General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

Riprock wrote:Ottawa took on Columbus' bottom pairing $3M d-man for a uy they are paying like a top 6.

Ok, that's simply not true. Get it right. He plays top 4 mins and the only reason Columbus moved him is because they have too much tied up on the back end and not enough talent up front. Methot isn't a bottom pairing D man and people who keep saying this really need to educate themselves about the type of player he is, the role he will succeed in, and what he brings as a whole.

Ottawa traded a 3rd line forward for a top 4 D man, probably top 2 considering he will be paired with Karlsson. See how you can swing it?

It's a trade that made on a ton of sense for both parties, no question asked.

He was 5th among their defenceman in TOI and 4th in shifts/game.

And I have read enough Columbus fans opinions that he was not integral to their team.

He was expendable because he was overpaid and they had younger, cheaper guys who were pushing him down the chart.

Riprock wrote:He was 5th among their defenceman in TOI and 4th in shifts/game.

And I have read enough Columbus fans opinions that he was not integral to their team.

He was expendable because he was overpaid and they had younger, cheaper guys who were pushing him down the chart.

Oh yah, because Wiznewski isn't the big mistake they had on that blueline right? If they could give up Wiznewski or Methot, who do you think they would have gotten rid of?

I don't care what their fans say, I watched enough Columbus games over the past few years to know exactly where Methot stands in terms of their defence at the time. He was a top 4 guy, simple as that. For a defensive D man on an awful team, he was pretty good.

He was injured most of last season anyways so how anyone can jump to the conclusion that he wasn't a top 4 guy there is unreal. Where was he before they brought in Johnson and Wiznewski? Oh yah, the top 4.

Maybe instead of reading what other people think, watch some games yourself. I'm not ripping on you, I'm ripping on anyone that forms their own personal opinion based on someone elses personal opinion. Watch the frigging game(s).

Just to clarify as well, I'm not saying Methot is a legit, top 4 D man in the making and the Sens walked off with some sort of steal, I am saying he was top 4 in most of his time in Columbus and does have the ability to play top mins as it stands.

He could be a total bust next year and at best be a #6 guy... from what I have seen though he could very well thrive having a partner like Karlsson where he knows exactly what is expected of him as opposed to Columbus where no one has any idea what the team wants from them.

3 years, 18.25 for Green.

SpezDispenser wrote:3 years, 18.75 for Green.

Probably about right.

My mistake 18.25.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Riprock wrote:You have to earn your contracts and raises, not get them because you are entitled to a raise.

Maybe in the real world. Not so much in pro sports.

The automatic raises he's talking about are probably the ones for the QOs. Those are based on salary and years of service. In Green's case he did not qualify for an automatic raise so, yeah, he's got to earn it.

NEELY wrote:

Riprock wrote:He was 5th among their defenceman in TOI and 4th in shifts/game.

And I have read enough Columbus fans opinions that he was not integral to their team.

He was expendable because he was overpaid and they had younger, cheaper guys who were pushing him down the chart.

Oh yah, because Wiznewski isn't the big mistake they had on that blueline right? If they could give up Wiznewski or Methot, who do you think they would have gotten rid of?

I don't care what their fans say, I watched enough Columbus games over the past few years to know exactly where Methot stands in terms of their defence at the time. He was a top 4 guy, simple as that. For a defensive D man on an awful team, he was pretty good.

He was injured most of last season anyways so how anyone can jump to the conclusion that he wasn't a top 4 guy there is unreal. Where was he before they brought in Johnson and Wiznewski? Oh yah, the top 4.

Maybe instead of reading what other people think, watch some games yourself. I'm not ripping on you, I'm ripping on anyone that forms their own personal opinion based on someone elses personal opinion. Watch the frigging game(s).

Wiznewski is a much, much better player then Marc Methot. I watched a ton of Columbus games last year (mostly when the Brassard rumours were popping up and then when Johnson was traded there) and while Wiz takes big risks, he can be downright electric when he's on.

And saying that Methot is a top-four defenceman on the worse team in the league doesn't make me feel any better about him as a player and our hopes for a playoff spot with him in the top-four. I'll even go out on a limb here and say that he finishes the year on the bottom pairing behind one of Phillips, Lundin or Boro (imo behind at least 2 of those guys). Would be nice if I could be proven wrong on this one though.

Riprock wrote:Not just the "cheap ones".

The smart ones. Why would Ottawa have paid Kuba what Florida did?

Kuba and Carkner both lucked out, IMO. Carkner got twice the salary and three times the term. He must have kissed his agent on the mouth.

Kuba, well, would have been OK to keep him but Methot will provide better protection for Karlsson. And the stats on Karlsson when playing with/without Kuba actually showed that he produced at a higher rate when paired up with other defenders than he did with Kuba. That was pretty much unexpected, for me.

NEELY wrote:

Riprock wrote:Ottawa took on Columbus' bottom pairing $3M d-man for a uy they are paying like a top 6.

Ok, that's simply not true. Get it right. He plays top 4 mins and the only reason Columbus moved him is because they have too much tied up on the back end and not enough talent up front. Methot isn't a bottom pairing D man and people who keep saying this really need to educate themselves about the type of player he is, the role he will succeed in, and what he brings as a whole.

Ottawa traded a 3rd line forward for a top 4 D man, probably top 2 considering he will be paired with Karlsson. See how you can swing it?

It's a trade that made on a ton of sense for both parties, no question asked.

Yep, and strictly from a $$ p.o.v. Methot's cap hit is higher than Foligno's was, so they actually added salary.

Riprock wrote:He was 5th among their defenceman in TOI and 4th in shifts/game.

And I have read enough Columbus fans opinions that he was not integral to their team.

He was expendable because he was overpaid and they had younger, cheaper guys who were pushing him down the chart.

So they had younger, cheaper guys to replace him and we had older, more expensive guy to be replaced.

NEELY wrote:Just to clarify as well, I'm not saying Methot is a legit, top 4 D man in the making and the Sens walked off with some sort of steal, I am saying he was top 4 in most of his time in Columbus and does have the ability to play top mins as it stands.

He could be a total bust next year and at best be a #6 guy... from what I have seen though he could very well thrive having a partner like Karlsson where he knows exactly what is expected of him as opposed to Columbus where no one has any idea what the team wants from them.

And let's not forget that we also have Cowen who is aiming for being a top-pairing guy and, therefore, Karlsson's partner. How that's going to work out, I don't know. Maybe their plan is to play Cowen on the 2nd pairing, or maybe they want to see how long he can last at the top, with Methot there as insurance. Don't know but one way or the other we have the left side covered in the top-four.

stempniaksen wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Riprock wrote:He was 5th among their defenceman in TOI and 4th in shifts/game.

And I have read enough Columbus fans opinions that he was not integral to their team.

He was expendable because he was overpaid and they had younger, cheaper guys who were pushing him down the chart.

Oh yah, because Wiznewski isn't the big mistake they had on that blueline right? If they could give up Wiznewski or Methot, who do you think they would have gotten rid of?

I don't care what their fans say, I watched enough Columbus games over the past few years to know exactly where Methot stands in terms of their defence at the time. He was a top 4 guy, simple as that. For a defensive D man on an awful team, he was pretty good.

He was injured most of last season anyways so how anyone can jump to the conclusion that he wasn't a top 4 guy there is unreal. Where was he before they brought in Johnson and Wiznewski? Oh yah, the top 4.

Maybe instead of reading what other people think, watch some games yourself. I'm not ripping on you, I'm ripping on anyone that forms their own personal opinion based on someone elses personal opinion. Watch the frigging game(s).

Wiznewski is a much, much better player then Marc Methot. I watched a ton of Columbus games last year (mostly when the Brassard rumours were popping up and then when Johnson was traded there) and while Wiz takes big risks, he can be downright electric when he's on.

And saying that Methot is a top-four defenceman on the worse team in the league doesn't make me feel any better about him as a player and our hopes for a playoff spot with him in the top-four. I'll even go out on a limb here and say that he finishes the year on the bottom pairing behind one of Phillips, Lundin or Boro (imo behind at least 2 of those guys). Would be nice if I could be proven wrong on this one though.

Wiznewski is a better player, he isn't 5 years at 2.5 more a season better. That's my point. If you think Ottawa came to them and said "we want Wiz or Methot for Folgino" who do you think they would have moved? Pretty easy answer.

As for a top 4 on the worst team in the league, that doesn't mean a thing. They might be the worst team in the league but they didn't have the worst defense in the league. They had absolutely no goaltending and no forward support in terms of goal scoring or defensive awareness. Hitchcock left a long time ago.

Rick Nash was a top 3 forward on the worst team in the NHL... what does that make him? Same argument, different player.

SpezDispenser wrote:My mistake 18.25.

Well that's certainly better than the QO and he was right in rejecting it.

But holy hell, that's over $6M/year when he has had consecutive bad seasons (yes, injuries played into that); I now always compare D-men contracts to Karlsson and this one feels like a bit of an overpayment given past results.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:My mistake 18.25.

Well that's certainly better than the QO and he was right in rejecting it.

But holy hell, that's over $6M/year when he has had consecutive bad seasons (yes, injuries played into that); I now always compare D-men contracts to Karlsson and this one feels like a bit of an overpayment given past results.

The QO only needed to be 100% of his last salary, so they did that just to keep his rights in check.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:My mistake 18.25.

Well that's certainly better than the QO and he was right in rejecting it.

But holy hell, that's over $6M/year when he has had consecutive bad seasons (yes, injuries played into that); I now always compare D-men contracts to Karlsson and this one feels like a bit of an overpayment given past results.

You're being a little hard on him IMO. He had ridiculous 76 and 73 point seasons and before that a 56 point season. He's had injury issues the last two years, but he's easy to invest that money into when healthy. I think that's fair market value personally. If I was Washington, I would have tried for a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal, but I guess they couldn't persuade him.

While I have nothing against Methot, nor am I certain what role he will play in Ottawa, fact is he was a bottom pairing d-man, and almost a 7th d-man in Columbus. So you are basically saying that a crap team like Columbus has a really good defence because Methot (a supposed top pairing d-man in Ottawa) was pished out of the line-up.

So I stand by the many opinions of Columbus fans that they are relieved to have gotten rid of an overpaid, bottom pairing at best d-man.

Doesn't mean he won't be more in Ottawa, but it's still very much the case that is what he was in Columbus.