Acquiring Methot was probably their best bet to adding a guy they hope to be a top 4 shutdown guy. I assume that is where he will play - Murray said he sees him playing alongside a guy like Karlsson or Ceci. But it's also up to Methot to give them a reason to play him there and MacLean as well.

I am just pointing out he was, in the opinion of many Columbus fans from various walks of life, a bottom pairing defenceman at best on their team, and overpaid for what he did.

I think that's an odd assessment from C-Bus fans considering the year prior to last he had 176 hits on the backend and averaged well over a block per game. His offensive numbers may bring him down to a bottom pairing role I guess, but what pushed him down to a bottom pairing?

Was it the fact that he only played 46 games? Was it the emergence of Nikitin? Was it because the left side is filled up with Tyutin and Johson in the top 4? I don't buy that he was a 'bottom pairing' guy, I think they paid through the arse for Johnson and the Wiz and Tyutin was blocking Methot from advancing up the depth charts.

EDIT: I also don't know what they mean because he averaged 20 minutes a night for C-Bus. Not many 3rd pairing Ds play that much.

Riprock wrote:While I have nothing against Methot, nor am I certain what role he will play in Ottawa, fact is he was a bottom pairing d-man, and almost a 7th d-man in Columbus. So you are basically saying that a crap team like Columbus has a really good defence because Methot (a supposed top pairing d-man in Ottawa) was pished out of the line-up.

So I stand by the many opinions of Columbus fans that they are relieved to have gotten rid of an overpaid, bottom pairing at best d-man.

Doesn't mean he won't be more in Ottawa, but it's still very much the case that is what he was in Columbus.

No he wasn't. Do I need to define the term "fact"?. He was injured 1/2 the season to begin with, Johnson didn't get there until Feb... Wiz was suspended 8 games to start the season...

People using the last place argument, well it's a garbage theory. Holds no weight because if it did the same would be said for Rick Nash.

Well he was good enough to be selected to Team Canada for the Worlds.

We also know how well Columbus does at developing their young talent, now don't we.

How about giving Methot a chance before trashing him.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Riprock wrote:First of all, Ottawa really had no options on D. Acquiring Methot was probably their best bet to adding a guy they hope to be a top 4 shutdown guy. I assume that is where he will play - Murray said he sees him playing alongside a guy like Karlsson or Ceci. But it's also up to Methot to give them a reason to play him there and MacLean as well.

I am just pointing out he was, in the opinion of many Columbus fans from various walks of life, a bottom pairing defenceman at best on their team, and overpaid for what he did.

I think that's an odd assessment from C-Bus fans considering the year prior to last he had 176 hits on the backend and averaged well over a block per game. His offensive numbers may bring him down to a bottom pairing role I guess, but what pushed him down to a bottom pairing?

Was it the fact that he only played 46 games? Was it the emergence of Nikitin? Was it because the left side is filled up with Tyutin and Johson in the top 4? I don't buy that he was a 'bottom pairing' guy, I think they paid through the arse for Johnson and the Wiz and Tyutin was blocking Methot from advancing up the depth charts.

EDIT: I also don't know what they mean because he averaged 20 minutes a night for C-Bus. Not many 3rd pairing Ds play that much.

The answer is none. Fact is he is a big time shot blocker, works the PK well, and plays a regular even strength shift. If you take a regular shift and are part of the 1st PK or PP unit, your top 4, end of story. TOI determines where you stand in terms of depth, not a depth chart made up by a 23 year old living in his parents basement.

sandysensfan wrote:Well he was good enough to be selected to Team Canada for the Worlds.

We also know how well Columbus does at developing their young talent, now don't we.

How about giving Methot a chance before trashing him.

In fairness to Dash, he wasn't trashing him. Not gonna call him out for something he clearly isn't doing. That said, I don't think he has a clue about what Methot has done in his career or how he plays the game short of what he has read on top of not actually watching Methot at all.

NEELY wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:Well he was good enough to be selected to Team Canada for the Worlds.

We also know how well Columbus does at developing their young talent, now don't we.

How about giving Methot a chance before trashing him.

In fairness to Dash, he wasn't trashing him. Not gonna call him out for something he clearly isn't doing. That said, I don't think he has a clue about what Methot has done in his career or how he plays the game short of what he has read on top of not actually watching Methot at all.

Everyone on here does that from time to time though, you're getting agitated with Dash for voicing his concerns on Methot, when a lot of us are a little nervous handing him the reigns to playing with Karlsson.

Also, there are a lot of numbskulls out there and a lot of bad information - which is why I say to people to be careful what they read on HF.

The stats don't play out that he was a bottom pairing D-man, what C-Bus fans are saying (I think) is that he's behind Nikitin, Tyutin, Wiz, Johnson, so by that rationale he's a bottom pairing.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:Well he was good enough to be selected to Team Canada for the Worlds.

We also know how well Columbus does at developing their young talent, now don't we.

How about giving Methot a chance before trashing him.

In fairness to Dash, he wasn't trashing him. Not gonna call him out for something he clearly isn't doing. That said, I don't think he has a clue about what Methot has done in his career or how he plays the game short of what he has read on top of not actually watching Methot at all.

Everyone on here does that from time to time though, you're getting agitated with Dash for voicing his concerns on Methot, when a lot of us are a little nervous handing him the reigns to playing with Karlsson.

Also, there are a lot of numbskulls out there and a lot of bad information - which is why I say to people to be careful what they read on HF.

The stats don't play out that he was a bottom pairing D-man, what C-Bus fans are saying (I think) is that he's behind Nikitin, Tyutin, Wiz, Johnson, so by that rationale he's a bottom pairing.

No, I would have taken it to anyone who said that it just happened to be Dash. A lot of people have gone on and said that same BS and truth of the matter is if most of those people watched 1 or Columbus games in the last 3 years and they were both against Ottawa.

That's why I am on this topic because people are trying to post BS and inaccurate, misinformed information and stating it as some sort of fact.

If Cowen is pairing with Lundin does that make him a 5, 6 guy? Nope, that just shows who is partner is. If he plays 20 mins a night, he's a top 4 D man, end of story.

Never a good thing when there's nothing but quiet around a high profile guy like Semin. Not sure what's up here, is he waiting for Doan? I don't see that as being a huge stumbling block when Doan wants to stay in the West.

Semin probably has a huge offer from the KHL but no NHL team will come close to matching it in terms of the length of the contract. Just my guess. No NHL team is that stupid.

Depends on what he wants then, I doubt a team will offer him more than 18 million bucks on a 3 year term.

Yeah I wasn't trashing Methot. I am just pointing out that, according to fans of Columbus, he was a bottom pairing defenceman. He had lost his spot and some even considered him a 7th guy. And they did not like that he was being paid that much.

They didn't say he was bad - they were just glad he is gone. The impression I get from their comments is that he is an average defensive defenceman.

I am not saying he is - and even if he is/I was, I am not saying he can't be more. Tonnes of players go from limited roles on one team to bigger roles on others, and some from big to limited roles. Some players are top 6 centers on one team and healthy scratches on a good team.

And really who cares if he is/was a bottom pairing defenceman in Columbus - I don't know why some of you are so bothered when I say he is/was. But according to people who probably follow and watch them as much as some of us do with the Sens, he lost his spot.

And again, just to point out, he was 5th on the team for TOI for d-men. And it doesn't mean he can't be a bottom pairing guy and still play that much - he might see a lot of time vs. other teams top lines, or lots of time on the PK. Bottom line - he is/was a bottom 6.

He gets a fresh start in Ottawa, and like pretty much all new players there, he wll be given a chance for the biggest role until otherwise.

SpezDispenser wrote:Never a good thing when there's nothing but quiet around a high profile guy like Semin. Not sure what's up here, is he waiting for Doan? I don't see that as being a huge stumbling block when Doan wants to stay in the West.

Semin wants to play in Detroit for about 100,000 but the Wings keep telling him they have to pay the league minimum.

Riprock wrote:Yeah I wasn't trashing Methot. I am just pointing out that, according to fans of Columbus, he was a bottom pairing defenceman. He had lost his spot and some even considered him a 7th guy. And they did not like that he was being paid that much.

They didn't say he was bad - they were just glad he is gone. The impression I get from their comments is that he is an average defensive defenceman.

I am not saying he is - and even if he is/I was, I am not saying he can't be more. Tonnes of players go from limited roles on one team to bigger roles on others, and some from big to limited roles. Some players are top 6 centers on one team and healthy scratches on a good team.

And really who cares if he is/was a bottom pairing defenceman in Columbus - I don't know why some of you are so bothered when I say he is/was. But according to people who probably follow and watch them as much as some of us do with the Sens, he lost his spot.

And again, just to point out, he was 5th on the team for TOI for d-men. And it doesn't mean he can't be a bottom pairing guy and still play that much - he might see a lot of time vs. other teams top lines, or lots of time on the PK. Bottom line - he is/was a bottom 6.

He gets a fresh start in Ottawa, and like pretty much all new players there, he wll be given a chance for the biggest role until otherwise.

He got pushed down, no question. Guys with huge contracts, younger players they think have more upside, and the 2nd overall pick in Murray is basically on the team already. He lost his spot, sure, I buy that because looking at things it seems to be true. That said, when he played, he wasn't given sheltered minutes, he wasn't a liability on the ice, and he was a big part of their PK. When he was playing, he was in the top 4, that's my point.

He missed 1/2 the season and being brought back in with an even deeper blueline when he left, yah, his TOI went down a little but he was still at the 20 min mark which isn't what bottom 6 D play. He played agianst a lot of teams top lines and he was on the 1st PK unit when he played, 5, 6 D men don't play in those situations for the most part.

He basically fell into the same role A Train fell into in Ottawa and at the end of the day Ottawa needed something different as does Columbus. That's who I would compare him to if you want to look at a comparable, A Train was just on a bette team.

Methot was not a bottom paring D man though... people saying he was when he was playing are full of it. He played a lot of big minutes for the Blue Jackets... well as big as they get in Columbus anyways.