GAME DAY: Toronto Maple Leafs @ Ottawa Senators - 7:00pm ET - SAT. Jan. 1 2011

I was wondering why people thought Clouston was an "amazing" coach after a couple of ok seasons with the Sens.

Imagine if he was never hired. We'd still have Heatley!

Hoags wrote:

Michallica wrote:What a damn shame if clouston is axed because of this. Really hope that's not true.

A start would be waiving kovalev and putting him on re-entry. He could fetch us something worthwhile at the deadline but if they wanna win now, they gotta waive him. Ive been a kovie supporter, but it's obvious to me that this guy rubs the team off the wrong way and does no favors for the sens. Missed a glorious open net chance tonight when the game was meaningful.

Kovalev has an NMC

Fuck me...

Even the guys on Team 1200 were disgusted with the play tonight. Sad effort tonigt and even worse that I had to sit through it surrounded by arrogant and obnoxious leaf fans.

It's always embarrassing to pay the Leafs in Ottawa. Just as many if not more Leaf fans than Sens fans... and they are louder. And the Sens fans just left when the going got ugly.... leaving an arena full of Leaf fans to "boo" our Captain. Disgraceful.

I have said that while Ottawa NEEDS to rebuild... the fans will not support the team.

Dash wrote:It's always embarrassing to pay the Leafs in Ottawa. Just as many if not more Leaf fans than Sens fans... and they are louder. And the Sens fans just left when the going got ugly.... leaving an arena full of Leaf fans to "boo" our Captain. Disgraceful.

I have said that while Ottawa NEEDS to rebuild... the fans will not support the team.

Most rebuilding teams have poor attendance, but they overcome it. Chicago always had empty seats now they're the best ticket in town. Same with Washington as well.

Last year when we MADE the playoffs we didn't have amazing attendance numbers, so I think it won't be too bad if the team goes with a full rebuild. People who appreciate watching young, hard working, skilled players (which we will hopefully have in the near distant future), will still come to the games even if we lose a lot (I'm thinking along the lines of Colorado last season, and Edmonton this year).

Yes, but the fans not going is one thing, but Melnyk tolerating it is another.... he might say forget that and make the GM do something.

Yeah that's true. Hopefully Melnyk sees what most of us are seeing, though.

Besides, he's already rich as it is

What a fiasco!!! Time to blow this Dung up!

Big Ev wrote:Yeah that's true. Hopefully Melnyk sees what most of us are seeing, though.

Besides, he's already rich as it is

He's making money from the arena operations, but the hockey side is a different story. Was it the year before the SCF run that they managed to break even by making it to the second round? They had 6 home games that year, which means missing the playoffs they would have been $6M in the hole. And that was the year we finished with 113 points and sold out for much of the season.

Since that year the ticket prices have gone up less than the salary cap, and we are probably averaging 1,000 fewer tickets per game. Granted, the loonie has helped, but I still think Melnyk will lose a boatload this season. Probably in the $10-15M range. He could make some of that loss up in spending closer to the floor than ceiling, but will fans stay home even more than this year? That is the $64K question, isn't it? And it's up to Leeder -- as the accountant -- to tell him what will happen. Leeder, perhaps, is not the best choice as President when it comes to things like hiring the new GM, but he is absolutely the guy to figure out the best course of action from a business/financial side of things.

Personally, I think a cheaper team (which would probably include some fan favorites like Fisher plying their trade in another market) that plays an exciting brand of hockey would be able to draw enough fans to actually lose less money than they will lose this season. They are not going to break even, forget that, but they can actually lose less money while turning this team around with better draft picks from a couple of losing seasons.

Mike Fisher might be too valuable to the Senators though for personal reasons. He alone has a large fanbase that likely brings in spectators, plus his wife is a major recording artist and celebrity. I think he is good to have around, especially considering the game he plays. Very good player to have around a young team.

On the other hand, he is also a potentially attractive trading piece.... so it is a tough decision.

I doubt Alfredsson will ever leave, unless it is one of those mutual decisions ala Ray Bourque. Would it hurt his image and career if he left the team to pursue a Stanley Cup elsewhere, then returned for one final year in Ottawa?

My personal list of players to see stay are: Alfredsson, Spezza, Fisher, and Karlsson.

Guys like Foligno and Regin are still young so I would likely keep them unless it was for a trade similar to Latendresse (one young underachiever for another).

And the non-roster guys like prospects are also part of the future and I wouldn't part with nay of them. That includes picks, unless it is something like a swap of 1st or 2nds, but obviously only if it is beneficial to Ottawa.

Dash wrote:Mike Fisher might be too valuable to the Senators though for personal reasons. He alone has a large fanbase that likely brings in spectators, plus his wife is a major recording artist and celebrity. I think he is good to have around, especially considering the game he plays. Very good player to have around a young team.

On the other hand, he is also a potentially attractive trading piece.... so it is a tough decision.

I doubt Alfredsson will ever leave, unless it is one of those mutual decisions ala Ray Bourque. Would it hurt his image and career if he left the team to pursue a Stanley Cup elsewhere, then returned for one final year in Ottawa?

My personal list of players to see stay are: Alfredsson, Spezza, Fisher, and Karlsson.

Guys like Foligno and Regin are still young so I would likely keep them unless it was for a trade similar to Latendresse (one young underachiever for another).

And the non-roster guys like prospects are also part of the future and I wouldn't part with nay of them. That includes picks, unless it is something like a swap of 1st or 2nds, but obviously only if it is beneficial to Ottawa.

That's a good post. I think you hit the nail on the head. Fisher is very valuable from a merchandising aspect + popularity. It's not really about that obviously, but that plays into it big time whether we like it or not. It's not the end of the world with Fisher anyway, he's a good player, but his streakiness are going to really hurt this team in the next couple of years because we simply don't have the talent to be able to support streaks. Still, the dude hits 20 goals every year + hits everything that moves when he's healthy.

Phillips is the other massive question mark. Do you trade him, or do you give him the benefit of the doubt and try to sign him @ 3 years, 3.5 million (I doubt he'd go less than that).

It's not really that the core is wrong - it's just old and streaky. If we're to keep Fisher, then we need young, fast, big and skilled up front to accommodate that. It wouldn't be the way I would do it necessarily, but it might still be enough to work in the next 3-4 years.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Dash wrote:Mike Fisher might be too valuable to the Senators though for personal reasons. He alone has a large fanbase that likely brings in spectators, plus his wife is a major recording artist and celebrity. I think he is good to have around, especially considering the game he plays. Very good player to have around a young team.

On the other hand, he is also a potentially attractive trading piece.... so it is a tough decision.

I doubt Alfredsson will ever leave, unless it is one of those mutual decisions ala Ray Bourque. Would it hurt his image and career if he left the team to pursue a Stanley Cup elsewhere, then returned for one final year in Ottawa?

My personal list of players to see stay are: Alfredsson, Spezza, Fisher, and Karlsson.

Guys like Foligno and Regin are still young so I would likely keep them unless it was for a trade similar to Latendresse (one young underachiever for another).

And the non-roster guys like prospects are also part of the future and I wouldn't part with nay of them. That includes picks, unless it is something like a swap of 1st or 2nds, but obviously only if it is beneficial to Ottawa.

That's a good post. I think you hit the nail on the head. Fisher is very valuable from a merchandising aspect + popularity. It's not really about that obviously, but that plays into it big time whether we like it or not. It's not the end of the world with Fisher anyway, he's a good player, but his streakiness are going to really hurt this team in the next couple of years because we simply don't have the talent to be able to support streaks. Still, the dude hits 20 goals every year + hits everything that moves when he's healthy.

Phillips is the other massive question mark. Do you trade him, or do you give him the benefit of the doubt and try to sign him @ 3 years, 3.5 million (I doubt he'd go less than that).

It's not really that the core is wrong - it's just old and streaky. If we're to keep Fisher, then we need young, fast, big and skilled up front to accommodate that. It wouldn't be the way I would do it necessarily, but it might still be enough to work in the next 3-4 years.

do we really think that keeping a player that's been around for years helps merch sales? people have his jersey/shirts etc... bring in a new player that's exciting probably creates more sales.... that's just my opinion. i'd think karlsson is selling more jerseys then fisher but i don't have that kind of stats. does anybody? i'd be very interested...

SpezDispenser wrote:

Dash wrote:Mike Fisher might be too valuable to the Senators though for personal reasons. He alone has a large fanbase that likely brings in spectators, plus his wife is a major recording artist and celebrity. I think he is good to have around, especially considering the game he plays. Very good player to have around a young team.

On the other hand, he is also a potentially attractive trading piece.... so it is a tough decision.

I doubt Alfredsson will ever leave, unless it is one of those mutual decisions ala Ray Bourque. Would it hurt his image and career if he left the team to pursue a Stanley Cup elsewhere, then returned for one final year in Ottawa?

My personal list of players to see stay are: Alfredsson, Spezza, Fisher, and Karlsson.

Guys like Foligno and Regin are still young so I would likely keep them unless it was for a trade similar to Latendresse (one young underachiever for another).

And the non-roster guys like prospects are also part of the future and I wouldn't part with nay of them. That includes picks, unless it is something like a swap of 1st or 2nds, but obviously only if it is beneficial to Ottawa.

That's a good post. I think you hit the nail on the head. Fisher is very valuable from a merchandising aspect + popularity. It's not really about that obviously, but that plays into it big time whether we like it or not. It's not the end of the world with Fisher anyway, he's a good player, but his streakiness are going to really hurt this team in the next couple of years because we simply don't have the talent to be able to support streaks. Still, the dude hits 20 goals every year + hits everything that moves when he's healthy.

Phillips is the other massive question mark. Do you trade him, or do you give him the benefit of the doubt and try to sign him @ 3 years, 3.5 million (I doubt he'd go less than that).

It's not really that the core is wrong - it's just old and streaky. If we're to keep Fisher, then we need young, fast, big and skilled up front to accommodate that. It wouldn't be the way I would do it necessarily, but it might still be enough to work in the next 3-4 years.

I don't want Phillips re-signed, even at a hometown discount. We've seen this (crappy) movie before with Redden.

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Dash wrote:Mike Fisher might be too valuable to the Senators though for personal reasons. He alone has a large fanbase that likely brings in spectators, plus his wife is a major recording artist and celebrity. I think he is good to have around, especially considering the game he plays. Very good player to have around a young team.

On the other hand, he is also a potentially attractive trading piece.... so it is a tough decision.

I doubt Alfredsson will ever leave, unless it is one of those mutual decisions ala Ray Bourque. Would it hurt his image and career if he left the team to pursue a Stanley Cup elsewhere, then returned for one final year in Ottawa?

My personal list of players to see stay are: Alfredsson, Spezza, Fisher, and Karlsson.

Guys like Foligno and Regin are still young so I would likely keep them unless it was for a trade similar to Latendresse (one young underachiever for another).

And the non-roster guys like prospects are also part of the future and I wouldn't part with nay of them. That includes picks, unless it is something like a swap of 1st or 2nds, but obviously only if it is beneficial to Ottawa.

That's a good post. I think you hit the nail on the head. Fisher is very valuable from a merchandising aspect + popularity. It's not really about that obviously, but that plays into it big time whether we like it or not. It's not the end of the world with Fisher anyway, he's a good player, but his streakiness are going to really hurt this team in the next couple of years because we simply don't have the talent to be able to support streaks. Still, the dude hits 20 goals every year + hits everything that moves when he's healthy.

Phillips is the other massive question mark. Do you trade him, or do you give him the benefit of the doubt and try to sign him @ 3 years, 3.5 million (I doubt he'd go less than that).

It's not really that the core is wrong - it's just old and streaky. If we're to keep Fisher, then we need young, fast, big and skilled up front to accommodate that. It wouldn't be the way I would do it necessarily, but it might still be enough to work in the next 3-4 years.

I don't want Phillips re-signed, even at a hometown discount. We've seen this (crappy) movie before with Redden.

they aren't the same type of player and i doubt they end the same.
but personally i'm all for trading phillips and re-sinning him in the summer.

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Dash wrote:Mike Fisher might be too valuable to the Senators though for personal reasons. He alone has a large fanbase that likely brings in spectators, plus his wife is a major recording artist and celebrity. I think he is good to have around, especially considering the game he plays. Very good player to have around a young team.

On the other hand, he is also a potentially attractive trading piece.... so it is a tough decision.

I doubt Alfredsson will ever leave, unless it is one of those mutual decisions ala Ray Bourque. Would it hurt his image and career if he left the team to pursue a Stanley Cup elsewhere, then returned for one final year in Ottawa?

My personal list of players to see stay are: Alfredsson, Spezza, Fisher, and Karlsson.

Guys like Foligno and Regin are still young so I would likely keep them unless it was for a trade similar to Latendresse (one young underachiever for another).

And the non-roster guys like prospects are also part of the future and I wouldn't part with nay of them. That includes picks, unless it is something like a swap of 1st or 2nds, but obviously only if it is beneficial to Ottawa.

That's a good post. I think you hit the nail on the head. Fisher is very valuable from a merchandising aspect + popularity. It's not really about that obviously, but that plays into it big time whether we like it or not. It's not the end of the world with Fisher anyway, he's a good player, but his streakiness are going to really hurt this team in the next couple of years because we simply don't have the talent to be able to support streaks. Still, the dude hits 20 goals every year + hits everything that moves when he's healthy.

Phillips is the other massive question mark. Do you trade him, or do you give him the benefit of the doubt and try to sign him @ 3 years, 3.5 million (I doubt he'd go less than that).

It's not really that the core is wrong - it's just old and streaky. If we're to keep Fisher, then we need young, fast, big and skilled up front to accommodate that. It wouldn't be the way I would do it necessarily, but it might still be enough to work in the next 3-4 years.

I don't want Phillips re-signed, even at a hometown discount. We've seen this (crappy) movie before with Redden.

they aren't the same type of player and i doubt they end the same.
but personally i'm all for trading phillips and re-sinning him in the summer.

No, I was referring to the decline in play. The way Phillips has played this year, he's not even worth a contract at the hometown discount rate.

The other thing to consider is, if Ottawa does go rebuild, and fills out the roster with ELCs, you will need a few large contracts to raise the cap to the floor. Ottawa already has a few of them (Spezza, Alfredsso, Gonchar and Fisher), but hopefully they lose some guys like Phillips, Kuba, Leclaire and Kovalev. Lots of cap room.

If the Sens can bring in some exciting youth (Silfverberg, Petersson, Rundblad) all while keeping their expenses low, and they can nearly sell out (perhaps lowering ticket prices a little), they could make ends meet, which is a good thing for Melnyk.

As I said, he's going to be the make or break factor. He either allows the team to start over fresh and potentially lose some money for the next few years, or he makes them spend and continually be a playoff failure.

Maybe he should sell the Jim Balls?

hemlock wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Dash wrote:Mike Fisher might be too valuable to the Senators though for personal reasons. He alone has a large fanbase that likely brings in spectators, plus his wife is a major recording artist and celebrity. I think he is good to have around, especially considering the game he plays. Very good player to have around a young team.

On the other hand, he is also a potentially attractive trading piece.... so it is a tough decision.

I doubt Alfredsson will ever leave, unless it is one of those mutual decisions ala Ray Bourque. Would it hurt his image and career if he left the team to pursue a Stanley Cup elsewhere, then returned for one final year in Ottawa?

My personal list of players to see stay are: Alfredsson, Spezza, Fisher, and Karlsson.

Guys like Foligno and Regin are still young so I would likely keep them unless it was for a trade similar to Latendresse (one young underachiever for another).

And the non-roster guys like prospects are also part of the future and I wouldn't part with nay of them. That includes picks, unless it is something like a swap of 1st or 2nds, but obviously only if it is beneficial to Ottawa.

That's a good post. I think you hit the nail on the head. Fisher is very valuable from a merchandising aspect + popularity. It's not really about that obviously, but that plays into it big time whether we like it or not. It's not the end of the world with Fisher anyway, he's a good player, but his streakiness are going to really hurt this team in the next couple of years because we simply don't have the talent to be able to support streaks. Still, the dude hits 20 goals every year + hits everything that moves when he's healthy.

Phillips is the other massive question mark. Do you trade him, or do you give him the benefit of the doubt and try to sign him @ 3 years, 3.5 million (I doubt he'd go less than that).

It's not really that the core is wrong - it's just old and streaky. If we're to keep Fisher, then we need young, fast, big and skilled up front to accommodate that. It wouldn't be the way I would do it necessarily, but it might still be enough to work in the next 3-4 years.

I don't want Phillips re-signed, even at a hometown discount. We've seen this (crappy) movie before with Redden.

they aren't the same type of player and i doubt they end the same.
but personally i'm all for trading phillips and re-sinning him in the summer.

No, I was referring to the decline in play. The way Phillips has played this year, he's not even worth a contract at the hometown discount rate.

Agreed - it would be a bad move to sign this guy. No signs that he is capable of even being a shadow of the guy he perhaps once was. Last 2 years I have seen his play decline. Signing him says the Sens do not care about play.

We love Fisher - but at his salary, I am sure that a lot of people dump on him for not being worth it.... well you would be applying that to Phillips, who is older and not as good.

wprager wrote:Personally, I think a cheaper team (which would probably include some fan favorites like Fisher plying their trade in another market) that plays an exciting brand of hockey would be able to draw enough fans to actually lose less money than they will lose this season. They are not going to break even, forget that, but they can actually lose less money while turning this team around with better draft picks from a couple of losing seasons.

Most of the moaning and groaning I'm hearing and reading is exactly that. Fans paying to see a terrible, boring product on home ice.

The indifferent look on Fisher after the 3rd or 4th goal tells me all I need to know about this season. Nashville has plenty of assets to send back if it's a rebuild we're hoping for.