Trade Bonanza 2012! Speculation, Rumours, the Works!

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Riprock wrote:Huh... any chance then that instead of selling, Carolina instead trades Staal and does a retool like Ottawa?

A guy like Stal might get a few decent pieces back for Carolina, plus some picks...

Staal won't be going anywhere, this actually looks quite a bit like the Sens rebuild, imo.

Staal will stick around to lead a young group of forwards (Spezza).
Gleason is brought back to be a veteran shutdown defenceman (Phillips).
Guys like Ruutu, Allen, Spacek will be moved at the deadline (Fisher, Kelly).

The difference is that Ottawa had pieces rebound/step up this season to make them competitive, while there aren't as many in options in Carolina (although it looked bleak for the Sens at this time last year too.

Still think they'll keep Ruutu - last minute signing of 4.2 X 5 is my guess. Jokinen could be the big ticket out of there, but I'd keep him too. I maintain that that team is a lot better than they look.

There's no way he gets a $4M+ contract. If he does, there's no way he gets more than 2 years.

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Riprock wrote:Huh... any chance then that instead of selling, Carolina instead trades Staal and does a retool like Ottawa?

A guy like Stal might get a few decent pieces back for Carolina, plus some picks...

Staal won't be going anywhere, this actually looks quite a bit like the Sens rebuild, imo.

Staal will stick around to lead a young group of forwards (Spezza).
Gleason is brought back to be a veteran shutdown defenceman (Phillips).
Guys like Ruutu, Allen, Spacek will be moved at the deadline (Fisher, Kelly).

The difference is that Ottawa had pieces rebound/step up this season to make them competitive, while there aren't as many in options in Carolina (although it looked bleak for the Sens at this time last year too.

Still think they'll keep Ruutu - last minute signing of 4.2 X 5 is my guess. Jokinen could be the big ticket out of there, but I'd keep him too. I maintain that that team is a lot better than they look.

There's no way he gets a $4M+ contract. If he does, there's no way he gets more than 2 years.

Wanna bet?

SpezDispenser wrote:

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Riprock wrote:Huh... any chance then that instead of selling, Carolina instead trades Staal and does a retool like Ottawa?

A guy like Stal might get a few decent pieces back for Carolina, plus some picks...

Staal won't be going anywhere, this actually looks quite a bit like the Sens rebuild, imo.

Staal will stick around to lead a young group of forwards (Spezza).
Gleason is brought back to be a veteran shutdown defenceman (Phillips).
Guys like Ruutu, Allen, Spacek will be moved at the deadline (Fisher, Kelly).

The difference is that Ottawa had pieces rebound/step up this season to make them competitive, while there aren't as many in options in Carolina (although it looked bleak for the Sens at this time last year too.

Still think they'll keep Ruutu - last minute signing of 4.2 X 5 is my guess. Jokinen could be the big ticket out of there, but I'd keep him too. I maintain that that team is a lot better than they look.

There's no way he gets a $4M+ contract. If he does, there's no way he gets more than 2 years.

Wanna bet?

Sure If he re-signs for $4M+ and over 2 years, you win. Any other scenario, I win.

Name the stakes.

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Riprock wrote:Huh... any chance then that instead of selling, Carolina instead trades Staal and does a retool like Ottawa?

A guy like Stal might get a few decent pieces back for Carolina, plus some picks...

Staal won't be going anywhere, this actually looks quite a bit like the Sens rebuild, imo.

Staal will stick around to lead a young group of forwards (Spezza).
Gleason is brought back to be a veteran shutdown defenceman (Phillips).
Guys like Ruutu, Allen, Spacek will be moved at the deadline (Fisher, Kelly).

The difference is that Ottawa had pieces rebound/step up this season to make them competitive, while there aren't as many in options in Carolina (although it looked bleak for the Sens at this time last year too).

Still think they'll keep Ruutu - last minute signing of 4.2 X 5 is my guess. Jokinen could be the big ticket out of there, but I'd keep him too. I maintain that that team is a lot better than they look.

They have terrible offensive depth and arguably no top pairing defenceman. They have some nice pieces, but they need a lot of help in a lot of areas. Maybe some of their prospects fills those gaps, but I think they need to make some major changes regardless.

Fair enough, I'd say Pitkanen is a quasi top pairing guy, but they have a real dearth of that. McBain might be one day, but he isn't yet. Pitkanen/Gleason is good if you have powerful 2nd pairing guys - which isn't Allen/Spacek. They still have some work do, don't get me wrong, but I think they have a decent core of guys to try to re-tool around.

I guess we just have a different definition of "core". I think they could rebuild around Staal, Skinner and Ward and be fine, but that pieces like Ruutu, Jokinen, Pitkanen, ect could all be used to help them in 2+ years.

stempniaksen wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Riprock wrote:Huh... any chance then that instead of selling, Carolina instead trades Staal and does a retool like Ottawa?

A guy like Stal might get a few decent pieces back for Carolina, plus some picks...

Staal won't be going anywhere, this actually looks quite a bit like the Sens rebuild, imo.

Staal will stick around to lead a young group of forwards (Spezza).
Gleason is brought back to be a veteran shutdown defenceman (Phillips).
Guys like Ruutu, Allen, Spacek will be moved at the deadline (Fisher, Kelly).

The difference is that Ottawa had pieces rebound/step up this season to make them competitive, while there aren't as many in options in Carolina (although it looked bleak for the Sens at this time last year too).

Still think they'll keep Ruutu - last minute signing of 4.2 X 5 is my guess. Jokinen could be the big ticket out of there, but I'd keep him too. I maintain that that team is a lot better than they look.

They have terrible offensive depth and arguably no top pairing defenceman. They have some nice pieces, but they need a lot of help in a lot of areas. Maybe some of their prospects fills those gaps, but I think they need to make some major changes regardless.

Fair enough, I'd say Pitkanen is a quasi top pairing guy, but they have a real dearth of that. McBain might be one day, but he isn't yet. Pitkanen/Gleason is good if you have powerful 2nd pairing guys - which isn't Allen/Spacek. They still have some work do, don't get me wrong, but I think they have a decent core of guys to try to re-tool around.

I guess we just have a different definition of "core". I think they could rebuild around Staal, Skinner and Ward and be fine, but that pieces like Ruutu, Jokinen, Pitkanen, ect could all be used to help them in 2+ years.

I think we have the same idea of what we want out of a 'core' unit of players - and I agree to an extent, I'd jettison everyone there not named Staal, Skinner, Ward, McBain, but Pitkanen is only 28 - relatively young - and has all the talent in the world to continue to make the Canes better. It's more about his health. If I were Rutherford, I'd take offers, but it would have to be amazing for me to let him go.

The problem the Canes have is that after you get past those talented players, the well is pretty damn dry there. They need to trade some guys for picks and hope to heck their scouting staff is on the ball come Draft Day.

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Riprock wrote:Huh... any chance then that instead of selling, Carolina instead trades Staal and does a retool like Ottawa?

A guy like Stal might get a few decent pieces back for Carolina, plus some picks...

Staal won't be going anywhere, this actually looks quite a bit like the Sens rebuild, imo.

Staal will stick around to lead a young group of forwards (Spezza).
Gleason is brought back to be a veteran shutdown defenceman (Phillips).
Guys like Ruutu, Allen, Spacek will be moved at the deadline (Fisher, Kelly).

The difference is that Ottawa had pieces rebound/step up this season to make them competitive, while there aren't as many in options in Carolina (although it looked bleak for the Sens at this time last year too.

Still think they'll keep Ruutu - last minute signing of 4.2 X 5 is my guess. Jokinen could be the big ticket out of there, but I'd keep him too. I maintain that that team is a lot better than they look.

There's no way he gets a $4M+ contract. If he does, there's no way he gets more than 2 years.

Wanna bet?

Sure If he re-signs for $4M+ and over 2 years, you win. Any other scenario, I win.

Name the stakes.

I'm all ears. What kind of stakes are we talking about here? I'm already gonna owe Neely another 24...so keep that in mind please.

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Riprock wrote:Huh... any chance then that instead of selling, Carolina instead trades Staal and does a retool like Ottawa?

A guy like Stal might get a few decent pieces back for Carolina, plus some picks...

Staal won't be going anywhere, this actually looks quite a bit like the Sens rebuild, imo.

Staal will stick around to lead a young group of forwards (Spezza).
Gleason is brought back to be a veteran shutdown defenceman (Phillips).
Guys like Ruutu, Allen, Spacek will be moved at the deadline (Fisher, Kelly).

The difference is that Ottawa had pieces rebound/step up this season to make them competitive, while there aren't as many in options in Carolina (although it looked bleak for the Sens at this time last year too).

Still think they'll keep Ruutu - last minute signing of 4.2 X 5 is my guess. Jokinen could be the big ticket out of there, but I'd keep him too. I maintain that that team is a lot better than they look.

They have terrible offensive depth and arguably no top pairing defenceman. They have some nice pieces, but they need a lot of help in a lot of areas. Maybe some of their prospects fills those gaps, but I think they need to make some major changes regardless.

Fair enough, I'd say Pitkanen is a quasi top pairing guy, but they have a real dearth of that. McBain might be one day, but he isn't yet. Pitkanen/Gleason is good if you have powerful 2nd pairing guys - which isn't Allen/Spacek. They still have some work do, don't get me wrong, but I think they have a decent core of guys to try to re-tool around.

I guess we just have a different definition of "core". I think they could rebuild around Staal, Skinner and Ward and be fine, but that pieces like Ruutu, Jokinen, Pitkanen, ect could all be used to help them in 2+ years.

I think we have the same idea of what we want out of a 'core' unit of players - and I agree to an extent, I'd jettison everyone there not named Staal, Skinner, Ward, McBain, but Pitkanen is only 28 - relatively young - and has all the talent in the world to continue to make the Canes better. It's more about his health. If I were Rutherford, I'd take offers, but it would have to be amazing for me to let him go.

The problem the Canes have is that after you get past those talented players, the well is pretty damn dry there. They need to trade some guys for picks and hope to heck their scouting staff is on the ball come Draft Day.

Completely agree with you. That's why I think Tuomo Ruutu is gonna be the first guy headed out of town, because he should bring back a nice package of draft picks that will help them down the road. They really need to open up the wallet a bit though this summer and sign some legitimate NHL players, no more failed Samsonov/Ponikarovsky signings.

Has that Bonanza fella been traded yet?

At least they have Ryan Murphy. Carolina I mean. He's gonna be good.
Another early 1st this year. Not too bad, Staal and Ward are still young.
Compare that to Calgary.

stempniaksen wrote:
Completely agree with you. That's why I think Tuomo Ruutu is gonna be the first guy headed out of town, because he should bring back a nice package of draft picks that will help them down the road. They really need to open up the wallet a bit though this summer and sign some legitimate NHL players, no more failed Samsonov/Ponikarovsky signings.

I was about to put Ruutu's name in there...I just can't shake the feeling they'll try to re-sign him for some reason.

SpezDispenser wrote:

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Riprock wrote:Huh... any chance then that instead of selling, Carolina instead trades Staal and does a retool like Ottawa?

A guy like Stal might get a few decent pieces back for Carolina, plus some picks...

Staal won't be going anywhere, this actually looks quite a bit like the Sens rebuild, imo.

Staal will stick around to lead a young group of forwards (Spezza).
Gleason is brought back to be a veteran shutdown defenceman (Phillips).
Guys like Ruutu, Allen, Spacek will be moved at the deadline (Fisher, Kelly).

The difference is that Ottawa had pieces rebound/step up this season to make them competitive, while there aren't as many in options in Carolina (although it looked bleak for the Sens at this time last year too.

Still think they'll keep Ruutu - last minute signing of 4.2 X 5 is my guess. Jokinen could be the big ticket out of there, but I'd keep him too. I maintain that that team is a lot better than they look.

There's no way he gets a $4M+ contract. If he does, there's no way he gets more than 2 years.

Wanna bet?

Sure If he re-signs for $4M+ and over 2 years, you win. Any other scenario, I win.

Name the stakes.

I'm all ears. What kind of stakes are we talking about here? I'm already gonna owe Neely another 24...so keep that in mind please.

Loser has to proclaim his undying love and support for the mighty Maple Leafs of Toronto in his sig for a week.

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

spader wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Riprock wrote:Huh... any chance then that instead of selling, Carolina instead trades Staal and does a retool like Ottawa?

A guy like Stal might get a few decent pieces back for Carolina, plus some picks...

Staal won't be going anywhere, this actually looks quite a bit like the Sens rebuild, imo.

Staal will stick around to lead a young group of forwards (Spezza).
Gleason is brought back to be a veteran shutdown defenceman (Phillips).
Guys like Ruutu, Allen, Spacek will be moved at the deadline (Fisher, Kelly).

The difference is that Ottawa had pieces rebound/step up this season to make them competitive, while there aren't as many in options in Carolina (although it looked bleak for the Sens at this time last year too.

Still think they'll keep Ruutu - last minute signing of 4.2 X 5 is my guess. Jokinen could be the big ticket out of there, but I'd keep him too. I maintain that that team is a lot better than they look.

There's no way he gets a $4M+ contract. If he does, there's no way he gets more than 2 years.

Wanna bet?

Sure If he re-signs for $4M+ and over 2 years, you win. Any other scenario, I win.

Name the stakes.

I'm all ears. What kind of stakes are we talking about here? I'm already gonna owe Neely another 24...so keep that in mind please.

Loser has to proclaim his undying love and support for the mighty Maple Leafs of Toronto in his sig for a week .

Ugg....fine, I'm in.

I feel pretty good because I don't think I'll lose.

Any trades?

Free Tibet. Plus taxes of course.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Free Tibet. Plus taxes of course.

Let's see, 13% HST applied on "free" ...

wprager wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Free Tibet. Plus taxes of course.

Let's see, 13% HST applied on "free" ...

You know as well as I do that the tax is applied to the true value of Tibet and not on "free"

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

wprager wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Free Tibet. Plus taxes of course.

Let's see, 13% HST applied on "free" ...

You know as well as I do that the tax is applied to the true value of Tibet and not on "free"

Ah, yes, HST is applied *before* the discounts.

True story: I once had a bunch of pop cans/bottles to return so I used the machines they had in the Super-C store (this is back in Quebec, where they charge 5 cents deposit on all cans and plastic bottles). I put in all the cans/bottles, got my money and the transaction slip. Looked at the details, and noticed that they charged me GST on the deposit. So, for 20 cans I paid a deposit of $1.00, but when I returned them, I got back only $0.95, and the Feds collected a nickel.

The whole GST was such a huge fiasco. It cost businesses a lot of money to administer, you think the cap rules are difficult? Well, you get charged GST if you buy salted nuts, but not if you buy unsalted ones (the idea here is that salted nuts are a snack, while unsalted ones are ingredients, so not a finished good). Buy 1-5 danishes and pay the GST, or by a 6th one and no GST (it's like getting 30% off on the 6th one). The rules about GST were complicated and not implemented the same everywhere. In Quebec, for example, they charge the GST on top of the QST, while in Ontario (and probably everywhere else) it was charged only on the "goods and services" part. So in Ontario the combined tax was 15% (this is back when the rates were 8% and 7%) but in Quebec it was 15.56%. I wonder who got the extra 0.56%?

I still don't understand if the deposit was considered a "good" or a "service".