Malkin possibly on the move?

stempniaksen wrote:

hemlock wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Big Ev wrote:But Malkin isn't a soft player, he takes hits and dishes them out from time to time. He's also a player who elevates his game when he takes a big hit from an opposing player. He'll go into the dirty areas.

Chara's a great defencman and all, but he is not a winner.

Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner (and as usual it's not Chara).

N4L, I'd like to see you defend Chara for the exact same reasons you vilify Spezza.

Listen, chara is a spectacular defenceman. But when taking into account their ages along with how many times they've won on the biggest stage, and the way they performed once they reach that stage I take Malkin every time.

The guy is a top 3 Russian player, and is a top 5 player in the world no questions asked. His regular season dominance and strong playoffs prove that.

I'll give this a shot. N4L's biggest issue with Spezza is the fact that he believed that Spezza cannot or will not ever lead the Sens as a $7 million player. I'm inclined to agree since we haven't seen much of anything sustained over any reasonable amount of time that shows he could be that guy.

Chara on the other hand IS that guy for the Bruins. He's the captain and undisputed leader of that team.

Also, comparing a D-man to a forward just isn't fair. Chara contributes in ways Spezza never, ever could, all while playing in every situation, for more minutes a night. Sure, he'll never out point Spezza, but he brings intangibles that Spezza (not just him, but a lot of players) couldn't even dream about.

I fail to see this Chara isn't a winner argument. He didn't have any success with the Sens (play-off wise), but neither did Alfie then if you want to call a spade, a spade. By this argument, Raymond Bourque was a career loser until he broke through and won the Cup in his last NHL game? Nonsense.

Alfie led his team to the SCF for the first time on modern history. I fail to see any time that Chara has ever led his team anywhere other than a playoff spot.

Most of the Bruins/Senators playoff sucess has come in spite of Chara and not because of it.

And my point was never that Spezza is a better player (I would be foolish to argue that). My point was that N4L's biggest argument against Spezza for his entire career has been the fact that he has never won anything, and that it was hypocritical to not use the very same arguments against Chara.

N4L wrote:I dont want to turn this into another Spezza convo, it's been beaten to death.

N4L wrote:Yes and no. Chara is a leader, works hard, and shows he wants to win. Spezza isnt a lot of that and really hasnt won anything being on a ton of teams that have been the favaorites and expected to win. Be it in The OHL, International, or in The AHL or NHL.

Big Ev wrote:Just because he's been the captain for 13 years or whatever it is, and all he has to show for it is 1 SCF. He plays hurt, fine, but that doesn't make him an awesome leader. I just don't get how he has been the longest serving captain in the NHL without having won it all during that span. He's a leader, him and Chara are both good leaders. But guys like Toews, Richards, and Crosby are already better captains than Alfredsson and they are much younger. That's all.

By the way, I like Alfredsson. Don't take that as me ripping Alfredsson.

stempniaksen wrote:Does he really lead and set an example? Do his teammates actually look to him when their backs are up against the wall? There's no way of knowing for sure, but I'm led to think not always.

And Chara is talented, but he's not even top 5 in his position. At least we can prove he is no longer top 3 with the Norris candidates.

stempniaksen wrote:If I honestly have to point out the differences between Chara and Alfie and why Alfie is certainly a better leader than I'm not sure you know the game of hockey as well as I thought you did.

And about N4L's reasons for hating Spezza. I've probably debated him more than anyone in that regard over the last couple months so I'm sure I've had time to catch up. (I'm pointing out that when asked about why he doesn't think he's the guy to lead us he points at past history and Spezza's lack of winning any championships, ect).

Regardless though, everyone is entitled to their opinions and if the wanna take Chara over Alfie/Malkin that is there right.

hemlock wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Just because he's been the captain for 13 years or whatever it is, and all he has to show for it is 1 SCF. He plays hurt, fine, but that doesn't make him an awesome leader. I just don't get how he has been the longest serving captain in the NHL without having won it all during that span. He's a leader, him and Chara are both good leaders. But guys like Toews, Richards, and Crosby are already better captains than Alfredsson and they are much younger. That's all.

By the way, I like Alfredsson. Don't take that as me ripping Alfredsson.

Ok so, in order to be a good leader you have to win? Gotcha. Crosby is a better captain than Daniel Alfredsson? Seriously? For Real?

Credibility -1

hemlock wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:If I honestly have to point out the differences between Chara and Alfie and why Alfie is certainly a better leader than I'm not sure you know the game of hockey as well as I thought you did.

And about N4L's reasons for hating Spezza. I've probably debated him more than anyone in that regard over the last couple months so I'm sure I've had time to catch up. (I'm pointing out that when asked about why he doesn't think he's the guy to lead us he points at past history and Spezza's lack of winning any championships, ect).

Regardless though, everyone is entitled to their opinions and if the wanna take Chara over Alfie/Malkin that is there right.

Way to answer the question deflect! A pot shot at my hockey knowledge too no less. You made a blanket statement, and didn't qualify it, then come back with some Dung that you shouldn't have to defend your comments? Laughable.

Other than the fact that Alfredsson has taken his team to the SCF and Chara hasn't what differences are there that are so vast that I apparently am lacking hockey knowledge to not be seeing. Please, enlighten me.

stempniaksen wrote:

hemlock wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:If I honestly have to point out the differences between Chara and Alfie and why Alfie is certainly a better leader than I'm not sure you know the game of hockey as well as I thought you did.

And about N4L's reasons for hating Spezza. I've probably debated him more than anyone in that regard over the last couple months so I'm sure I've had time to catch up. (I'm pointing out that when asked about why he doesn't think he's the guy to lead us he points at past history and Spezza's lack of winning any championships, ect).

Regardless though, everyone is entitled to their opinions and if the wanna take Chara over Alfie/Malkin that is there right.

Way to answer the question deflect! A pot shot at my hockey knowledge too no less. You made a blanket statement, and didn't qualify it, then come back with some Dung that you shouldn't have to defend your comments? Laughable.

Other than the fact that Alfredsson has taken his team to the SCF and Chara hasn't what differences are there that are so vast that I apparently am lacking hockey knowledge to not be seeing. Please, enlighten me.

No pot shot intended, sorry if you took it that way.

Obviously people view Chara much differently than I do, but being the 'outsider' when it comes to opinions on hockey players is nothing new to me.

Let's just chalk this one down to a difference of opinion then.

Big Ev wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Just because he's been the captain for 13 years or whatever it is, and all he has to show for it is 1 SCF. He plays hurt, fine, but that doesn't make him an awesome leader. I just don't get how he has been the longest serving captain in the NHL without having won it all during that span. He's a leader, him and Chara are both good leaders. But guys like Toews, Richards, and Crosby are already better captains than Alfredsson and they are much younger. That's all.

By the way, I like Alfredsson. Don't take that as me ripping Alfredsson.

Ok so, in order to be a good leader you have to win? Gotcha. Crosby is a better captain than Daniel Alfredsson? Seriously? For Real?

Credibility -1

No, but winning a Cup in your 13 years of captaincy could really help prove that he is indeed a great leader. I'd say that 80% of teams would have traded Alfie by now.

With the awful group of wingers and no-name defense, leading his team to a Cup and a SCF, I think one could argue that Crosby is already a better leader than Alfie.

Credibility? This is an internet forum where people have their own opinions, for crying out loud. How does that make me any less "credible" than you are? You could argue that nobody is credible, we are just ordinary people talking hockey.

stempniaksen wrote:

hemlock wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:If I honestly have to point out the differences between Chara and Alfie and why Alfie is certainly a better leader than I'm not sure you know the game of hockey as well as I thought you did.

And about N4L's reasons for hating Spezza. I've probably debated him more than anyone in that regard over the last couple months so I'm sure I've had time to catch up. (I'm pointing out that when asked about why he doesn't think he's the guy to lead us he points at past history and Spezza's lack of winning any championships, ect).

Regardless though, everyone is entitled to their opinions and if the wanna take Chara over Alfie/Malkin that is there right.

Way to answer the question deflect! A pot shot at my hockey knowledge too no less. You made a blanket statement, and didn't qualify it, then come back with some Dung that you shouldn't have to defend your comments? Laughable.

Other than the fact that Alfredsson has taken his team to the SCF and Chara hasn't what differences are there that are so vast that I apparently am lacking hockey knowledge to not be seeing. Please, enlighten me.

No pot shot intended, sorry if you took it that way.

Obviously people view Chara much differently than I do, but being the 'outsider' when it comes to opinions on hockey players is nothing new to me.

Let's just chalk this one down to a difference of opinion then.

N4L wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

hemlock wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

Big Ev wrote:But Malkin isn't a soft player, he takes hits and dishes them out from time to time. He's also a player who elevates his game when he takes a big hit from an opposing player. He'll go into the dirty areas.

Chara's a great defencman and all, but he is not a winner.

Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner (and as usual it's not Chara).

N4L, I'd like to see you defend Chara for the exact same reasons you vilify Spezza.

Listen, chara is a spectacular defenceman. But when taking into account their ages along with how many times they've won on the biggest stage, and the way they performed once they reach that stage I take Malkin every time.

The guy is a top 3 Russian player, and is a top 5 player in the world no questions asked. His regular season dominance and strong playoffs prove that.

I'll give this a shot. N4L's biggest issue with Spezza is the fact that he believed that Spezza cannot or will not ever lead the Sens as a $7 million player. I'm inclined to agree since we haven't seen much of anything sustained over any reasonable amount of time that shows he could be that guy.

Chara on the other hand IS that guy for the Bruins. He's the captain and undisputed leader of that team.

Also, comparing a D-man to a forward just isn't fair. Chara contributes in ways Spezza never, ever could, all while playing in every situation, for more minutes a night. Sure, he'll never out point Spezza, but he brings intangibles that Spezza (not just him, but a lot of players) couldn't even dream about.

I fail to see this Chara isn't a winner argument. He didn't have any success with the Sens (play-off wise), but neither did Alfie then if you want to call a spade, a spade. By this argument, Raymond Bourque was a career loser until he broke through and won the Cup in his last NHL game? Nonsense.

Alfie led his team to the SCF for the first time on modern history. I fail to see any time that Chara has ever led his team anywhere other than a playoff spot.

Most of the Bruins/Senators playoff sucess has come in spite of Chara and not because of it.

And my point was never that Spezza is a better player (I would be foolish to argue that). My point was that N4L's biggest argument against Spezza for his entire career has been the fact that he has never won anything, and that it was hypocritical to not use the very same arguments against Chara.

Yes and no. Chara is a leader, works hard, and shows he wants to win. Spezza isnt a lot of that and really hasnt won anything being on a ton of teams that have been the favaorites and expected to win. Be it in The OHL, International, or in The AHL or NHL.