GAME DAY: Toronto Maple Leafs @ Ottawa Senators - 7:00pm ET - SAT. Jan. 1 2011

kovalev is another matter. i'm suprised that anyone is suprised with the effort we are getting from him. from the start i knew this was going to be one big failed experiment.
i'm just happy he'll be gone at the end of the year. at least he took some of the heat off spezza from the media.

SpezDispenser wrote:I would say the fact that he's a lock for the HOF and a regular 50-60 point producer means that he's in a slump and on a crappy team. Gonchar will be fine, he's a worry, but he's not the biggest worry right now.

Not on this team. Not by a long shot. I'll be surpised if he cracks 40 points, which considering his defensive play is probably not what Murray thought he was getting when he signed this guy to a $5 million contract for 3 (what appears to be) painfully long years.

I'd love to see Gonchar turn things around but the team sucking seems like an excuse to me. His effort is downright deplorable at times. Jesse Winchester busts his Donkey every single second he's on the ice. Now I don't expect that sort of thing from Gonchar, but he ought to look like he gives a dman!

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:So we move the 32 year old Phillips...who teaches Cowen the tricks of the NHL trade specific to his position? Matt Carkner?

Kind of like Gonchar teaching Karlsson you mean?

Well first, I think Karlsson's hockey IQ is quite a bit higher than Cowen's. Second, we don't really know everything that goes on on the bench and in practices, but I'd bet Gonchar is a valuable mentor for EK, looking at what he did for Letang.

I dunno. Cowen will need someone to show him the ropes, IMO, and neither Carkner nor Gonchar is the guy to do it.

I was partially kidding. Off the ice, Gonchar is probably a good mentor, but I was referring to his less than stellar play, and his even worse effort. Those are the things I don't want rubbing off on Karlsson, or anyone else.

As far as Phillips mentoring Cowen, you're right that he'll need a mentor just as Karlsson did/does, but I really wonder if it's worth it to have a guy who's on-ice play is less than good just to have an off-ice mentor.

EDIT: Is there anyone here that could make a reasonable argument that Gonchar is worth what we are paying him now and for two more years factoring everything in (on-ice play and mentoring Karlsson et al.)? Because I sure can't justify it.

who knows? maybe he'll play better next year. all i see this year is a team(an entire team) that looks like it's given up. i don't want to make excuse for the guy but i imagine it might feel like Dung to come from a team who's done more winning then not to a team like ottawa that is on the verge of a rebuild.

And if he doesn't? Then what.

This wasn't a reasonable argument to the question I asked by the way. He doesn't feel good to come to a less succesful team? Boo Cussing Hoo. He has $15 million reasons to show up at the rink and put in an honest day's work.

I will say that I would accept Phillips back on a few conditions - 1) it is a short-term deal worth no more than $3M per year; 2) Kuba is dealt.

We should only have 1 overpaid, underachieving, veteran defenceman. Right now we have 3.

Of our current defence, Gonchar, Kuba, Karlsson and Carkner have contracts. Campoli is a RFA, Phillips a UFA. If both are back and no other moves are made the team is the same. So no Cowen, among other young players I would love to see back there.

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:I was partially kidding. Off the ice, Gonchar is probably a good mentor, but I was referring to his less than stellar play, and his even worse effort. Those are the things I don't want rubbing off on Karlsson, or anyone else.

As far as Phillips mentoring Cowen, you're right that he'll need a mentor just as Karlsson did/does, but I really wonder if it's worth it to have a guy who's on-ice play is less than good just to have an off-ice mentor.

Well, we have to ask a couple of questions:

A) Will we get a better defenceman for equal/less money?
B) Will we be able to find another equally good/better mentor?

Cowen looks locked in to the LD spot opposite Karlsson in the future, so his development is quite important to this team long-term (that pairing could potentially play like 24/25+ minutes a night for us in all situations).

Also, if Phillips is the only D who is bad, then we'll be alright next season (we won't be competing for the Cup regardless). If the D in general is bad, then we'll be getting another high pick while developing our young players. Win-win (without any actual wins).

I think the answer to A) probably yes. It would be hard to get worse than Phillips has been most of the time. We could probably get a d-man to give us what we've gotten from Phillips this season for less money.

The answer to B) probably not, no.

hemlock wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:So we move the 32 year old Phillips...who teaches Cowen the tricks of the NHL trade specific to his position? Matt Carkner?

Kind of like Gonchar teaching Karlsson you mean?

Well first, I think Karlsson's hockey IQ is quite a bit higher than Cowen's. Second, we don't really know everything that goes on on the bench and in practices, but I'd bet Gonchar is a valuable mentor for EK, looking at what he did for Letang.

I dunno. Cowen will need someone to show him the ropes, IMO, and neither Carkner nor Gonchar is the guy to do it.

I was partially kidding. Off the ice, Gonchar is probably a good mentor, but I was referring to his less than stellar play, and his even worse effort. Those are the things I don't want rubbing off on Karlsson, or anyone else.

As far as Phillips mentoring Cowen, you're right that he'll need a mentor just as Karlsson did/does, but I really wonder if it's worth it to have a guy who's on-ice play is less than good just to have an off-ice mentor.

EDIT: Is there anyone here that could make a reasonable argument that Gonchar is worth what we are paying him now and for two more years factoring everything in (on-ice play and mentoring Karlsson et al.)? Because I sure can't justify it.

who knows? maybe he'll play better next year. all i see this year is a team(an entire team) that looks like it's given up. i don't want to make excuse for the guy but i imagine it might feel like Dung to come from a team who's done more winning then not to a team like ottawa that is on the verge of a rebuild.

And if he doesn't? Then what.

This wasn't a reasonable argument to the question I asked by the way. He doesn't feel good to come to a less succesful team? Boo Cussing Hoo. He has $15 million reasons to show up at the rink and put in an honest day's work.

i'm saying it's an adjustment. as it's been said before gonchar has always taken a year to adjust to his new team. not saying it's a good thing but i'm saying there's a chance he's not going downhill.

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:So we move the 32 year old Phillips...who teaches Cowen the tricks of the NHL trade specific to his position? Matt Carkner?

Kind of like Gonchar teaching Karlsson you mean?

Well first, I think Karlsson's hockey IQ is quite a bit higher than Cowen's. Second, we don't really know everything that goes on on the bench and in practices, but I'd bet Gonchar is a valuable mentor for EK, looking at what he did for Letang.

I dunno. Cowen will need someone to show him the ropes, IMO, and neither Carkner nor Gonchar is the guy to do it.

I was partially kidding. Off the ice, Gonchar is probably a good mentor, but I was referring to his less than stellar play, and his even worse effort. Those are the things I don't want rubbing off on Karlsson, or anyone else.

As far as Phillips mentoring Cowen, you're right that he'll need a mentor just as Karlsson did/does, but I really wonder if it's worth it to have a guy who's on-ice play is less than good just to have an off-ice mentor.

EDIT: Is there anyone here that could make a reasonable argument that Gonchar is worth what we are paying him now and for two more years factoring everything in (on-ice play and mentoring Karlsson et al.)? Because I sure can't justify it.

who knows? maybe he'll play better next year. all i see this year is a team(an entire team) that looks like it's given up. i don't want to make excuse for the guy but i imagine it might feel like Dung to come from a team who's done more winning then not to a team like ottawa that is on the verge of a rebuild.

And if he doesn't? Then what.

This wasn't a reasonable argument to the question I asked by the way. He doesn't feel good to come to a less succesful team? Boo Cussing Hoo. He has $15 million reasons to show up at the rink and put in an honest day's work.

i'm saying it's an adjustment. as it's been said before gonchar has always taken a year to adjust to his new team. not saying it's a good thing but i'm saying there's a chance he's not going downhill.

"There's a chance he's not going downhill"

I think that says it all, don't you?

http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.php?year_id=2011&team_id=-1&position_id=D&fa_type_id=2

List of all the UFA defenceman next year. Among the noteables (as far as veterans go):

Jovanovski, Lidstrom (not an option), Markov, McCabe, Hamrlik, Hannan, Brewer, Bieksa, Rivet, Staios, Sopel, Gill, Hejda, Martinek, O'Donnell, Foote...

While it is likely that many of those guys will not actually become available, they are potentially replacements for CP4.

hemlock wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:So we move the 32 year old Phillips...who teaches Cowen the tricks of the NHL trade specific to his position? Matt Carkner?

Kind of like Gonchar teaching Karlsson you mean?

Well first, I think Karlsson's hockey IQ is quite a bit higher than Cowen's. Second, we don't really know everything that goes on on the bench and in practices, but I'd bet Gonchar is a valuable mentor for EK, looking at what he did for Letang.

I dunno. Cowen will need someone to show him the ropes, IMO, and neither Carkner nor Gonchar is the guy to do it.

I was partially kidding. Off the ice, Gonchar is probably a good mentor, but I was referring to his less than stellar play, and his even worse effort. Those are the things I don't want rubbing off on Karlsson, or anyone else.

As far as Phillips mentoring Cowen, you're right that he'll need a mentor just as Karlsson did/does, but I really wonder if it's worth it to have a guy who's on-ice play is less than good just to have an off-ice mentor.

EDIT: Is there anyone here that could make a reasonable argument that Gonchar is worth what we are paying him now and for two more years factoring everything in (on-ice play and mentoring Karlsson et al.)? Because I sure can't justify it.

who knows? maybe he'll play better next year. all i see this year is a team(an entire team) that looks like it's given up. i don't want to make excuse for the guy but i imagine it might feel like Dung to come from a team who's done more winning then not to a team like ottawa that is on the verge of a rebuild.

And if he doesn't? Then what.

This wasn't a reasonable argument to the question I asked by the way. He doesn't feel good to come to a less succesful team? Boo Cussing Hoo. He has $15 million reasons to show up at the rink and put in an honest day's work.

i'm saying it's an adjustment. as it's been said before gonchar has always taken a year to adjust to his new team. not saying it's a good thing but i'm saying there's a chance he's not going downhill.

"There's a chance he's not going downhill"

I think that says it all, don't you?

bad phrasing on my part. he's having a bad year. you like that one better? jeez.

Dash wrote:http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.php?year_id=2011&team_id=-1&position_id=D&fa_type_id=2

List of all the UFA defenceman next year. Among the noteables (as far as veterans go):

Jovanovski, Lidstrom (not an option), Markov, McCabe, Hamrlik, Hannan, Brewer, Bieksa, Rivet, Staios, Sopel, Gill, Hejda, Martinek, O'Donnell, Foote...

While it is likely that many of those guys will not actually become available, they are potentially replacements for CP4.

lets have another look at that list when july rolls around. i think phillips will look appealing at that point.
it will be interesting to see what happens with markov. i'm not sure the habs will keep him. maybe a one year deal to see if the knee holds up.

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:So we move the 32 year old Phillips...who teaches Cowen the tricks of the NHL trade specific to his position? Matt Carkner?

Kind of like Gonchar teaching Karlsson you mean?

Well first, I think Karlsson's hockey IQ is quite a bit higher than Cowen's. Second, we don't really know everything that goes on on the bench and in practices, but I'd bet Gonchar is a valuable mentor for EK, looking at what he did for Letang.

I dunno. Cowen will need someone to show him the ropes, IMO, and neither Carkner nor Gonchar is the guy to do it.

I was partially kidding. Off the ice, Gonchar is probably a good mentor, but I was referring to his less than stellar play, and his even worse effort. Those are the things I don't want rubbing off on Karlsson, or anyone else.

As far as Phillips mentoring Cowen, you're right that he'll need a mentor just as Karlsson did/does, but I really wonder if it's worth it to have a guy who's on-ice play is less than good just to have an off-ice mentor.

EDIT: Is there anyone here that could make a reasonable argument that Gonchar is worth what we are paying him now and for two more years factoring everything in (on-ice play and mentoring Karlsson et al.)? Because I sure can't justify it.

who knows? maybe he'll play better next year. all i see this year is a team(an entire team) that looks like it's given up. i don't want to make excuse for the guy but i imagine it might feel like Dung to come from a team who's done more winning then not to a team like ottawa that is on the verge of a rebuild.

And if he doesn't? Then what.

This wasn't a reasonable argument to the question I asked by the way. He doesn't feel good to come to a less succesful team? Boo Cussing Hoo. He has $15 million reasons to show up at the rink and put in an honest day's work.

i'm saying it's an adjustment. as it's been said before gonchar has always taken a year to adjust to his new team. not saying it's a good thing but i'm saying there's a chance he's not going downhill.

"There's a chance he's not going downhill"

I think that says it all, don't you?

bad phrasing on my part. he's having a bad year. you like that one better? jeez.

Heh. It's not the wording. It's the fact that we are 40 games into his Sens career and we are already hoping that he'll rebound. Definitely he isn't what I expected (and I was one of the few who were against the signing when it was announced).

O'Donnell has been pretty good for Doughty, has he been not?

Jovanovski's going to be one sought after guy. Coming off a huge contract and with Phoenix' situation, he may be looking for a change?

Markov and Hamrlik though are two expensive guys that could come off of Montreal's salary, and can be replaced by an extension to Wiz, and keeping Subban in the line-up.

Phillips has been playing very well since being paired up with Karlsson. He wasn't working with Gonchar for whatever reason. True, he had a brain fart on the 2nd (?) goal, but over the course of the last dozen or so games he's been playing better. Not a great endorsement for a guy making $3.5M but, let's face it, there are only 2 veterans on this team earning their paychecks -- Kelly and Shannon.

Dash wrote:O'Donnell has been pretty good for Doughty, has he been not?

Jovanovski's going to be one sought after guy. Coming off a huge contract and with Phoenix' situation, he may be looking for a change?

Markov and Hamrlik though are two expensive guys that could come off of Montreal's salary, and can be replaced by an extension to Wiz, and keeping Subban in the line-up.

i'm thinking retirement. done. finish.

What's happened to regular posters PKC or sens4win?

Can't speak for PKC, but S4W is more a poster in the sim league.

SpezDispenser wrote:Can't speak for PKC, but S4W is more a poster in the sim league.

I just searched PKC's latest posts and he had some memorable ones before he went missing; poor little guy was an angry man. Let's just say he wasn't a fan of the Ottawa Senators recently.

https://gmcentralhockey.forumotion.net/t5030p80-gdt-dallas-stars-ottawa-senators-730pm-et-wednesday-nov-24th#205684

If I didn't know better, I would think he was silenced by the Ottawa Senators Promotions and Marketing team.

Why all the hate for Phillips? I know he crapped all over himself for most of this season but him and Karlsson while paired together have looked good far more than not and Phillips has put in at least a handful of stellar defensive efforts in the short time those two have been together.

Be disgusted with the level of play, prior to the EK - Phillips pairing, if you like but give some credit for a turn around in his game and give some credit to Phillips for an improvement in Karlsson's game as well.

The fact that his game has seen marked improvements and flashes of his shut down days is enough for me to want him back next season as a solid veteran D who can mentor the young guys and provide some leadership. Definitely on a 2 or 3 year deal max and for sure you take advantage of his poor play while paired with the Gonch in order to get a nice discount.