PLAYOFF GAME DAY: Game 6: Pittsburgh Penguins (3) @ Ottawa Senators (2) - 7:00pm ET - Sat. Apr. 24th, 2010

I don't know, even if Murray does decide to trade Spezza, I don't fully trust Murray's ability to trade (I do like the Cuillen trade though). Murray is mainly a drafter and a rebuilder, but a good dealer? I really don't know what he would get in return for Spezza.

N4L wrote:A solution for a number 1 center will eventually come, next year might be kind of thin but there will eventually be options in the years coming. Also, I wouldnt count on this nor should anyone but Regin does have the potential to a very good 2nd line center, a border line number 1.

Also, just because you have Atlanta's pick doesnt mean Ottawa cant use theirs to get a guy like Johansen, Skinner, or McFarland. Look what Murray did with his first rounders in 03, in one swoop he put together perhaps the best young line in the game today.

I think if Murray has a couple guys targeted and thinks he can replicate that, why not deal Spezza? Sure, next year things might look a little bleek up the middle with no true number 1 guy (debatable if we have a true number 1 now) but there are always options.

I really believe there is a great opportunity for Ottawa coming up to put themselves ahead of the rest of the east in the near future, but it depends on what they do with Spezza.

Number 1 centres don't just spring out of thin air. We've had two in this franchise's modern history.

Cullen is not a #1, Fisher is barely a #2, Regin is good but asking him to play way more minutes against better checkers is too much for him as a sophomore, and anyway his production skyrocketed when he started playing with Spezza (he was still only playing 15 minutes a night in the first 3 games of the playoffs; I didn't check since then), Grant is the longest of long-shots and then there's no one else in the organization.

Johansen will be gone before our pick. I can't believe you're suggesting McFarland given your disdain for Spezza, and anyway both he and Skinner are far more likely to play wing in the NHL.

Murray did yeoman's work in 2003 and 2008 but those two drafts are also the two best and deepest in recent history. 2010 and 2011 are not perceived to be anywhere remotely on the same level, and I'm not sure I want to bank on the off-chance that they are. Now, there's some good talent, but no centres after Seguin look like they could be the focal point of an offence, which is what we desperately need with Alfredsson in the twilight of his career. Burmistrov and Johansen are also probably late bloomers.

I agree that our centre depth would be bleak next season, and so I'm not sure why you're suggesting we'd run away with the NE division. And I'm still unconvinced by our ability to replace him - forgive me for not leaping at "it'll eventually come" - because I think you over-estimate the amount of available talent out there that's close to or superior to Spezza.

I think people over estimate what kind of tallent Spezza has. IMO Spezza is a lot easier to replace then what people are saying. With a good GM like we have, Murray will find a way to deal with the loss of Spezza while at the same time building this team for the future. I have used Boston as the example for a long time but they vut bait when they KNEW they couldnt win with Thornton. Im not going to get started on the actual trade but the point was the got rid of him and I think those reasons have become clear... the same reasons why Ottawa should get rid of Spezza.

Also, at the time, the 2003 entry draft was supposed to be "weak" as well, yet Murray somehow found a way to pull out Getzlaf and Perry. I have no doubts that this team will eventually be on top of The East with the defense it will eventually have but they need some forward prospects to go along with them. I think Skinner would be a very logical and good step in that direction. You're right about McFarland though, I probably shouldnt be putting him in there and i dont know why I started to. Johansen can def be had with a top 10 pick though, wouldnt be mad about that at all.

I also like Grant very much, he could def be a number 2 center someday.

"Leave it to Murray" is IMO kind of deflating. Obviously, that's what we're going to have to do anyway until one of us gets the GM job the season after next.

I want to see actual plans on how to replace Spezza. Like him or not, he's playing big minutes against teams' top checkers and he's far more productive than every player on the team except Alfie. I think it's bogus to say he doesn't make this team better, even if it isn't by as big of a margin as it should be.

That said, I think for reasons you've listed his value is not all that high, so I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out deals that are fair, meet the other team's needs, and improve our centre situation over what it is now. IMO goal-tending could be fixed but an improvement's not going to do much if we can't score. Defence is our point of strength future-wise and it's decent enough now (when everyone's healthy) so I don't see the need to try to parlay Spezza into a #1 defenceman.

Our wings are not incredible, but Alfie, Kovalev, Michalek, Foligno, Regin (on a part-time basis), Cullen (ditto), Butler, Petersson, Silfverberg, Caporusso, Condra, Costello, Cowick, Greening etc. it's a stronger point than our centre depth is. We could just as soon keep Spezza and draft a winger in the first round to improve that situation.

So, I'm not opposed to trading Spezza but it has to be a deal that makes us better. IMO, that means we have to get better at the centre slot. I've listed the guys who IMO I think could adequately replace/exceed Spezza, though I admit it's more concerned with the long-term than the short-term.

Tell me how we're going to get any one of those players, or tell me of somebody I've forgotten who we could also realistically acquire.

EDIT: Granted, you've done that with Johansen but I'm not entirely satisfied with that response.

I dont think you replace Spezza next year, I think that would have to be done by commity. You look at teams like Nashville, Pheonix, Buffalo, Boston, even NJ to a lesser extent, a solid team will be able to win in The NHL despite having a true number 1 center. Now, I think you need a number 1 guy to win the cup for sure, but I dont think there is anyway in hell Spezza is a guy that is a number 1 center on a cup winning team.

Only think I can think of as a repalcement within the next few years is waiting it out for Richards but I digress.

I think the focus has to be on building a new core which seems to be more then anyone in Ottawa could have ever expected and Im excitted for that. I think at least one person, be it Fisher or Spezza (hopefully) needs to be dealt from that core and shake things up and start to focus on the youth.

I think another place to look for a trade is LA. If they think they are close and they do need some more depth up the middle, Spezza might be an option for them. Obviosuly Schenn would have to be coming the other way who defently has the potential to be a number 1 center in The NHL and would fit right in with The Sens young core.

If they offered Moeller, Schenn, and a 1st for Spezza that would be a perfect deal for Ottawa IMO.

Brassard and Filatov for Spezza would be another deal I think would solve some issues people had.

Getting Wilson out of Nashville I think is a real possibility as well.

By the sounds of things from sportsnet to TSN, it sounds as if Murray is unhappy with a lot of what went on. I dont blame him because he did everything possible for this team to have a chance to win and my guess, he feels like someone let him and the team down. It was a great season overall, but I think Murray makes a big move before the draft and it's either Fisher or Spezza.

Big Ev wrote:I don't know, even if Murray does decide to trade Spezza, I don't fully trust Murray's ability to trade (I do like the Cuillen trade though). Murray is mainly a drafter and a rebuilder, but a good dealer? I really don't know what he would get in return for Spezza.

I second that last sentence, but I do so because of the current state of the league, with the cap and the premium placed on ELC players. Murray's trade resume in Ottawa is glistening Imo. The only trade I have questioned was the Campoli trade, but Camper put my doubts to bed (for the time being, at least) in this last series---particularly in game 6.

N4L wrote:I dont think you replace Spezza next year, I think that would have to be done by commity. You look at teams like Nashville, Pheonix, Buffalo, Boston, even NJ to a lesser extent, a solid team will be able to win in The NHL despite having a true number 1 center. Now, I think you need a number 1 guy to win the cup for sure, but I dont think there is anyway in hell Spezza is a guy that is a number 1 center on a cup winning team.

Only think I can think of as a repalcement within the next few years is waiting it out for Richards but I digress.

I think the focus has to be on building a new core which seems to be more then anyone in Ottawa could have ever expected and Im excitted for that. I think at least one person, be it Fisher or Spezza (hopefully) needs to be dealt from that core and shake things up and start to focus on the youth.

Eh, Nashville had Legwand and Arnott but still felt they needed a guy like Colin Wilson. Buffalo was at its best when Drury and Briere were at their best. Boston has sick centre depth with Savard, Krejci and Bergeron.

It's also interesting to note that all the teams you listed have absolute all-world superstar goalies. Rinne/Ellis (OK maybe they aren't quite super-stars), Bryzgalov, Miller, Rask/Thomas and Brodeur.

The new core is good, but with the exception of Regin, Michalek and Foligno it's almost all on the back-end. Spezza is young enough to be around and effective when Cowen, Wiercioch, Karlsson, Lehner etc. are on the roster.

N4L wrote:I think another place to look for a trade is LA. If they think they are close and they do need some more depth up the middle, Spezza might be an option for them. Obviosuly Schenn would have to be coming the other way who defently has the potential to be a number 1 center in The NHL and would fit right in with The Sens young core.

If they offered Moeller, Schenn, and a 1st for Spezza that would be a perfect deal for Ottawa IMO.

Brassard and Filatov for Spezza would be another deal I think would solve some issues people had.

Getting Wilson out of Nashville I think is a real possibility as well.

The Kings don't really have the cap-space to take on Spezza when Doughty's going to have to be re-upped the off-season after this one. In Nashville, they just don't have the money. I'm also not convinced Schenn or Wilson are #1 centres, either; I think in an ideal world they're #2s to fancier, more skilled #1s.

I said before that Columbus might be a fit - we're not going to get Nash or Voracek but Brassard, Filatov and the 1st are nice assets. Are they willing to part with them, though? And are we convinced Filatov will come back and that he's willing to put in the necessary work to stay in the NHL? The first would not nab a centre - it's in the Fowler/Gudbranson/Gormley range, unless you want to take a chance on Connolly who looks like the #3 forward in the draft but also an injury risk. Brassard is a centre but for whatever reason he regressed quite a bit this season.

Anyway, I doubt Melnyk wants to make his team any worse in the short-term, which all of these deals would appear to do.

It's tough.

Which is why I think Spezza is going to stay.

I think the right fit is Atanta personally.

N4L wrote:By the sounds of things from sportsnet to TSN, it sounds as if Murray is unhappy with a lot of what went on. I dont blame him because he did everything possible for this team to have a chance to win and my guess, he feels like someone let him and the team down. It was a great season overall, but I think Murray makes a big move before the draft and it's either Fisher or Spezza.

What I heard is that there could be friction between Murray and Clouston because Murray has a $3.5M #1 goalie (Leclaire) who was not given a fair shake in the season and thus may not have been ready when he was thrown in to the playoffs in game 5 and 6, despite playing very well under those circumstances.

Meh, tough to buy that because Elliott went on a 9 game winning streak then another stretch where he was unbeatable. I think that's BS personally and I think Murray and Clouston are on the same page in terms of most things.

Personally, I think Murray is questioning if Clouston, himself, or anyone can get Spezza to turn into the player he potentially can be. He was the only guy in the playoffs besides Elliott people can look at and go, wow, he was dissapointing.

BUT, to your point Murray did say they handled Leclaire about as poorly as you can handle a goaltender this year. I think he is defnetly going to be the number 1 next year and be able to carry The Sens forward for a few years.

In terms of pure talent, I think Granlund is potentially a N1 if youd evelop him the right way. Can definitely be had in the 10-15 range.

Dash wrote:

N4L wrote:By the sounds of things from sportsnet to TSN, it sounds as if Murray is unhappy with a lot of what went on. I dont blame him because he did everything possible for this team to have a chance to win and my guess, he feels like someone let him and the team down. It was a great season overall, but I think Murray makes a big move before the draft and it's either Fisher or Spezza.

What I heard is that there could be friction between Murray and Clouston because Murray has a $3.5M #1 goalie (Leclaire) who was not given a fair shake in the season and thus may not have been ready when he was thrown in to the playoffs in game 5 and 6, despite playing very well under those circumstances.

That sounds like a load of horse Dung.

Ya, I dont think there is anything to really worry about with Clouston and Murray. MAYBE Murray questions why the hell he kept putting Spezza out there against Crosby, a lot of people questioned that though.

marakh wrote:In terms of pure talent, I think Granlund is potentially a N1 if youd evelop him the right way. Can definitely be had in the 10-15 range.

I honestly dont know enough about him to even form an opinion.

Yeah, hard to believe that. Cory Clouston has basically saved BM's job, if anything he should kiss his Donkey.