Spezza a future Captain for the Sens?

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:Makes me wonder if there is a bit of a rift between Alfie and Phillips. There was an "incident" a couple, maybe three, weeks ago where the two of them had almost diametrically opposed views on a question asked by the media. I don't remember the details but I remember mentioning it here.

While I'm on record saying that I think Spezza could (and eventually would) wear the "C" I still thought they'd give it to Phillips first.

If Spezza is ever made captain, it will be for the wrong reasons -- keeping him happy (given his contract, that's needed on our end) & organizational PR. True heart & soul guys aren't made captains very often any more (think of the Ethan Moreaus, Chris Clarks, Jason Smiths, etc., etc.). Organizations & managements (& not the guys in the locker room) now make these decisions largely with an eye to who puts up points & who has the baby face.

That still doesn't explain why Alfredsson would endorse Spezza as the next Captain. He has no reason to say that and he's not part of management or the PR department. Sure it's possible he never said it and it's just Brennan's musings but if it's true why would Alfie say that?

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:Makes me wonder if there is a bit of a rift between Alfie and Phillips. There was an "incident" a couple, maybe three, weeks ago where the two of them had almost diametrically opposed views on a question asked by the media. I don't remember the details but I remember mentioning it here.

While I'm on record saying that I think Spezza could (and eventually would) wear the "C" I still thought they'd give it to Phillips first.

If Spezza is ever made captain, it will be for the wrong reasons -- keeping him happy (given his contract, that's needed on our end) & organizational PR. True heart & soul guys aren't made captains very often any more (think of the Ethan Moreaus, Chris Clarks, Jason Smiths, etc., etc.). Organizations & managements (& not the guys in the locker room) now make these decisions largely with an eye to who puts up points & who has the baby face.

That still doesn't explain why Alfredsson would endorse Spezza as the next Captain. He has no reason to say that and he's not part of management or the PR department. Sure it's possible he never said it and it's just Brennan's musings but if it's true why would Alfie say that?

I'll think about that one seriously when I hear it from Alfie's lips, & not filtered through CheapShots.

My early answer? Senility, intoxication, or a hatred born of losing 15 of the last 16 games.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Take this with a grain of salt since it's the Sun and it's Don Brennan. There's also no direct quote of Alfredsson saying he'd endorse Spezza as the next Captain. I wonder if it's just Brennan extrapolating from what Alfredsson actually said. Have a read through the article yourself but here is the part that made me post this topic.

Alfredsson believes the Senators missed Spezza both on and off the ice. It is such an endorsement by the captain that he’d also recommend Spezza to take over his ‘C’ when he retires.

http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/2011/02/08/17204101.html

This is what I said months ago.

I think Spezza has shown that he wants to lead at times and that he is in a good position to take that next step with The Alfie giving him a little guidance. If in fact The Alfie feels this way, I think it's very positive for the organization and will further motivate Spezza to become the player he has already made strides in becoming.

A lot of us have wanted him to become the player he is now. Whether or not that changes is up to Spezza, but he's at least giving the effort to play harder away from the puck - and I think a lot of us already knew how good he was around the locker room.

It's cemented now IMO, the next C of the Sens.

SpezDispenser wrote:A lot of us have wanted him to become the player he is now. Whether or not that changes is up to Spezza, but he's at least giving the effort to play harder away from the puck - and I think a lot of us already knew how good he was around the locker room.

It's cemented now IMO, the next C of the Sens.

OMG, settle down!

Spezza has been injured for a good chunk of this season (& last). That's your nostalgia (i.e., missing his production) / wishful-thinking (i.e., 5 games of progress = a sure thing) talking.

Spezza's play away from the puck has been improved this year, his faceoff ability has dramatically improved in the last year, & his willingness to play in all situations is a great sign. These are all great developments, for sure. But his offensive production has been woeful, he still hasn't gotten the rookie entirely out of his game (shift 1 of game 1 of the season = brutal turnover, a trend that just won't stop with this guy), & he's by no means carrying or leading the team (or if he is, he's not carrying / leading us anywhere we want to go).

We can re-consider this validity of this statement after Spezza's gone a decent stretch producing, playing all roles, not creating brutal turnovers, & being healthy. Until then, this is pure hyperbole.

I think we can safely drop the question mark from the subject line.

rooneypoo wrote:
We can re-consider this validity of this statement after Spezza's gone a decent stretch producing, playing all roles, not creating brutal turnovers, & being healthy. Until then, this is pure hyperbole.

Absolutely. He has a chance to continue to play like this for the rest of the year and hopefully for the rest of his career. Seeing Alfie say what he did it validation to a lot of us that Spezza is indeed a huge piece of this team - and that the old school thinking that players can't change - is not always accurate. A few years ago, Spezza was nothing but a talented kid with a lot of immaturity, but this season, he's shown IMO that he's right ready to step into Alfie's skates as C when he leaves.

Sometimes we're all guilty of over-looking things right in front of us. We want Alfie to mentor Landeskog or even RNH, but he should also be mentoring Spezza - grooming him as the next C of the Sens if that's how he feels. Until it actually happens, it's nothing, but it's out there now and I'm very proud of Spezza for maturing into a man and taking charge of things around the room.

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
We can re-consider this validity of this statement after Spezza's gone a decent stretch producing, playing all roles, not creating brutal turnovers, & being healthy. Until then, this is pure hyperbole.

Absolutely. He has a chance to continue to play like this for the rest of the year and hopefully for the rest of his career. Seeing Alfie say what he did it validation to a lot of us that Spezza is indeed a huge piece of this team - and that the old school thinking that players can't change - is not always accurate. A few years ago, Spezza was nothing but a talented kid with a lot of immaturity, but this season, he's shown IMO that he's right ready to step into Alfie's skates as C when he leaves.

Sometimes we're all guilty of over-looking things right in front of us. We want Alfie to mentor Landeskog or even RNH, but he should also be mentoring Spezza - grooming him as the next C of the Sens if that's how he feels. Until it actually happens, it's nothing, but it's out there now and I'm very proud of Spezza for maturing into a man and taking charge of things around the room.

Again, more hyperbole. Let's talk about baby steps in the right direction, instead of saying "he's right ready to step into Alfie's skates."

If Spezza is made captain one day, it will have as much to do with his contract, looks, & point production as any leadership / 2-way play. The old breed of captain -- tough, gritty, team on their back -- is dying out, not because they aren't still needed on their teams but because of organizations selling tickets.

Look down the list of current NHL captains & tell me how Spezza measures up to them, right now, honestly. Spezza is as good a choice for captain right now as Ladd in ATL, Horcoff in EDM, McCabe in FLA, & maybe H. Sedin in VAN (Kesler is the real leader there) & OV in WAS (definitely a PR move). That's about it. The other captains in the league are true leaders & captains (or, they were very recently), guys who do a whole lot of everything to help their teams win. And many of them have that extra appeal in the form of youth, hype, & looks.

When I say Phillips is a captain, I'm thinking of a breed of captain that is, for better or worse, dying out largely because for PR reasons. Rivet, Foote, & Brewer are captains of the kind that I have in mind -- guys who value has (well, had -- none of these guys, excepting maybe Foote, is capable of being that true gritty leader in the Jason Smith mold) nothing to do with their looks or contract or point production. If you ask me, the time is nigh when you just won't see those types of guys made captain. And that's the only way in which it makes sense to say Spezza will be captain before Phillips.

rooneypoo wrote:And many of them have that extra appeal in the form of youth, hype, & looks.

Agreed. Difference being (I think) with Alfie still in the fold, Spezza still has time to be made into a captain as opposed to made a captain.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:And many of them have that extra appeal in the form of youth, hype, & looks.

Agreed. Difference being (I think) with Alfie still in the fold, Spezza still has time to be made into a captain as opposed to made a captain.

Ha! That's the perfect distinction. I believe Spezza could be made the captain in the future, but that doesn't mean he will be made into a captain before that time.

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
We can re-consider this validity of this statement after Spezza's gone a decent stretch producing, playing all roles, not creating brutal turnovers, & being healthy. Until then, this is pure hyperbole.

Absolutely. He has a chance to continue to play like this for the rest of the year and hopefully for the rest of his career. Seeing Alfie say what he did it validation to a lot of us that Spezza is indeed a huge piece of this team - and that the old school thinking that players can't change - is not always accurate. A few years ago, Spezza was nothing but a talented kid with a lot of immaturity, but this season, he's shown IMO that he's right ready to step into Alfie's skates as C when he leaves.

Sometimes we're all guilty of over-looking things right in front of us. We want Alfie to mentor Landeskog or even RNH, but he should also be mentoring Spezza - grooming him as the next C of the Sens if that's how he feels. Until it actually happens, it's nothing, but it's out there now and I'm very proud of Spezza for maturing into a man and taking charge of things around the room.

Again, more hyperbole. Let's talk about baby steps in the right direction, instead of saying "he's right ready to step into Alfie's skates."

If Spezza is made captain one day, it will have as much to do with his contract, looks, & point production as any leadership / 2-way play. The old breed of captain -- tough, gritty, team on their back -- is dying out, not because they aren't still needed on their teams but because of organizations selling tickets.

Look down the list of current NHL captains & tell me how Spezza measures up to them, right now, honestly. Spezza is as good a choice for captain right now as Ladd in ATL, Horcoff in EDM, McCabe in FLA, & maybe H. Sedin in VAN (Kesler is the real leader there) & OV in WAS (definitely a PR move). That's about it. The other captains in the league are true leaders & captains (or, they were very recently), guys who do a whole lot of everything to help their teams win. And many of them have that extra appeal in the form of youth, hype, & looks.

When I say Phillips is a captain, I'm thinking of a breed of captain that is, for better or worse, dying out largely because for PR reasons. Rivet, Foote, & Brewer are captains of the kind that I have in mind -- guys who value has (well, had -- none of these guys, excepting maybe Foote, is capable of being that true gritty leader in the Jason Smith mold) nothing to do with their looks or contract or point production. If you ask me, the time is nigh when you just won't see those types of guys made captain. And that's the only way in which it makes sense to say Spezza will be captain before Phillips.

Yeah, I can agree to a certain extent, but the way Spezza has carried himself the last two years makes me believe he's getting to that place. The two final steps were the booing by the crowd against the Pens, followed by him allowing for trade discussions, followed by him saying no, I want to be here. The second was getting married + having a kid. I'm sure that changes you for the better in terms of maturity and realizing that this is your life, you might as well be everything you can be before it's too late and you're riding into the sunset without anything other than the $$.

As for Phillips...I would never consider him captain material. Mike Commodore's a tool, he's getting what he deserves, but at the same time, he said when he walked into the dressing room in Ottawa and no one knew what system was being player - or what was going on, that's absolute damnation for a veteran like Phillips. He should have had those guys trying to buy into Hartsburg/Murray's system, but instead no one knew their arse from their elbow. I could be completely wrong, but Phillips does NOT strike me as C material.

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
We can re-consider this validity of this statement after Spezza's gone a decent stretch producing, playing all roles, not creating brutal turnovers, & being healthy. Until then, this is pure hyperbole.

Absolutely. He has a chance to continue to play like this for the rest of the year and hopefully for the rest of his career. Seeing Alfie say what he did it validation to a lot of us that Spezza is indeed a huge piece of this team - and that the old school thinking that players can't change - is not always accurate. A few years ago, Spezza was nothing but a talented kid with a lot of immaturity, but this season, he's shown IMO that he's right ready to step into Alfie's skates as C when he leaves.

Sometimes we're all guilty of over-looking things right in front of us. We want Alfie to mentor Landeskog or even RNH, but he should also be mentoring Spezza - grooming him as the next C of the Sens if that's how he feels. Until it actually happens, it's nothing, but it's out there now and I'm very proud of Spezza for maturing into a man and taking charge of things around the room.

Again, more hyperbole. Let's talk about baby steps in the right direction, instead of saying "he's right ready to step into Alfie's skates."

If Spezza is made captain one day, it will have as much to do with his contract, looks, & point production as any leadership / 2-way play. The old breed of captain -- tough, gritty, team on their back -- is dying out, not because they aren't still needed on their teams but because of organizations selling tickets.

Look down the list of current NHL captains & tell me how Spezza measures up to them, right now, honestly. Spezza is as good a choice for captain right now as Ladd in ATL, Horcoff in EDM, McCabe in FLA, & maybe H. Sedin in VAN (Kesler is the real leader there) & OV in WAS (definitely a PR move). That's about it. The other captains in the league are true leaders & captains (or, they were very recently), guys who do a whole lot of everything to help their teams win. And many of them have that extra appeal in the form of youth, hype, & looks.

When I say Phillips is a captain, I'm thinking of a breed of captain that is, for better or worse, dying out largely because for PR reasons. Rivet, Foote, & Brewer are captains of the kind that I have in mind -- guys who value has (well, had -- none of these guys, excepting maybe Foote, is capable of being that true gritty leader in the Jason Smith mold) nothing to do with their looks or contract or point production. If you ask me, the time is nigh when you just won't see those types of guys made captain. And that's the only way in which it makes sense to say Spezza will be captain before Phillips.

Yeah, I can agree to a certain extent, but the way Spezza has carried himself the last two years makes me believe he's getting to that place. The two final steps were the booing by the crowd against the Pens, followed by him allowing for trade discussions, followed by him saying no, I want to be here. The second was getting married + having a kid. I'm sure that changes you for the better in terms of maturity and realizing that this is your life, you might as well be everything you can be before it's too late and you're riding into the sunset without anything other than the $$.

As for Phillips...I would never consider him captain material. Mike Commodore's a tool, he's getting what he deserves, but at the same time, he said when he walked into the dressing room in Ottawa and no one knew what system was being player - or what was going on, that's absolute damnation for a veteran like Phillips. He should have had those guys trying to buy into Hartsburg/Murray's system, but instead no one knew their arse from their elbow. I could be completely wrong, but Phillips does NOT strike me as C material.

Yeah, let's just leave it at that.

One of the only players on this current roster that has been here a long time, and will most likely be here for the long haul, I like it.

rooneypoo wrote:
Yeah, let's just leave it at that.

Surely you can see the flaws in the Phillips for C argument. I have nothing against him, in fact, with the pickings so slim this summer and the coach's brain frying, I'd be up for re-signing him and seeing how he does under our new coach next year, but as a C, I simply don't see it.

I'll defer to the current Captain for advice on who should be the next Captain.

SpezDispenser wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:
Yeah, let's just leave it at that.

Surely you can see the flaws in the Phillips for C argument. I have nothing against him, in fact, with the pickings so slim this summer and the coach's brain frying, I'd be up for re-signing him and seeing how he does under our new coach next year, but as a C, I simply don't see it.

In the case you just made, how do you blame Phillips without blaming Alfie, Fisher, Kelly, Neil, etc., etc.? It doesn't make any sense to single him out as you've done in that example.

After Alfie, Phillips, Fisher, & Kelly are the closest things we have to a real captain (one in fact, not in name, I mean). I give the lead to Phillips because of age, service, & past performance.

rooneypoo wrote:
In the case you just made, how do you blame Phillips without blaming Alfie, Fisher, Kelly, Neil, etc., etc.? It doesn't make any sense to single him out as you've done in that example.

After Alfie, Phillips, Fisher, & Kelly are the closest things we have to a real captain (one in fact, not in name, I mean). I give the lead to Phillips because of age, service, & past performance.

I do blame Alfie and Fisher for some of this. I also blame the selection of assistant captains. You can't have 3 lead by example guys, in retrospect, Neil should have been one of them. Kelly too, he needs to get his head out of his arse and help the captains. Not impressed with any of them - least impressed with the C and 2 As. However...Alfie is what he is, he's a leader by example and that's not something I would mess with, but I would change the As on this team immediately if I got the job.

phillips + alfie = TOO PASSIVE

and I have no idea what Fisher is ilke, but he probably falls under the same category. You need vocal ppl on the bench, half the time the team chemistry is in shambles

With spezza, I don't think he's ready to be captain just yet. But Assistant captain? hell yeah