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I don't know. I thought he was with Toronto (AHL) last year?

Dash wrote:I don't know. I thought he was with Toronto (AHL) last year?

Yeah, I think you're right.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Dash wrote:I don't know. I thought he was with Toronto (AHL) last year?

Yeah, I think you're right.

TOR = the place where once good players go to Dung themselves.

DET = the place where once crappy / fringe players go to be reborn.

Hoags wrote:Gord Miller made some good points on twitter:

Not pointing fingers, but history shows that the vast majority of teams keeping 18 year olds in the lineup are making an enormous mistake.

For every Crosby who thrives, there are many who don't. No one's development was damaged by spending too much time in jr, college or AHL

And the players who get sent back after nine games are in a no-win situation. Do well and it's expected because they were in the NHL.

And for those who struggle, there are constant questions about what's wrong and confidence can be shattered. Good teams don't rush players.

Just to be clear, not saying that NO 18 year olds should play in the NHL. Pointing out that for the vast majority, it was a mistake.

Hmm, ok, but some names would be nice. Off the top of my head, though, here are some guys who stepped into the NHL at 18 and either looked terrific then or look terrific now (or both): Crosby, Doughty, Tavares, Hall, Stamkos, Skinner, Duchene, P. Kane

Who else has there been, recently? Seguin, Fowler, Burmistrov, E. Kane, Hedman, Boedker, Bogosian, Bailey, Sbisa, Gagner, J. Staal, Kessel (probably many more but I'm too lazy to search for them).

Kovalchuk, Marleau, Nash, Lecavalier, Gaborik, Bergeron also played in the NHL at 18 IIRC. Fleury played 21 games and obviously has turned out pretty well, much as SD is not a huge fan of him. But I suppose it must be said that Stefan also played at 18 too.

So there are some people who look like disappointments in that list (Sbisa, Bailey, Boedker, to some extent Bogosian and Gagner, and obviously Stefan) but it's hard to prove that this is because of their having played in the NHL too soon.

Still if I had my druthers ZibNasty would play another year in the SEL. Partially because I think Da Costa, while obviously an inferior prospect, outplayed him for the 2C spot. But we'll have to see after 9 games and I think he's here all year and I think we just have to trust in our management and coaching. We have some good, good hockey people making these decisions.

NEELY wrote:That trend is starting to fade. Rookie of the year last year was the 7th overall pick and was an all-star. Does't have to be Crosby.

I took it as the odds aren't that good (getting better every year like you said) that he'll succeed at 18 and that we won't ruin his development and confidence by throwing him onto a team expected to lose most of its games this year.

Also, can you "ruin" a prospect by sending him back to junior/SEL whatever the case may be ?

Should defer this to Murray and MacLean, but it seems you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by sending an 18 year old back. Most of the time it's done by bad (non-traditional market) teams who need all the help they can get and who need some sort of hype to sell tickets. I remember the "Seen Stamkos ?" campaign Tampa ran.

Stamkos WAS ready though. Barry Melrose was just Dung.

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Dash wrote:I don't know. I thought he was with Toronto (AHL) last year?

Yeah, I think you're right.

TOR = the place where once good players go to Dung themselves.

DET = the place where once crappy / fringe players go to be reborn.

While true, Fabian got pretty lucky here.

Big Ev wrote:Stamkos WAS ready though. Barry Melrose was just Dung.

Even if he wasn't ready (lets just assume for this argument he wasnt) the next year he tore the league apart. Just because an 18 year old doesn't dominate doesn't mean he stops learning and comes out the next year with more confidence and experience.

David Perron is another guy that made it and he was heading for stardom until his concussion. Sam Gagne is a very good NHL player.

Look at guys that didn't get there right away like Turris or Johnsson. Those guys are not living up to being top 3 picks and were not rushed.

It all depends on the individual, simple as that. Zibanejad looks very ready but we'll see what they do after 9 games and how the team is doing itself.

Saw on steffeg's twitter, that Anders Forsberg was involved in an accident. Hit by a car while bicycling, but other than a headache and having to use crutches right now, he is doing well.

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Dash wrote:I don't know. I thought he was with Toronto (AHL) last year?

Yeah, I think you're right.

TOR = the place where once good players go to Dung themselves.

DET = the place where once crappy / fringe players go to be reborn.

While true, Fabian got pretty lucky here.

I don't think anyone who plays themselves on DET's roster merely gets lucky. He must have had a great camp, pure and simple, and now he's got a great 2nd chance to revive his career on a team that is known for having just that same effect on people. Good on him.

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Stamkos WAS ready though. Barry Melrose was just Dung.

Even if he wasn't ready (lets just assume for this argument he wasnt) the next year he tore the league apart. Just because an 18 year old doesn't dominate doesn't mean he stops learning and comes out the next year with more confidence and experience.

David Perron is another guy that made it and he was heading for stardom until his concussion. Sam Gagne is a very good NHL player.

Look at guys that didn't get there right away like Turris or Johnsson. Those guys are not living up to being top 3 picks and were not rushed.

It all depends on the individual, simple as that. Zibanejad looks very ready but we'll see what they do after 9 games and how the team is doing itself.

Turris was definitely rushed. He needed more than 1 year to develop in college. I still think he will have a good career (if he actually signs lol).

Sam Gagner was rushed as well. He has been OK but he could have used another year without a star Winger in kane to dish the puck to.

SpezDispenser, can you go on HFBoards and call out that Nail2012 guy? His posts piss me off, and he has lke 500 in less than one month.

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Stamkos WAS ready though. Barry Melrose was just Dung.

Even if he wasn't ready (lets just assume for this argument he wasnt) the next year he tore the league apart. Just because an 18 year old doesn't dominate doesn't mean he stops learning and comes out the next year with more confidence and experience.

David Perron is another guy that made it and he was heading for stardom until his concussion. Sam Gagne is a very good NHL player.

Look at guys that didn't get there right away like Turris or Johnsson. Those guys are not living up to being top 3 picks and were not rushed.

It all depends on the individual, simple as that. Zibanejad looks very ready but we'll see what they do after 9 games and how the team is doing itself.

Turris was definitely rushed. He needed more than 1 year to develop in college. I still think he will have a good career (if he actually signs lol).

Sam Gagner was rushed as well. He has been OK but he could have used another year without a star Winger in kane to dish the puck to.

Gagne was ready and he is what he is, a 2nd line center. Turris still had time in The AHL, a lot of it, and he hasn't exactly been steller when called up.

Either way, it depends on the player and what the team feels is best for them.

Sean Avery waived by Rangers as per Brooksie.

Claim him, Murray.

Big Ev wrote:Sean Avery waived by Rangers as per Brooksie.

Claim him, Murray.

He can join Redden...

Big Ev wrote:Sean Avery waived by Rangers as per Brooksie.

Claim him, Murray.

A big no thanks to that.

Big Ev wrote:Sean Avery waived by Rangers as per Brooksie.

Claim him, Murray.

Good for the Rangers, they have a solid team, they don't need that trash on their team.

And even though you were kidding - neither do we.

shabbs wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Sean Avery waived by Rangers as per Brooksie.

Claim him, Murray.

He can join Redden...

Brilliant. Redden's goodness in the community will serve as an ideal counterweight to Avery's douchebaggery. Balance.