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Game Day - Buffalo @ Ottawa, 7:00PM, Saturday, Movember 5, 2011

+15
rooneypoo
SeawaySensFan
NEELY
LeCaptain
PTFlea
wprager
Hoags
Ev
SensHulk
shabbs
The Silfer Server
sandysensfan
garblar
Flo The Action
Riprock
19 posters

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tim1_2


Franchise Player
Franchise Player

Hoags wrote:
Build from within, that's how we did it over a decade ago to get ourselves out of the basement and that's how we should do it again.

That's partially true, but you also need to make good deals/signings as well. A key component (as much as I hate to say it) to our Finals team was Heatley. We got him through trade. You need to build from within, yes, but you also need to make smart FA signings and trades. There's no one single path to being a champ, and there's nothing wrong with shelling out big bucks to a free agent if it's the right guy. And we've all seen what a legit sniper can do alongside Spezza.

Da lil Guy


Rookie
Rookie

But we got Heatley in a one-for-one trade for Hossa - a guy we developed.

Doesn't diminish the point, but you still need to develop players if you want to be able to trade for the guys you need.

Problem with free agency is the need to overpay (...and the fact that Ottawa may not be a top destination for free agents).

tim1_2


Franchise Player
Franchise Player

Ya, you guys are right. Why try to sign one of the best snipers in the league. Let's just wait.

Gag

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
All-Star
All-Star

tim1_2 wrote:Ya, you guys are right. Why try to sign one of the best snipers in the league. Let's just wait.

Gag

Parise would be the ideal candidate to replace Alfie. No question, open up the vault for him if he becomes a UFA on July 1. Not going to pretend that I know that he would or wouldn't sign here, but I'd fully expect us to make every overture possible before walking away.

If we've learned anything over the past few years, Spezza cannot be depended on to lead the charge game in and game out & to be the only source of offence. He needs another big gun on the roster.

Hoags

Hoags
All-Star
All-Star

tim1_2 wrote:Ya, you guys are right. Why try to sign one of the best snipers in the league. Let's just wait.

Gag

I have no problem with trying, just saying chances are slim to none he actually signs. I mean really, who the Diddle wants to play in Ottawa, if we make the ECF this season, that might change.

I got no problem with trades or signings, I'm just saying throwing the biggest, front-loaded, cap evading contracts Melnyk can afford is silly.

SensHulk

SensHulk
All-Star
All-Star

Agreed. after next season, we open up Alfie and Gonchar's cap hits. We can afford Parise and certainly get his attention with a heavy contract offer. Whether he takes it or not, who knows?

tim1_2

tim1_2
Franchise Player
Franchise Player

Hoags wrote:
tim1_2 wrote:Ya, you guys are right. Why try to sign one of the best snipers in the league. Let's just wait.

Gag

I mean really, who the Diddle wants to play in Ottawa

Who wants to play in NJ? Each player has their own tastes and preferences...players generally speak positively about this city.

Parise is American though, so he may want to stick state-side. I don't know what he thinks about our city, but ultimately it's the $$$ that will do the talking.

We have $28M of cap room next year. There's 7 teams with more cap space: Colorado, Phoenix, St Louis, Nashville, NYI, Winnipeg, and Dallas. Out of those 7 teams, who is going to open up their wallets? MAYBE Winnipeg? That's it.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder

tim1_2 wrote:Ya, you guys are right. Why try to sign one of the best snipers in the league. Let's just wait.

Gag

I said "if we don't get Parise, we shouldn't sign anyone". We'd have to be mentally challenged not to take a massive run at him if he hits the market. And we have a huge one up on other teams - tons of cap space. Oh, and let's not forget the player friendly coach.

I read somewhere that Alfredsson, Karlsson and co. were in Detroit to play the Wings and Kronwall asked them how much they love MacLean, knowing full well the answer. That'll make the rounds among teams that we have a real coach now and that can be a massive selling point.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder

Hoags wrote:
I have no problem with trying, just saying chances are slim to none he actually signs. I mean really, who the Diddle wants to play in Ottawa, if we make the ECF this season, that might change.

I got no problem with trades or signings, I'm just saying throwing the biggest, front-loaded, cap evading contracts Melnyk can afford is silly.

You know how fast things change in this league now. Ottawa might finish 12th this year and 12th next year, but the smart players see the teams that are building a strong foundation and want to be a big part of that. I think Parise and his agent would look at Ottawa - although I agree, he'll never make it to UFA (IMO).

Hoags

Hoags
All-Star
All-Star

SpezDispenser wrote:
You know how fast things change in this league now. Ottawa might finish 12th this year and 12th next year, but the smart players see the teams that are building a strong foundation and want to be a big part of that. I think Parise and his agent would look at Ottawa - although I agree, he'll never make it to UFA (IMO).

I seriously doubt Ottawa would be on anyone's list until we go deep in the post season. No one cares about our prospect pool, they look at result.

The only attraction with Ottawa would be with really young players (like Turris) or college players who historically get a very good chance to establish themselves(if they haven't already and they're coached by a guy like Tippett or Hitchcock).

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder

Hoags wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
You know how fast things change in this league now. Ottawa might finish 12th this year and 12th next year, but the smart players see the teams that are building a strong foundation and want to be a big part of that. I think Parise and his agent would look at Ottawa - although I agree, he'll never make it to UFA (IMO).

I seriously doubt Ottawa would be on anyone's list until we go deep in the post season. No one cares about our prospect pool, they look at result.

The only attraction with Ottawa would be with really young players (like Turris) or college players who historically get a very good chance to establish themselves(if they haven't already and they're coached by a guy like Tippett or Hitchcock).

I don't buy that personally. Ottawa has a very bright future and a big name player could come in here and be almost the top dog and also have a real chance to forge part of Ottawa's identity. The fringe players may not be interested, the franchise players might look and think about it. Especially with MacLean gaining credence as a player's coach.

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran

spader wrote:
sandysensfan wrote:
wprager wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
La Femme wrote:Get Rundblad back, Karlsson is not enough.

Yes please.

Do you really think it would have made a difference last night? They were lacking finish around the net. How did Daugavins *not* put that rebound off the boards in? Or Greening on a beautiful setup from behind by Spezza? I hate doing this, but looking at the Event Summary, the Sabres had 7 missed shots, while the Sens had 18. So far we have one win and one loser point in 5 division match-ups. Ugh-ly. One point up on 9th place Tampa, who have 2 games in hand. And the Devils are 2 points back with 3 games in hand.

Tampa plays Florida tonight. Best-case scenario Florida wins in regulation and we slip to 8th, but if Tampa gets even a loser point we are out of that playoff spot. If Tampa loses in regulation, then one of New Jersey or Carolina will get 2 points on Tuesday. Best we can hope for in that game is that the Devils win in a shootout (we would still be ahead with 4 ROW to their 3).

I don't see how we can hang on to that playoff position before our next game. And three games ago we were in 4th.

I guess it's true what they say -- it's still early.

But this team is re-building. Why are you so upset that they may fall out of a playoff position.

If someone told me at the start of the season that his young team -- (with 6 or 7 rookies in the lineup most nights, new coaching staff, new playing system) would be at .500 and in a playoff position after 15 games I would not have believed them.

Let's get realistic. This team is not making the playoffs... and it is best for the re-build that they don't.
Can you explain that? Why would it be good for the rebuild for them to miss the playoffs?

They would get a higher draft pick... The Sens need another potential star forward drafted. There are only a few in June's draft .. there are a lot of good young D in this next draft. Let's face it.. IF the Sens make the playoffs... do you really expect them to get very far? That would also mean a lower pick.. Also if they are out of the playoff picture.. there is a possibility that Murray may unload more players at the deadline for more picks (not sure who at this point, if they could/would move any)-- a good thing for this next draft which is supposed to be deep and skilled.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder

sandysensfan wrote:They would get a higher draft pick... The Sens need another potential star forward drafted. There are only a few in June's draft .. there are a lot of good young D in this next draft. Let's face it.. IF the Sens make the playoffs... do you really expect them to get very far? That would also mean a lower pick.. Also if they are out of the playoff picture.. there is a possibility that Murray may unload more players at the deadline for more picks (not sure who at this point, if they could/would move any)-- a good thing for this next draft which is supposed to be deep and skilled.

It's better for them to win as a team than it is for them to tank as a team. Too many young guys who need to learn from their mistakes and apply the lessons as the year goes on. If we end up at the bottom of the NHL heap again, I think it's only natural to re-assess some of the players we have on the team for not learning and not developing.

Yes, it would bring a star player, but with the scouting staff we have, I think we need to leave our trust in them. Shoot for the playoffs - if they miss, so be it, but if the suck the whole year, some guys simply won't have jobs next year IMO.

Besides, people will bring up crap organizations like Columbus or Florida and ask what they've won with their high picks. Nothing because they continuously suck year after year and they don't know how to develop their prospects at the AHL level or the NHL level - and I personally want no part of that.

SeawaySensFan

SeawaySensFan
Franchise Player
Franchise Player

I hope we miss the next 5 playoffs so we can draft someone awesome at every position, maybe a goalie in year 6 because Lehner will need a successor by then.

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran

SpezDispenser wrote:
NEELY wrote:The dumbest logic anyone could come up with is "winning isn't good for the team/rebuild/contender/sexual preadtors/nuns/whatever else.

The playoffs are the goal for any team and winning makes any team better in the long run.
I don't love that logic at all. This team should be competing every night.

To further that point, we can all look at it like this:

LOCKS next year (barring trades or poor play):

1.Spezza
2.Greening
3.Michalek
4.Alfredsson
5.Z.Smith
6.Condra
7.Neil
8.Daugavins (believe it!)

Probables:

9.Foligno
10.Da Costa
11.Regin

So...by that count, unless there are some trades, there is 1 spot open to be had - Z-Bad and Silfverberg I assume will be battling for it, but if anyone takes a night off, they can expect to be replaced quickly. Here's the depth coming up, better play to win every night.

I really expect both Silfverberg & Zibanejad to make the Sens next season. So they need to make room for those 2. Who do they move? or who don't they re-sign?
We know that Kuba is gone...so that will leave 7 D. I assume Auld is gone and Lehner will be in Ottawa to push Anderson.. Also depending on where the Sens draft and who they draft... that young player could be in the lineup as well (if it is a high pick).

Look to clear things up -- I cheer for this team to win every night. I would be more than estatic to see them make the playoffs... but can they compete with the elite teams?
After the Ranger game on Wed.. they play a pretty hard 6 games on the road. If they can win 3 of those.. ie Leafs, Sabres, Flames... and be .500 on that trip... that would be amazing... If Alfie is back in the lineup they have a chance to do that... But agreed.. the key is Anderson... He has been inconsistent so far this year.

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player

Our best player was drafted in the middle of the first round. Draft pick schmaft pick.

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran

wprager wrote:
sandysensfan wrote:
wprager wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
La Femme wrote:Get Rundblad back, Karlsson is not enough.

Yes please.

Do you really think it would have made a difference last night? They were lacking finish around the net. How did Daugavins *not* put that rebound off the boards in? Or Greening on a beautiful setup from behind by Spezza? I hate doing this, but looking at the Event Summary, the Sabres had 7 missed shots, while the Sens had 18. So far we have one win and one loser point in 5 division match-ups. Ugh-ly. One point up on 9th place Tampa, who have 2 games in hand. And the Devils are 2 points back with 3 games in hand.

Tampa plays Florida tonight. Best-case scenario Florida wins in regulation and we slip to 8th, but if Tampa gets even a loser point we are out of that playoff spot. If Tampa loses in regulation, then one of New Jersey or Carolina will get 2 points on Tuesday. Best we can hope for in that game is that the Devils win in a shootout (we would still be ahead with 4 ROW to their 3).

I don't see how we can hang on to that playoff position before our next game. And three games ago we were in 4th.

I guess it's true what they say -- it's still early.

But this team is re-building. Why are you so upset that they may fall out of a playoff position.

If someone told me at the start of the season that his young team -- (with 6 or 7 rookies in the lineup most nights, new coaching staff, new playing system) would be at .500 and in a playoff position after 15 games I would not have believed them.

Let's get realistic. This team is not making the playoffs... and it is best for the re-build that they don't.

I've been saying all along that this team *can* make the playoffs. So allow me to be disappointed. If Anderson had been playing the way we all expected him to play in the off-season we would be leading the Division. If you don't believe me, consider this: if Anderson played better we don't lose that 6-5 game against the Leafs -- just that one game, and we're tied with the Leafs at 17. Then even getting to an OT in one of the remaining losses puts us one point ahead.

Everyone was saying we would not score, and I was one of the few challenging this "fact". Remember, last year, up until Spezza got injured, we were a 2-3 game winning streak out of a playoff spot. And I fully expected a better year from Kuba (no broken leg and a full training camp) and Gonchar (who traditionally is slow to adjust to a new team). I *didn't* expect either Regin or Butler to light it up, although I was hoping for 15-20 goals between the two of them. I must admit I was expecting Filatov to make the team, but I also expected DaCosta and Rundblad to play in Bingo. So I was overly optimistic in some expectation and overly pessimistic in others -- overall, though, I thought (and still think) my expectations were not outrageous. I fully expected Boston to struggle because of the Cup "hangover", and one of Montreal and Buffalo to sputter if Price or Miller were not having a Vezina-candidate season. I expected Toronto to falter when Reimer struggled because of all the expectation and playing load. He has, but they've been scoring a ton of goals (most of the time) to overcome it. I still fully expect them to come back down to Earth. So in that kind of NE Division I don't think it would have been outrageous to expect the Sens to contend for a spot.

Now, on to your comment regarding rookies -- we had 6 in the lineup once, when Lehner started. Zibanejad, Da Costa, Greening, Cowen, Rundblad and, now, Daugavins. Two of those are only in because Regin and Alfredsson are injured. Greening played 24 games last year so he is *barely* a rookie (he's also 25 years old, in fact most of our "rookies" are in their mid-20s. Inexperienced? Somewhat, but not really raw rookies, for the most part.

Without the injuries we'd have 3 rookies in the lineup, a far cry from 6-7.

Rundblad, Cowen, DaCosta, and I still consider Greening as I believe he is eligible for the Calder this year. So four instead of 6 or 7 -- my counting is bad.....But I was also counting -- Condra, Butler, Filatov who have played about only 50 NHL games each -- but I guess are not really considered rookies. Quite a bit of inexperience in the lineup... nonetheless.

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran

Peggy wrote:Yes he could play in Bingo after his SEL season is done.

Stupid question though, IF he plays in Bingo after his SEL season... does that burn a year of his ELC -- or does that only apply if he plays in the NHL?

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