August Question 4: The Most OVERrated Players

asq2 wrote:

Bass Destruction wrote:The problem with saying that Crosby is this generation's Gretzky is that there are other players that produce at the same rate that he does, while Gretzky was a cut above the rest.

And I did concede that Crosby produces more than Toews in the regular season. But many would argue the playoffs are the only thing that counts, although i don't ( ). I also think that next year Toews is going to explode offensively in the regular season, based on his dominance in the playoffs. But regardless, I think Toews capabilities on defence are vastly underrated, far outweigh Crosby's, and should not be overlooked.

I also don't think saying Guerin is awful, but then say that Toews plays with solid linemates like Byfuglien and Versteeg is all that fair. Byfuglien's career high is fewer points than Guerin has put up in over a decade. Two seasons ago, Guerin still managed 36 pts in 61 games prior to the trade playing for the Islanders.

And they have tried Crosby with several gifted linemates in Pittsburgh, including Malkin, Guerin, Hossa, Sykora, Leclair, Palffy, even Armstrong (whose career high is also higher than Byfuglien's).

For the record, I'm not saying that their offensive talents are on par, because they are not, Crosby is the clear winner in that department; but that Toews' numbers have yet to be fully show his capabilities. Crosby will probably still outscore him by 20-30 points next year, but I, personally, believe that Toews overall play makes up for that.

PS: I highly respect everything you say. I hope nothing I said comes out as offensive, my intention was only to disagree, not be condescending or anything.

What? You don't come off as condescending at all. I hope I'm not either.

Yeah, I'll concede that Guerin is not considerably worse than Versteeg or Byfuglien, although I've talked to a number of Pens fans who are not, erm, a huge fan of his. The main piece here is Kane, who is IMO a quickly emerging superstar and who should end up as a perennial top-5 scorer. Crosby has Malkin, who is better, but they don't really play on the same line all that often. I guess Malone also played with Crosby, didn't he? It's still IMO a pretty pathetic collection of linemates, though. He had Hossa for a considerably shorter period of time than did Toews, and never had Havlat either.

Toews is a better defensive player, but this is another area where Crosby is improving quickly. Anyway, my point via the Crosby/Gretzky Toews/Yzerkic comparison (and admittedly not a valid one) is that Crosby's offensive dominance outweighs other areas where he is perhaps relatively lacking. Maybe - though I'll probably regret opening this can of worms - it'd be like comparing Spezza and Fisher, ignoring contracts.

Even looking at the playoffs, Toews has 42 points in 39 games, and Crosby has 82 points in 62 games. In 45 fewer games (granted, all post-lock-out), Sid's only 6 points off matching Alfie's career playoff output, and he's only just turned 23, which was IIRC Alfie's age when he entered the NHL. They both have a Cup, they both have a gold medal, and Toews admittedly has a Conn Smythe in his favour, but then Crosby has a Hart Trophy, Art Ross, Rocket Richard, Lester B. Pearson and even a Mark Messier leadership award. We as Sens fans should know better than anyone that when it comes to the playoffs, it's not just a bunch of numbers with Sid. He destroyed us.

Again, Toews is a wonderful player and I'd take him in an instant to build a team around, but I think the hockey community has a short memory, and likes to put players on a pedestal by focussing only on recent events. Remember how Zetterberg was supposed to be the "real" best player in the NHL? Or Lecavalier? Or Iginla?

Toews IMHO needs to have at least another great season (and/or increase his offensive numbers) to get into the discussion about being in the super-elite category. Crosby's had five (or at worst four) incredible years.