Game Day - Minnesota @ Ottawa, 7:30PM, Tuesday, October 11, 2011

TheAvatar wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Let's not blow this out of proportion. It was a light chorus of boos, nothing that bad.

If there is a perceived lack of effort/caring, then guys will be booed, and those are the emotions some fans have right now towards Gonchar and Kuba. As veterans, they need to play better and more consistently.

You're normally pretty sensible but I gotta tell you, I completely disagree with you on this issue. As as been said, it's one thing to boo a player after a bad or a lazy play but to boo him during the team introduction; the first home game of the season is STUPID and worthy of Cussing hab fans.

That's the first time I've ever been called sensible. Thank you!

These guys had both already played two games in the regular season, plus preseason, and there's been nothing to show that they are turning it around (more Gonchar than Kuba...Kuba hasn't been as bad). Also, the booing really wasn't that harsh...it's being overblown in my opinion.

That said, fans have every right to boo guys that aren't earning their substantial paycheques. If Gonchar showed signs in the preseason or the first two regular season games of turning things around, he would not have been booed.

I'm sure the booing of Gonchar was mostly due to last season. I have my doubts that the casual fan is really aware of his play the last few games.

I've met people who think Spezza is a useless giveaway machine and should be traded for a bag of pucks. They were STUNNED to learn he's top in faceoffs, had to show them the NHL stats page (he was #11 last year in the NHL).

This may be Canada and the fans may be nuts about hockey but it doesn't mean the fans are necessarily well informed (especially if the Sun is all they read).

I saw loyal fans in Sens' gear buying the new Heritage jersey but they had no idea who Cowen was, never even heard of him.

It's no biggie but I don't think the fine members of this forum are representative of the typical Sens fan in the city.

Hoags wrote:I'm sure the booing of Gonchar was mostly due to last season. I have my doubts that the casual fan is really aware of his play the last few games.

If people pay money to go see a game, they can boo whoever they want. Tickets are expensive, and they want their money's worth. If a guy making $5.5M is perceived to not be trying hard enough, he'll be booed.

Yeah, most of the people in attendance probably don't follow the team as closely as we do, but that doesn't mean they are "moronic" as they were called on this page. They are fans, expressing their opinion. Their opinion was that Gonchar is not earning his paycheque (and, to a lesser extent, Kuba). Both these opinions are shared by pretty much everyone on here, so I don't know why this is "moronic", or "ignorant", or whatever. If I shell out cash to go so a game, you're damned right I'm going to let guys know if I'm unhappy with their play...until they turn it around.

tim1_2 wrote:

Hoags wrote:I'm sure the booing of Gonchar was mostly due to last season. I have my doubts that the casual fan is really aware of his play the last few games.

If people pay money to go see a game, they can boo whoever they want. Tickets are expensive, and they want their money's worth. If a guy making $5.5M is perceived to not be trying hard enough, he'll be booed.

Yeah, most of the people in attendance probably don't follow the team as closely as we do, but that doesn't mean they are "moronic" as they were called on this page. They are fans, expressing their opinion. Their opinion was that Gonchar is not earning his paycheque (and, to a lesser extent, Kuba). Both these opinions are shared by pretty much everyone on here, so I don't know why this is "moronic", or "ignorant", or whatever. If I shell out cash to go so a game, you're damned right I'm going to let guys know if I'm unhappy with their play...until they turn it around.

The "I pay so it's OK" argument is lame, and in many ways it's beside the point.

For example: I pay to get into the event, therefore I should be able to do anything, provided that it is legal, that I want. Hence, I stick my tongue out at, berate, teaze, and humiliate all the moms, grandmas, elderly couples, mentally handicapped, and children under twelve that I see as I walk back and forth from seat to beer stand to bathroom. It's my right. It's legal, and I paid to be here. It's being not illegal, and my seat being paid for, makes it all OK.

Yeah, well, it's also unclassy as all hell, and I'd hope that you or someone else my size has the sense to tell me that's not acceptable behaviour. And that's what we're talking about here. Booing Gonchar at his introduction in the home opener is unclassy, childish, and thoughtless. It's a matter of ethics and mores, not of legality or customer-bought privileges.

I could boo my head off at both the anthems, or heckle the little Timbits kids during the period break, or jeer the kid on the zamboni, too, if that's what I wanted to do, and make the same argument (I paid, and it's not illegal). That still wouldn't make me doing any of those things right or acceptable.

rooneypoo wrote:
The "I pay so it's OK" argument is lame, and in many ways it's beside the point.

For example: I pay to get into the event, therefore I should be able to do anything, provided that it is legal, that I want. Hence, I stick my tongue out at, berate, teaze, and humiliate all the moms, grandmas, elderly couples, mentally handicapped, and children under twelve that I see as I walk back and forth from seat to beer stand to bathroom. It's my right. It's legal, and I paid to be here. It's being not illegal, and my seat being paid for, makes it all OK.

Yeah, well, it's also unclassy as all hell, and I'd hope that you or someone else my size has the sense to tell me that's not acceptable behaviour. And that's what we're talking about here. Booing Gonchar at his introduction in the home opener is unclassy, childish, and thoughtless. It's a matter of ethics and mores, not of legality or customer-bought privileges.

I could boo my head off at both the anthems, or heckle the little Timbits kids during the period break, or jeer the kid on the zamboni, too, if that's what I wanted to do, and make the same argument (I paid, and it's not illegal). That still wouldn't make me doing any of those things right or acceptable.

Your comparison of booing Gonchar to heckling grandmas and kids is lame.

tim1_2 wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
The "I pay so it's OK" argument is lame, and in many ways it's beside the point.

For example: I pay to get into the event, therefore I should be able to do anything, provided that it is legal, that I want. Hence, I stick my tongue out at, berate, teaze, and humiliate all the moms, grandmas, elderly couples, mentally handicapped, and children under twelve that I see as I walk back and forth from seat to beer stand to bathroom. It's my right. It's legal, and I paid to be here. It's being not illegal, and my seat being paid for, makes it all OK.

Yeah, well, it's also unclassy as all hell, and I'd hope that you or someone else my size has the sense to tell me that's not acceptable behaviour. And that's what we're talking about here. Booing Gonchar at his introduction in the home opener is unclassy, childish, and thoughtless. It's a matter of ethics and mores, not of legality or customer-bought privileges.

I could boo my head off at both the anthems, or heckle the little Timbits kids during the period break, or jeer the kid on the zamboni, too, if that's what I wanted to do, and make the same argument (I paid, and it's not illegal). That still wouldn't make me doing any of those things right or acceptable.

Your comparison of booing Gonchar to heckling grandmas and kids is lame.

Oh, my argument about how to behave in public is totally undone by your witty retort!







Oh, no, wait, it's not. At all.

Don't feel bad that you realize now that you were in fact acting like a jerk and a child if you were indeed one of the guys booing Gonchar at his intro. We all make mistakes and do things we're not proud of. But you don't have to keep defending those actions, either, once you acknowledge them as such.

It is lame, and he also equated putting in a RH defenceman for a LH defenceman as playing your backup goalie on the top 6 wing position. Hyperbole much.

Dash wrote:It is lame, and he also equated putting in a RH defenceman for a LH defenceman as playing your backup goalie on the top 6 wing position. Hyperbole much.

I take it you've never played defence, hmm?

I saw someone earlier in one of these thread post an all-star line up of 6 RH'd D who all play the right side of the ice (or was it lefties?). Watch team Canada put together the team, or any other Olympic team, & see how how carefully they attend to these things. At the very least, asking a D to switch sides of the ice is like asking a career centre to play to wing. Think Fisher. It's much harder than it sounds, because you've been training your whole life to play one spot, one role, one section of the ice.

And if you don't see the similarity between

1) my right to boo Gonchar during the ceremony (i.e., not the game) because I paid for my seat and it's not illegal, and

2) my right to boo the anthem, or the Timbits kids, or the kids on the zamboni (i.e., not the game) because I paid for my seat and it's not illegal,

then you're just Cussing clueless.

tim1_2 wrote:

Hoags wrote:I'm sure the booing of Gonchar was mostly due to last season. I have my doubts that the casual fan is really aware of his play the last few games.

If people pay money to go see a game, they can boo whoever they want. Tickets are expensive, and they want their money's worth. If a guy making $5.5M is perceived to not be trying hard enough, he'll be booed.

Yeah, most of the people in attendance probably don't follow the team as closely as we do, but that doesn't mean they are "moronic" as they were called on this page. They are fans, expressing their opinion. Their opinion was that Gonchar is not earning his paycheque (and, to a lesser extent, Kuba). Both these opinions are shared by pretty much everyone on here, so I don't know why this is "moronic", or "ignorant", or whatever. If I shell out cash to go so a game, you're damned right I'm going to let guys know if I'm unhappy with their play...until they turn it around.

I think you're going around in circles here. No one is arguing that the fan doesn't have a right to boo the player. We're arguing about WHEN to boo the players. And yes I stand by the 'moronic' statement, its a damn shame many fans who were pretty audible (even in the broadcast) booed kuba and especially gonchar in the opening freakin' ceremony of the 20th season celebration!

You have to admit that this does not look good on our fans to do that. Pick and choose your spots. That player is still wearing a sens jersey AND its on a night that fans are viciously booing heatley, looks great to also boo our own players too.

rooneypoo wrote:
Oh, my argument about how to behave in public is totally undone by your witty retort!

Oh, no, wait, it's not. At all.

Don't feel bad that you realize now that you were in fact acting like a jerk and a child if you were indeed one of the guys booing Gonchar at his intro. We all make mistakes and do things we're not proud of. But you don't have to keep defending those actions, either, once you acknowledge them as such.

As paying members of the crowd, people are directly supporting their team, and paying the salaries of the players on the ice. If I have a guy making $5.5M on my team, and I perceive him to be dragging his Donkey, I will boo him until he plays better. Doesn't matter when. The crowd inside SBP for the home-opener was AWESOME…one of the best regular season crowds I've been a part of. It was a passionate crowd and cheering/booing based on emotion. Some fans currently view Kuba and Gonchar as part of the problem with the team, and not part of the solution.

If people pay to see a game and want to boo a particular player for a VALID reason, by all means, go ahead.

Don't compare this to trash-talking old ladies or making fun of the mentally challenged. That comparison doesn't make any sense. And old ladies are fair game if they are wearing Leaf jerseys.

Booing Gonchar in the intro is just as bad as people yelling SHOOT on every single PP.

Michallica wrote:
I think you're going around in circles here. No one is arguing that the fan doesn't have a right to boo the player. We're arguing about WHEN to boo the players. And yes I stand by the 'moronic' statement, its a damn shame many fans who were pretty audible (even in the broadcast) booed kuba and especially gonchar in the opening freakin' ceremony of the 20th season celebration!

You have to admit that this does not look good on our fans to do that. Pick and choose your spots. That player is still wearing a sens jersey AND its on a night that fans are viciously booing heatley, looks great to also boo our own players too.

Y'know what? You earn your right to be cheered for. Gonchar and Kuba know that they didn't play well last year, and they know that's why they heard boos. If they care, they will up their play this year, and they will be cheered for it. If they don't care, well, they can mail it in and cash their cheques.

What better time to let players know that they need to up their effort than at the beginning of the season? Why should we cheer for Gonchar? What has he done for the logo on the front of his jersey?

One thing fans in Ottawa are sometimes unfairly criticized for is lacking passion at the games. You give this fan-base something to cheer for, and they will. You give 'em something to boo, and they will. I will never criticize other fans for being passionate.

tim1_2 wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
Oh, my argument about how to behave in public is totally undone by your witty retort!

Oh, no, wait, it's not. At all.

Don't feel bad that you realize now that you were in fact acting like a jerk and a child if you were indeed one of the guys booing Gonchar at his intro. We all make mistakes and do things we're not proud of. But you don't have to keep defending those actions, either, once you acknowledge them as such.

As paying members of the crowd, people are directly supporting their team, and paying the salaries of the players on the ice. If I have a guy making $5.5M on my team, and I perceive him to be dragging his Donkey, I will boo him until he plays better. Doesn't matter when. The crowd inside SBP for the home-opener was AWESOME…one of the best regular season crowds I've been a part of. It was a passionate crowd and cheering/booing based on emotion. Some fans currently view Kuba and Gonchar as part of the problem with the team, and not part of the solution.

If people pay to see a game and want to boo a particular player for a VALID reason, by all means, go ahead.

Don't compare this to trash-talking old ladies or making fun of the mentally challenged. That comparison doesn't make any sense. And old ladies are fair game if they are wearing Leaf jerseys.

Ah, as long as it's on the ICE, which I'm paying to watch, then it's fair? So, again, I can boo

1) the anthem singer, and the anthem songs
2) the Timbits kids
3) the kids on the zamboni, and the zamboni drivers
4) the refs, the linesmen, and the ice shoving crew
5) any one else they bring out during the opening ceremony -- i.e., retired cops, people serving in the military, old hockey players, cancer patients, etc., etc.

Right? That's all OK? After all, I'm paying for my seat, and that money is going into the pockets of the people who put on, participate in, and arrange this spectacle.

Boo the players if you must while they're playing. That's fair. But this was a Cussing ceremony. It was disrespectful and classless, and the failure to acknowledge it as such as absolutely mind boggling.

I would only boo Lyndon Slewidge after 3 winks and a thumbs up.

Big Ev wrote:Booing Gonchar in the intro is just as bad as people yelling SHOOT on every single PP.

It is a bigger faux pas than that, if you ask me. A ceremony is an occasion to celebrate. You respect that. You don't like Gonchar, fine, don't cheer, and boo his Donkey when he's in the game handling the puck. Booing someone in a ceremony / celebration is subversive and disrespectful, and that's because it goes against / disrespects the spirit of the thing itself. It's like clapping & laughing at a funeral, or jeering at a wedding. There is no room for booing in a public ceremony / celebration.

The VAN fans who remained in the building after game 7 of the SCF were at their best at that moment because they stayed to cheer and celebrate the ceremony itself, in its proper spirit. It would have been easy, but also classless and disrespectful to the league & the city, to boo because their team lost after all. But they put aside that crap and bought into the ceremony. That's being respectful. Too bad those other idiots outside the building Dung all over that moment.

I agree: anyone who booed Gonchar or Kuba (or anyone) during the opening ceremonies are pretty damn stupid - I can't think of a better word...

Now later in that game, I gave Gonchar a solid booing for sucking, but during the opening ceremonies of a friggin 20th Anniversary season? Diddle off. Seriously, go away. Hated it - and again, I tried to cheer for them so they wouldn't hear the boos - I was THAT embarrassed.

And dammit it all to heck - a left handed D-man can't play the right side unless they've been trained to do so. It's like saying a C can play wing with no training - wrong, it takes practice and time to know where you need to be. A lefty uses the middle of the ice for breakout passes, but can also skim it off the wall, doing that on the right side requires an awkward pivot and a step. And in the NHL, that step will have you on your arse and the puck turned over. Same applies for righties. It simply doesn't work that way. I'll admit, it took me time to get that right, but it's INTEGRAL to being able to talk about lines properly - knowing who can play where.

rooneypoo wrote:
Ah, as long as it's on the ICE, which I'm paying to watch, then it's fair? So, again, I can boo

1) the anthem singer, and the anthem songs
2) the Timbits kids
3) the kids on the zamboni, and the zamboni drivers
4) the refs, the linesmen, and the ice shoving crew
5) any one else they bring out during the opening ceremony -- i.e., retired cops, people serving in the military, old hockey players, cancer patients, etc., etc.

Right? That's all OK? After all, I'm paying for my seat, and that money is going into the pockets of the people who put on, participate in, and arrange this spectacle.

Boo the players if you must while they're playing. That's fair. But this was a Cussing ceremony. It was disrespectful and classless, and the failure to acknowledge it as such as absolutely mind boggling.

Since you don't seem to get the difference between booing an underperforming player and a member of the military, I'm not going to bother to argue with you.