Ottawa Senators off-season talk

SpezDispenser wrote:The player formerly knows as Fat Penner (now known as Plump Penner) is a decent goal scorer, but he lacks the drive to park himself in front of the net like a Holmstrom or a Byfuglien and he's soooo slow that he can't really be a part of a speed attack. Nor does he have the hands to make others around him better.

Someone suggested that Smid was on par with Z. Michalek and I don't agree. Michalek is better at moving the puck (Smid is average at puck-,moving), Michalek is better positionally in that he can block shots and not take himself out of the play. I might be persuaded that Smid is a harder hitter, but otherwise the comparison isn't really there for me.

Cogliano...I never have really liked him to be honest. Tiny little guy who is as streaky as anyone we have - which is amazing considering we have the great Fisher/Kovalev/Michalek trio.

That's awesome. It's soo true. Hopefully Michalek shakes it off better than Fisher did...or didn't....

SpezDispenser wrote:The player formerly knows as Fat Penner (now known as Plump Penner) is a decent goal scorer, but he lacks the drive to park himself in front of the net like a Holmstrom or a Byfuglien and he's soooo slow that he can't really be a part of a speed attack. Nor does he have the hands to make others around him better.

Someone suggested that Smid was on par with Z. Michalek and I don't agree. Michalek is better at moving the puck (Smid is average at puck-,moving), Michalek is better positionally in that he can block shots and not take himself out of the play. I might be persuaded that Smid is a harder hitter, but otherwise the comparison isn't really there for me.

Cogliano...I never have really liked him to be honest. Tiny little guy who is as streaky as anyone we have - which is amazing considering we have the great Fisher/Kovalev/Michalek trio.

As for everything else here, my heart is definitely set on picking up Z. Michalek, or little Z as we'd call him. I think he's perfect for us and exactly what we need and are looking for. The only problem I see is him not wanting to leave Phoenix, why would he? The only way he might is if they get moved to Winnipeg. Otherwise I don't see the point of him leaving the place where he was drafted.

I don't know much about Smid, but I don't hear that much about him either and that's probably not a good sign.

Cogliano would be the second coming of Vermette, passola.

SensGirl11 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:The player formerly knows as Fat Penner (now known as Plump Penner) is a decent goal scorer, but he lacks the drive to park himself in front of the net like a Holmstrom or a Byfuglien and he's soooo slow that he can't really be a part of a speed attack. Nor does he have the hands to make others around him better.

Someone suggested that Smid was on par with Z. Michalek and I don't agree. Michalek is better at moving the puck (Smid is average at puck-,moving), Michalek is better positionally in that he can block shots and not take himself out of the play. I might be persuaded that Smid is a harder hitter, but otherwise the comparison isn't really there for me.

Cogliano...I never have really liked him to be honest. Tiny little guy who is as streaky as anyone we have - which is amazing considering we have the great Fisher/Kovalev/Michalek trio.

As for everything else here, my heart is definitely set on picking up Z. Michalek, or little Z as we'd call him. I think he's perfect for us and exactly what we need and are looking for. The only problem I see is him not wanting to leave Phoenix, why would he? The only way he might is if they get moved to Winnipeg. Otherwise I don't see the point of him leaving the place where he was drafted.

I don't know much about Smid, but I don't hear that much about him either and that's probably not a good sign.

Cogliano would be the second coming of Vermette, passola.

from everything i've read from analysts the word out there is that he isn't goin back to pheonix. so open market it is.
also i'd like to point out that during the olympics they were doing a special(on CTV or TSN i think) on all the different countries and their hockey teams and one thing that stuck with me is how M Michalek expressed how happy he was for him and his brother to be playing together. did they like it much?
i think we have a seriously good chance of picking him up on the 1st if we haven't picked campbell up before.

We should try to sign Peter Delmas for some goaltending depth. Avs are letting him go.

Edit: Nevermind, he's re-entering the draft. I'm dumb.

SpezDispenser wrote:The player formerly knows as Fat Penner (now known as Plump Penner) is a decent goal scorer, but he lacks the drive to park himself in front of the net like a Holmstrom or a Byfuglien and he's soooo slow that he can't really be a part of a speed attack. Nor does he have the hands to make others around him better.

Someone suggested that Smid was on par with Z. Michalek and I don't agree. Michalek is better at moving the puck (Smid is average at puck-,moving), Michalek is better positionally in that he can block shots and not take himself out of the play. I might be persuaded that Smid is a harder hitter, but otherwise the comparison isn't really there for me.

Cogliano...I never have really liked him to be honest. Tiny little guy who is as streaky as anyone we have - which is amazing considering we have the great Fisher/Kovalev/Michalek trio.

I like both Smid and Cog's as they are low risk high reward type of players if you could pick them up and sign for a reasonable price. Cogs's brings an element of speed and skill but is more suited for the wing than Center. His biggest knock is he sucks on faceoffs. Smid is coming around in Edmonton as an all around dman. If he is paired with the right guy he would blossom. I have feeling that this year will be a break out year for both guys.

The Montagoose wrote:
I like both Smid and Cog's as they are low risk high reward type of players if you could pick them up and sign for a reasonable price. Cogs's brings an element of speed and skill but is more suited for the wing than Center. His biggest knock is he sucks on faceoffs. Smid is coming around in Edmonton as an all around dman. If he is paired with the right guy he would blossom. I have feeling that this year will be a break out year for both guys.

Yeah, I actually like Smid, I'm just not sure he's a good comparable for Z.Michalek. Cogliano's been puzzling for a year and a half, but he's really young. You might be right about him breaking out.

SpezDispenser wrote:

The Montagoose wrote:
I like both Smid and Cog's as they are low risk high reward type of players if you could pick them up and sign for a reasonable price. Cogs's brings an element of speed and skill but is more suited for the wing than Center. His biggest knock is he sucks on faceoffs. Smid is coming around in Edmonton as an all around dman. If he is paired with the right guy he would blossom. I have feeling that this year will be a break out year for both guys.

Yeah, I actually like Smid, I'm just not sure he's a good comparable for Z.Michalek. Cogliano's been puzzling for a year and a half, but he's really young. You might be right about him breaking out.

I'd take cogs over shannon any day.

Ok, but so would everyone, but he's also not making 700K or whatever it is Shannon makes.

The Montagoose wrote:
I'd take cogs over shannon any day.

Definitely. Cogliano is 22 to Shannon's 26, he's hit 20+ goals in 2 of his first three years, he's probably as fast or faster than Shannon and he's got legitimate top 6 potential.

SpezDispenser wrote:

The Montagoose wrote:
I'd take cogs over shannon any day.

Definitely. Cogliano is 22 to Shannon's 26, he's hit 20+ goals in 2 of his first three years, he's probably as fast or faster than Shannon and he's got legitimate top 6 potential.

I've seen this kid play and boy can he skate like the wind. He is at that point in his career with Edmonton that if they decide to keep him he needs to step up. If they move him its because they feel he doesnt fit into their plans. I was disappointed that Murray couldnt get him last year. Hopefully maybe this off season.

The Montagoose wrote:
I've seen this kid play and boy can he skate like the wind. He is at that point in his career with Edmonton that if they decide to keep him he needs to step up. If they move him its because they feel he doesnt fit into their plans. I was disappointed that Murray couldnt get him last year. Hopefully maybe this off season.

Surely you like Michalek more though?

SpezDispenser wrote:

The Montagoose wrote:
I've seen this kid play and boy can he skate like the wind. He is at that point in his career with Edmonton that if they decide to keep him he needs to step up. If they move him its because they feel he doesnt fit into their plans. I was disappointed that Murray couldnt get him last year. Hopefully maybe this off season.

Surely you like Michalek more though?

Cogliano + Penner + Smid is way better than just Michalek.

I'll be happy if all Murray accomplishes this off season is draft a stud forward prospect and replaces Volchenkov with Z. Michalek.

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

The Montagoose wrote:
I've seen this kid play and boy can he skate like the wind. He is at that point in his career with Edmonton that if they decide to keep him he needs to step up. If they move him its because they feel he doesnt fit into their plans. I was disappointed that Murray couldnt get him last year. Hopefully maybe this off season.

Surely you like Michalek more though?

Cogliano + Penner + Smid is way better than just Michalek.

I like Michalek and I think Murray could have gotten him in another deal some how if he really was interested. The Edmonton deal was by far the best out there and who knows what Murray could have gotten if he sat on Heatley a little longer and Heatley played like he did i SJ.

Big Ev wrote:
Cogliano + Penner + Smid is way better than just Michalek.

Plus 3.5 million in cap space, close to a Z.Michalek - which couldn't have been done without Heatley's cap hit off the books.

So M.Michalek and Z.Michalek for Dany Heatley. That's the best we could have done IMO.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Big Ev wrote:
Cogliano + Penner + Smid is way better than just Michalek.

Plus 3.5 million in cap space, close to a Z.Michalek - which couldn't have been done without Heatley's cap hit off the books.

So M.Michalek and Z.Michalek for Dany Heatley. That's the best we could have done IMO.

But if Heatley didn't ask to be traded then Melnyk would not have insisted on getting Kovalev, so there's $5M. Plus where do you get $3.5M? For two years we have a cap hit of $7.333M for the two players we got in return.

You really can't ever stop this what if. Heatley didn't want to play here any more, and he didn't want to go to Edmonton. The only other option was San Jose and they raped us. They made us take on Cheechoo's contract ($3M for, essentially, a non-roster player) and we got a (potential) bargain in Michalek. If Michalek had stayed healthy, who knows what he could have accomplished, but I don't think he would have gotten anywhere near 40 goals. If the deal had been Heatley for Michalek it would not have been equal in terms of talent, but we'd be ahead the $3.5M you suggested. I can't quantify that, really, but I'll try. Let's say that Michalek could have gotten 25 goals, then we'd need someone who could score 15 more goals than, say, Shannon, for $3.5M. Doable? Probably.

So, Heatley for Michalek would have been a good deal, even great, considering the circumstances. The $3Mx2 anchor, though, swings this deal back into the "we got raped" territory.

And *that* is why I'll never forgive Heatley, never wish him the best, always get a little smile when he fails, never cheer for him even when playing for Team Canada, etc, etc, etc.

I think it is pretty safe to say with the rumours about Spezza, A-Train moving on, and all the new prospects coming into the sytem that The Sens may very well be a very different looking team next year.

IMO, what Murray has done is exactly what is needed to build the contender that people in Ottawa want again, the same way it was built before, from the blueline out and add in Lehner. A couple years of being competitive while the young kids learn is what this team turly needs.

I keep reading that Volchenkov turned down 5 million for 4 years and, according to senschirp, 5 million for 5 years may have done the deal.

Either way, 5 million is too much. Even for 1 year. On the other hand, what about 4.25 - 4.5 for 5 years? Not that I would do it, but how about you guys?