Ottawa Senators off-season talk

trying to play devil's advocate here. Murray himself at the
gm meetings said he wants to involve spezza more in the future decisions
of the franchise, much like phillips and alfie (no mention of
fisher...?).

That could be:
a) a ploy to convince spezza to stay
b) murray really means this
c) masking the truth to make it seem he's more valuable for bigger trade return

Michallica wrote:trying to play devil's advocate here. Murray himself at the
gm meetings said he wants to involve spezza more in the future decisions
of the franchise, much like phillips and alfie (no mention of
fisher...?).

That could be:
a) a ploy to convince spezza to stay
b) murray really means this
c) masking the truth to make it seem he's more valuable for bigger trade return

A ton of reasons to say that and I think he means it too. How can you not want your 7 million dollar player to not be more involved.

*shrug* Chris Stevenson's article spins a different tale: http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/columnists/chris_stevenson/2010/06/02/14234251.html

And Spezza outside of Alfredsson are the only forwards we got that could potentially change the outcome of a game on their own except perhaps the Ruutu-Kelly-Neil who always do what they're paid to do and usually get rewarded for it.

And just like last year we still don't know who our #1 goalie is.

Spezza is one of the few constants we have upfront, high-reward/high-risk play. He is what he is and I'd take that over the rest of the question marks in our forward lineup. so no I don't think our offence is 'OK' either.

He's unfortuneately the fans' and media whipping boy for when things go bad but they cheer him when he makes a great play. Unfortuneately being a #1 centre in the NHL brings certain expectations and Spezza can't meet all of them.

N4L wrote:

Michallica wrote:trying to play devil's advocate here. Murray himself at the
gm meetings said he wants to involve spezza more in the future decisions
of the franchise, much like phillips and alfie (no mention of
fisher...?).

That could be:
a) a ploy to convince spezza to stay
b) murray really means this
c) masking the truth to make it seem he's more valuable for bigger trade return

A ton of reasons to say that and I think he means it too. How can you not want your 7 million dollar player to not be more involved.

Yes, say this to a person who wants out of the team....if its something like that, he would have said it a while back. Wasn't he one of the ppl Melnyk contacted when they were in a slump? I think that says enough...what Murray is saying is what I think we all already knew.

It's more then that. Spezza hasnt been even close to as productive as he was his first 4 years in The NHL over the last 2. He has awful work habits on the ice and quits on plays, that's unaccpetable.

He might get unfair treatment, I wont deny that but he doesnt do himself any favours on or off the ice. He still makes rookie mistakes that should have come out of his game long ago and doesnt work nearly hard enough to be a game changer against better compition.

That give away in game 4 is a perfect example of what is inexcusable from a 1st line center. That's the play that sticks out for me and a lot of other people when talking about Spezza. It's not the fact he gave the puck away (that comes with the territory) but it was at the absolutely worst spot on the ice, to the worst person, and the worst possible time. That was the series right there on that play.

Michallica wrote:

N4L wrote:

Michallica wrote:trying to play devil's advocate here. Murray himself at the
gm meetings said he wants to involve spezza more in the future decisions
of the franchise, much like phillips and alfie (no mention of
fisher...?).

That could be:
a) a ploy to convince spezza to stay
b) murray really means this
c) masking the truth to make it seem he's more valuable for bigger trade return

A ton of reasons to say that and I think he means it too. How can you not want your 7 million dollar player to not be more involved.

Yes, say this to a person who wants out of the team....if its something like that, he would have said it a while back. Wasn't he one of the ppl Melnyk contacted when they were in a slump? I think that says enough...what Murray is saying is what I think we all already knew.

Yup, I agree. You can garentee Murray is going to say to Spezza "make your choice now because if you are here after Jult 1st you are here for the next 5 years. Im not trading you"

N4L wrote:It's more then that. Spezza hasnt been even close to as productive as he was his first 4 years in The NHL over the last 2. He has awful work habits on the ice and quits on plays, that's unaccpetable.

We haven't exactly had stellar coaching in Ottawa in recent years. Clouston is the first real coach in a long time that actually seems to coach, make in-game adjustments and hold players accountable.

Our past coaches pretty much let Spezza and co. do whatever they wanted while they just pretended to look busy behind the bench.

It's no surprise that a lazy bum like Heatley wanted out not long after we got a coach that called him out on his half-assed play.

N4L wrote:
He might get unfair treatment, I wont deny that but he doesnt do himself any favours on or off the ice. He still makes rookie mistakes that should have come out of his game long ago and doesnt work nearly hard enough to be a game changer against better compition.

Spezza only get Dung on for his mistakes. His play in the second half of the season is a big reason why we even made the playoffs and he possibly helped Regin get his game to another level too.

But no that giveaway in game 4 is excuseable

If ONE bad giveaway by ONE player is enough to sink an entire TEAM then the team sucks, plain and simple. Players mess up all the time and winning teams find a way to win anyway.

N4L wrote:
Yup, I agree. You can garentee Murray is going to say to Spezza "make your choice now because if you are here after Jult 1st you are here for the next 5 years. Im not trading you"

I would hope they do that given his status with the team.

"Are you in for real 110% or are you out ? Now's the time to decide."

N4L wrote:It's more then that. Spezza hasnt been even close to as productive as he was his first 4 years in The NHL over the last 2. He has awful work habits on the ice and quits on plays, that's unaccpetable.

He might get unfair treatment, I wont deny that but he doesnt do himself any favours on or off the ice. He still makes rookie mistakes that should have come out of his game long ago and doesnt work nearly hard enough to be a game changer against better compition.

That give away in game 4 is a perfect example of what is inexcusable from a 1st line center. That's the play that sticks out for me and a lot of other people when talking about Spezza. It's not the fact he gave the puck away (that comes with the territory) but it was at the absolutely worst spot on the ice, to the worst person, and the worst possible time. That was the series right there on that play.

That, and the fact that there was no back check from his part at all.....it was volchenkov trying to get it back, but spezz kinda made half-assed strides. That's what really irked me

Hoags wrote:

N4L wrote:It's more then that. Spezza hasnt been even close to as productive as he was his first 4 years in The NHL over the last 2. He has awful work habits on the ice and quits on plays, that's unaccpetable.

We haven't exactly had stellar coaching in Ottawa in recent years. Clouston is the first real coach in a long time that actually seems to coach, make in-game adjustments and hold players accountable.

Our past coaches pretty much let Spezza and co. do whatever they wanted while they just pretended to look busy behind the bench.

It's no surprise that a lazy bum like Heatley wanted out not long after we got a coach that called him out on his half-assed play.

N4L wrote:
Yup, I agree. You can garentee Murray is going to say to Spezza "make your choice now because if you are here after Jult 1st you are here for the next 5 years. Im not trading you"

I would hope they do that given his status with the team.

"Are you in for real 110% or are you out ? Now's the time to decide."

A big YUP to that one. They have Spezza just enough rope to hang himself this year and I think he did. His playoffs were concerning to say the least. He might have put up 7 points but he was awful and besides being out classed, he didnt work nearly hard enough to even give himself a chance. Like i said, he did himself no favours.

Michallica wrote:
That, and the fact that there was no back check from his part at all.....it was volchenkov trying to get it back, but spezz kinda made half-assed strides. That's what really irked me

That irked everyone. I don't really blame people for booing him. Seeing the kind of guys competing now, how could anyone defend Spezza.

That said, I think he's due to have a heck of a year next year, I'm not really in favour of moving him unless it's for one of the proposed trades with Dallas or...actually I can't think of anyone else. Florida is full of failures, loafers (Horton) and just generally bad players, so pass there. Atlanta has...some pieces, but nothing that would make me jump for joy except Bogosian.

Nasvhille could work, but only if we can have Weber - which is quite a laugh.

So no, end of the day we're better off keeping him and getting another talented center either through draft or through trade of through free agency. Certainly none of the proposals I've heard - with the exception of a huge Dallas blockbuster - have enticed me in the least.

Hoags wrote:I would hope they do that given his status with the team.

"Are you in for real 110% or are you out ? Now's the time to decide."

100% agree - this is the most important decision in a long time.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Hoags wrote:I would hope they do that given his status with the team.

"Are you in for real 110% or are you out ? Now's the time to decide."

100% agree - this is the most important decision in a long time.

We should probably go back a few posts and see who said that...

N4L wrote:A big YUP to that one. They have Spezza just enough rope to hang himself this year and I think he did. His playoffs were concerning to say the least. He might have put up 7 points but he was awful and besides being out classed, he didnt work nearly hard enough to even give himself a chance. Like i said, he did himself no favours.

Spezza was guilty of trying too hard and trying to do too much by himself many times as well. Murray even said at one point I think.

Like I added above, if we lose a playoff series due to a giveaway by Spezza then we either trade Spezza or smack the rest of the team for giving up when one of the players makes a bad mistake.

If San Jose can win a series with Boyle scoring on his own net in overtime we should be able to win a series with a bad giveaway from Spezza.

Dung happens and teams have to come together and find a way to win when things go bad.

Hoags wrote:

N4L wrote:A big YUP to that one. They have Spezza just enough rope to hang himself this year and I think he did. His playoffs were concerning to say the least. He might have put up 7 points but he was awful and besides being out classed, he didnt work nearly hard enough to even give himself a chance. Like i said, he did himself no favours.

Spezza was guilty of trying too hard and trying to do too much by himself many times as well. Murray even said at one point I think.

Like I added above, if we lose a playoff series due to a giveaway by Spezza then we either trade Spezza or smack the rest of the team for giving up when one of the players makes a bad mistake.

If San Jose can win a series with Boyle scoring on his own net in overtime we should be able to win a series with a bad giveaway from Spezza.

Dung happens and teams have to come together and find a way to win when things go bad.

I agree with a ton of that but what Boyle did wasnt a mental mistake, Dung happens. It was awful but that is something a team can rally around as wierd as that is, seems they did as well. What Spezza did was immature and irresponsible, it's tough for guys to actually over come that. There are sooooo many reasons why that was the absolute worst time to make that mistake and there was no excuse why he made it.

The Sens themselves didnt give up though, they went into Pitts to play a game no one thought they had a shot of winning (myself included) and played hard to bring it back to Ottawa. It didnt work out in the end but those guys did everything possible to win game 6 and that series, they just didnt have it in them at that point.

Point is, The Sens couldnt depend on Spezza to make the right plays when it mattered and when you have a guy like that in his role, it's tough to overcome because you have to be able to lean on him. When Spezza is leaned on, he tips over. Spezza has to be a guy that can do the job and do it well and he really hasnt been.

Hoags wrote:

N4L wrote:A big YUP to that one. They have Spezza just enough rope to hang himself this year and I think he did. His playoffs were concerning to say the least. He might have put up 7 points but he was awful and besides being out classed, he didnt work nearly hard enough to even give himself a chance. Like i said, he did himself no favours.

Spezza was guilty of trying too hard and trying to do too much by himself many times as well. Murray even said at one point I think.

Like I added above, if we lose a playoff series due to a giveaway by Spezza then we either trade Spezza or smack the rest of the team for giving up when one of the players makes a bad mistake.

If San Jose can win a series with Boyle scoring on his own net in overtime we should be able to win a series with a bad giveaway from Spezza.

Dung happens and teams have to come together and find a way to win when things go bad.

Not in Ottawa. It's the finger-pointing capital of the World!

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Hoags wrote:

N4L wrote:A big YUP to that one. They have Spezza just enough rope to hang himself this year and I think he did. His playoffs were concerning to say the least. He might have put up 7 points but he was awful and besides being out classed, he didnt work nearly hard enough to even give himself a chance. Like i said, he did himself no favours.

Spezza was guilty of trying too hard and trying to do too much by himself many times as well. Murray even said at one point I think.

Like I added above, if we lose a playoff series due to a giveaway by Spezza then we either trade Spezza or smack the rest of the team for giving up when one of the players makes a bad mistake.

If San Jose can win a series with Boyle scoring on his own net in overtime we should be able to win a series with a bad giveaway from Spezza.

Dung happens and teams have to come together and find a way to win when things go bad.

Not in Ottawa. It's the finger-pointing capital of the World!

Haha, that's why I put that smiley in, I realize it now.

N4L wrote:
I agree with a ton of that but what Boyle did wasnt a mental mistake, Dung happens. It was awful but that is something a team can rally around as wierd as that is, seems they did as well. What Spezza did was immature and irresponsible, it's tough for guys to actually over come that. There are sooooo many reasons why that was the absolute worst time to make that mistake and there was no excuse why he made it.

I'm not sure the type of mistake has any meaning, to me it's no different than taking a stupid penalty with 5-minutes to go in a 1 goal game and those happen quite often.

Lots of teams make stupid, immature mistakes at bad times and they still rally and find a way to win. That's what seperates the playoff winners from the losers.