General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

Yeah I wasn't trashing Methot. I am just pointing out that, according to fans of Columbus, he was a bottom pairing defenceman. He had lost his spot and some even considered him a 7th guy. And they did not like that he was being paid that much.

They didn't say he was bad - they were just glad he is gone. The impression I get from their comments is that he is an average defensive defenceman.

I am not saying he is - and even if he is/I was, I am not saying he can't be more. Tonnes of players go from limited roles on one team to bigger roles on others, and some from big to limited roles. Some players are top 6 centers on one team and healthy scratches on a good team.

And really who cares if he is/was a bottom pairing defenceman in Columbus - I don't know why some of you are so bothered when I say he is/was. But according to people who probably follow and watch them as much as some of us do with the Sens, he lost his spot.

And again, just to point out, he was 5th on the team for TOI for d-men. And it doesn't mean he can't be a bottom pairing guy and still play that much - he might see a lot of time vs. other teams top lines, or lots of time on the PK. Bottom line - he is/was a bottom 6.

He gets a fresh start in Ottawa, and like pretty much all new players there, he wll be given a chance for the biggest role until otherwise.

SpezDispenser wrote:Never a good thing when there's nothing but quiet around a high profile guy like Semin. Not sure what's up here, is he waiting for Doan? I don't see that as being a huge stumbling block when Doan wants to stay in the West.

Semin wants to play in Detroit for about 100,000 but the Wings keep telling him they have to pay the league minimum.

Riprock wrote:Yeah I wasn't trashing Methot. I am just pointing out that, according to fans of Columbus, he was a bottom pairing defenceman. He had lost his spot and some even considered him a 7th guy. And they did not like that he was being paid that much.

They didn't say he was bad - they were just glad he is gone. The impression I get from their comments is that he is an average defensive defenceman.

I am not saying he is - and even if he is/I was, I am not saying he can't be more. Tonnes of players go from limited roles on one team to bigger roles on others, and some from big to limited roles. Some players are top 6 centers on one team and healthy scratches on a good team.

And really who cares if he is/was a bottom pairing defenceman in Columbus - I don't know why some of you are so bothered when I say he is/was. But according to people who probably follow and watch them as much as some of us do with the Sens, he lost his spot.

And again, just to point out, he was 5th on the team for TOI for d-men. And it doesn't mean he can't be a bottom pairing guy and still play that much - he might see a lot of time vs. other teams top lines, or lots of time on the PK. Bottom line - he is/was a bottom 6.

He gets a fresh start in Ottawa, and like pretty much all new players there, he wll be given a chance for the biggest role until otherwise.

He got pushed down, no question. Guys with huge contracts, younger players they think have more upside, and the 2nd overall pick in Murray is basically on the team already. He lost his spot, sure, I buy that because looking at things it seems to be true. That said, when he played, he wasn't given sheltered minutes, he wasn't a liability on the ice, and he was a big part of their PK. When he was playing, he was in the top 4, that's my point.

He missed 1/2 the season and being brought back in with an even deeper blueline when he left, yah, his TOI went down a little but he was still at the 20 min mark which isn't what bottom 6 D play. He played agianst a lot of teams top lines and he was on the 1st PK unit when he played, 5, 6 D men don't play in those situations for the most part.

He basically fell into the same role A Train fell into in Ottawa and at the end of the day Ottawa needed something different as does Columbus. That's who I would compare him to if you want to look at a comparable, A Train was just on a bette team.

Methot was not a bottom paring D man though... people saying he was when he was playing are full of it. He played a lot of big minutes for the Blue Jackets... well as big as they get in Columbus anyways.

Yeah and Chris Phillips plays almost 20 mins a game too, and he also plays on the bottom pairing. I think you are making too big a deal about where he played in Columbus. I am simply pointing out that while he still played a big role and was effective, bottom line he was a 3rd pairing guy. Why is that such a bad thing?

Riprock wrote:Yeah and Chris Phillips plays almost 20 mins a game too, and he also plays on the bottom pairing. I think you are making too big a deal about where he played in Columbus. I am simply pointing out that while he still played a big role and was effective, bottom line he was a 3rd pairing guy. Why is that such a bad thing?

Bottom pairing is so relative. If Methot is all the sudden paired with Karlsson is he now a top pairing D man? No he's not. Defense isn't the same as forward, you can't just pigeon hole a guy as a bottom pairing D man because people think that's where he falls on the depth chart.

Ottawa for example...

Kuba/Karlsson
Cowen/Gonchar
Phillips/Lee

or is it

Kuba/Karlsson
Phillips/Lee
Cowen/Gonchar

or is it

Kuba/Karlsson
Phillip/Gonchar
Cowen/Lee

It's all relative. You go based on the game, a players role, his value, and what that player brings. Fans can put together all the depth charts they want but pairings are mixed and matched every single night. You know how you can tell who the #6 D man is? It's the guy that comes in and out of the lineup as opposed to the player who is in there every single night no matter what.

Since you like to talk to Columbus fans or at least listen to what they have to say, ask them how many times Methot was a healthy scratch. Besides his first season the answer is not a lot and I am not sure if he ever actually was.

Well Methot will play more minutes than Carkner did.. and will probably be better. The big difference is that Carkner fights.. Methot doesn't. But he does block shots and hits.

As for Lundin.... Chuck Flether was on the Team 1200, last week I believe.. and he said they wanted to keep him in Minny for this season.. He also said Lundin played well during Tampa's playoff run a couple of seasons ago. So hopefully he should be fine in the 5-6 spot probably with Phillips.

Just go by ice time.

Your top pairing should be logging ~25 minutes.

2nd pairing 20 minutes.

3rd pairing 15 minutes.

4 years, 13 million for Gagner apparently...

Not confirmed by anyone reputable I don't think.

SpezDispenser wrote:Just go by ice time.

Your top pairing should be logging ~25 minutes.

2nd pairing 20 minutes.

3rd pairing 15 minutes.

It's not pairing vs pairing. It's an individual stat unless all the pairings stick together all the time.

Ok, and still he was 5th on the team in TOI. FIFTH. as in 1-2, 3-4, 5-6.

Again, why does it matter? He's going to be given a chance to play key minutes here, so who cares.

SpezDispenser wrote:4 years, 13 million for Gagner apparently...

Not confirmed by anyone reputable I don't think.

Ha. So far it's been "confirmed" by Creasy, NHLSourcesSay, and HockeyInsiderr. That means it didn't happen.

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:4 years, 13 million for Gagner apparently...

Not confirmed by anyone reputable I don't think.

Ha. So far it's been "confirmed" by Creasy, NHLSourcesSay, and HockeyInsiderr. That means it didn't happen.

Agreed.

I see nothing wrong with that if true or not. $3.5M/year for a young guy who has put up 40+ points in each of his NHL years.

Riprock wrote:I see nothing wrong with that if true or not. $3.5M/year for a young guy who has put up 40+ points in each of his NHL years.

It's about right, yeah.

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:My mistake 18.25.

Well that's certainly better than the QO and he was right in rejecting it.

But holy hell, that's over $6M/year when he has had consecutive bad seasons (yes, injuries played into that); I now always compare D-men contracts to Karlsson and this one feels like a bit of an overpayment given past results.

You're being a little hard on him IMO. He had ridiculous 76 and 73 point seasons and before that a 56 point season. He's had injury issues the last two years, but he's easy to invest that money into when healthy. I think that's fair market value personally. If I was Washington, I would have tried for a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal, but I guess they couldn't persuade him.

Put his 76-point season into perspective, though. The team had Ovechkin (before he turned average), Semin and Backstrom and his lead over his closest competition was not 30% of his own points. Yes, I'm comparing his season with that of Karlsson. It's fair to say that Karlsson's season was a heck of a lot more remarkable given the team makeup (Greening and Butler spent significant time on the top line), his lead over the closest competition and the percentage of his team's goals he was involved in. Right after that season -- and winning the Norris, to boot -- he signs for $6.5M; yet two sub-par years after his less remarkable season Green is making over $6M.

NEELY wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:Well he was good enough to be selected to Team Canada for the Worlds.

We also know how well Columbus does at developing their young talent, now don't we.

How about giving Methot a chance before trashing him.

In fairness to Dash, he wasn't trashing him. Not gonna call him out for something he clearly isn't doing. That said, I don't think he has a clue about what Methot has done in his career or how he plays the game short of what he has read on top of not actually watching Methot at all.

I would appreciate if you were not so fair with me

sandysensfan wrote:Well Methot will play more minutes than Carkner did.. and will probably be better. The big difference is that Carkner fights.. Methot doesn't. But he does block shots and hits.

As for Lundin.... Chuck Flether was on the Team 1200, last week I believe.. and he said they wanted to keep him in Minny for this season.. He also said Lundin played well during Tampa's playoff run a couple of seasons ago. So hopefully he should be fine in the 5-6 spot probably with Phillips.

Doesn't fight as much (or as well) as Carkner, for sure, but given a reason he'll do it:

Riprock wrote:Ok, and still he was 5th on the team in TOI. FIFTH. as in 1-2, 3-4, 5-6.

Again, why does it matter? He's going to be given a chance to play key minutes here, so who cares.

How about the previous year, when he was *not* injured for half the season?