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rooneypoo wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:We blame Phillips because he has 0 offensive upside. You can't compare him to karlsson. Well I guess you can...

100% fact

Persuasive counter argument.

Again, stopped listening after he brought up the +/-.

Big Ev wrote:
Ok, let's bring the hype machine down a level...

No. I'm confident in saying that, don't believe it if you don't want to.

NEELY wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:3 by 3 is horrible. Only bonus would be if he doesn't have a NTC. This is the guy with the worst +- in the league. Getting older. Didnt allow the sens to get assets for working somewhere else for a few months

Anytime someone uses the +/- stat to prove or disprove a point they are trying to make, I stop listening. Why? It's the dumbest way to actually use a number to show how well or poor a player is playing.

Go jump on the Tom Priesing bandwagon. He's doing great in, ummmm.... where is he?

But, to be fair, Phillips has had a horrible season, and much of that had nothing to do with Karlsson. There was a long, long stretch in there where it seemed that every game he would make a really bone-headed play (passing up the middle) or losing battles against players he should have just brushed off like a fly. The +/- is a result of his bad play, there is no denying it, even if Karlsson had a hand in helping.

He's been playing with Karlsson 1/2 the time and the kid has a ton to learn in his own end. Phillips has been better when paired with Lee to be sure and I would suggest that +/- is a little more on th favorable side.

Phillips has not had his best year and the games where he was really awful was early on in the year. Problem is when he makes a mistake it is magnified because he doesn't provide the offense Karlsson does. People love to see the glory in what Karlsson does but give Phillips no credit for a decade plus of fantastic hockey.

NEELY wrote:He's been playing with Karlsson 1/2 the time and the kid has a ton to learn in his own end. Phillips has been better when paired with Lee to be sure and I would suggest that +/- is a little more on th favorable side.

Phillips has not had his best year and the games where he was really awful was early on in the year. Problem is when he makes a mistake it is magnified because he doesn't provide the offense Karlsson does. People love to see the glory in what Karlsson does but give Phillips no credit for a decade plus of fantastic hockey.

His decade + of service is one thing, his loyalty is another, but Phillips has been a shadow of himself this year - whether that's to do with off-ice issues or the team sucking, it's still worrisome when you're about to negotiate a new deal.

EDIT: And you know where I stand, I'd prefer to re-sign than trade.

Leclaire on waivers

NEELY wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:We blame Phillips because he has 0 offensive upside. You can't compare him to karlsson. Well I guess you can...

100% fact

Persuasive counter argument.

Again, stopped listening after he brought up the +/-.

I just don't think anyone likes hearing the truth about their golden boy at the moment: EK has not been great defensively this year, at all. Phillips is already starting to look more of his old self now that he's away from EK, and it's not like Brian Lee is Anton Volchenkov 2.0 or anything. I've been making fun of butter-soft Lee for years, but he's looking a lot smarter and safer out there right now than EK is, at least in his own end.

To be clear, I'm not blaming EK in this, either. This is part of the growing process with young D, for sure. But to throw Phillips under the bus for all this is just beyond me. You put anyone in the league beside Karlsson, this year, for this team, and he's going to look a whole lot worse than he really is.

People wanted a rebuild, well, this is part of the pain you have to endure.

Big Ev wrote:Leclaire on waivers

Wow, really?

EDIT: there it is -- http://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun.

Interesting, Conklin and McEliwhoitsname are also on waivers.

Big Ev wrote:Leclaire on waivers

is that cause of his conditioning stint?

Big Ev wrote:Leclaire on waivers

Holy Dung, someone grab him please?

Karlsson's not supposed to be a defensive defenceman. He is primarily an offensive, puck-moving, powerplay quarterbacking defenceman.

Phillips IS a defensive, stay at home defenceman. That is why he is/was paired with Karlsson.

Are you saying that 2nd year player is responsible for the poor play of a 13+ year veteran NHL defenceman? Phillips knows his job, Karlsson knows what they expect of him. He obviously has a lot more room for improvement, which is obvious and expected, but Phillips should be better than that.

We should obviously claim Ty Conklin now so Lehner can go back to Bingo. I guess, assuming someone grabs Leclaire, but I don`t even care about that.

Anderson + Conklin is a nice tandem, I like Conklin, he works hard and he`s halfway decent.

NEELY wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:3 by 3 is horrible. Only bonus would be if he doesn't have a NTC. This is the guy with the worst +- in the league. Getting older. Didnt allow the sens to get assets for working somewhere else for a few months

Anytime someone uses the +/- stat to prove or disprove a point they are trying to make, I stop listening. Why? It's the dumbest way to actually use a number to show how well or poor a player is playing.

Go jump on the Tom Priesing bandwagon. He's doing great in, ummmm.... where is he?

good thing I'm not posting speficially for you. I agree +/- isn't an all important stat. it was just part of what I was saying. next time I'll be sure to put +/- at the end of a statement.

I miss Roach

rooneypoo wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:We blame Phillips because he has 0 offensive upside. You can't compare him to karlsson. Well I guess you can...

100% fact

Persuasive counter argument.

i blame the sending receptacle

Dash wrote:Karlsson's not supposed to be a defensive defenceman. He is primarily an offensive, puck-moving, powerplay quarterbacking defenceman.

Phillips IS a defensive, stay at home defenceman. That is why he is/was paired with Karlsson.

Are you saying that 2nd year player is responsible for the poor play of a 13+ year veteran NHL defenceman? Phillips knows his job, Karlsson knows what they expect of him. He obviously has a lot more room for improvement, which is obvious and expected, but Phillips should be better than that.

D play in pairs. If you want Phillips to play D for 2, then I think you're asking too much of any one D. Creating offense is needed and great, but you also have to play responsibly in your own end.

Again, you put anyone beside EK, on this team, this year, and he's going to look like a shadow of his former self. Anyone. Lidstrom, Chara, whomever. The deck is stacked against Phillips, or anyone, if you put him in that situation and expect anything other than what we've seen this year.

That's what I'm saying.

DirtyDave wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:We blame Phillips because he has 0 offensive upside. You can't compare him to karlsson. Well I guess you can...

100% fact

Persuasive counter argument.

i blame the sending receptacle

Precisely.

DirtyDave wrote:

NEELY wrote:

DirtyDave wrote:3 by 3 is horrible. Only bonus would be if he doesn't have a NTC. This is the guy with the worst +- in the league. Getting older. Didnt allow the sens to get assets for working somewhere else for a few months

Anytime someone uses the +/- stat to prove or disprove a point they are trying to make, I stop listening. Why? It's the dumbest way to actually use a number to show how well or poor a player is playing.

Go jump on the Tom Priesing bandwagon. He's doing great in, ummmm.... where is he?

good thing I'm not posting speficially for you. I agree +/- isn't an all important stat. it was just part of what I was saying. next time I'll be sure to put +/- at the end of a statement.

I miss Roach

I can lie to you, if you want. I am, after all, also a former NHLer who co-authored the CBA.

rooneypoo wrote:
D play in pairs. If you want Phillips to play D for 2, then I think you're asking too much of any one D. Creating offense is needed and great, but you also have to play responsibly in your own end.

Again, you put anyone beside EK, on this team, this year, and he's going to look like a shadow of his former self. Anyone. Lidstrom, Chara, whomever. The deck is stacked against Phillips, or anyone, if you put him in that situation and expect anything other than what we've seen this year.

That's what I'm saying.

I agree with the general point, just not that it would affect the greats like Chara, Lidstrom etc. They have a way of making their partners look like all-stars, Phillips isn't there IMO.