Bryan Murray Vs Dany Heatley: Who Blinks First?

Has anyone blinked yet?

SeawaySensFan wrote:Has anyone blinked yet?

no but I farted.

I agree with the take on Lee as well - although, I'm of the opinion that he'll surprise us all.

If he does surprise it isnt a bad thing and thats just one more young D man we have in Ottawa.

N4L wrote:

cas wrote:

N4L wrote:I like Winchester as well, yu could really see his game coming along last year whether he was on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th line. He was getting his chances, getting more confident, and getting more involved form all angles.

There wasnt a more imporved player on The Sens last year then Winchester.

His vision is really impressive. He found the likes of Kelly, Ruutu, Donovan, Neil, Schubert, et al in prime scoring opportunities. If he was playing with someone who could put the puck in the net, he'd have had an extra 5-10 points in just the last month and a half of the season.

As being the most improved, I would agree, but I would argue (and I know you would argue the contrary) that Lee was also one of the most improved players last season. Once he came back from Bingo, he took this Jason Smith style of defense and started to punish incoming forwards a whole lot more.

You saw glimpses from Lee as opposed to Winchester, where you saw his game improve overall.

Lee absolutly must become a more physical defenseman, that is the only way he will become a a fixture on any NHL team. He doesnt have the vision or shot to be a legit offensive threat, but he most certainly has the size and skating ability to be a solid defender. His mind set has to change along with his game, hopefully he does it.

Glad to see other people appreciating Winchester, who, as I have said for months now, simply makes every line he is ever on better, period.

Scratch one mini-project / tantrum-inducing subject off my list. Now, if I can just get you guys on board with Picard, the other undeserved whipping boy from last year, I'll have fewer things to curse under my breath about as I roam about the site...

I dont whip Picard, I actually just said I put him on the same level and Meszaros in the other thread.

N4L wrote:I dont whip Picard, I actually just said I put him on the same level and Meszaros in the other thread.

You're about 1 of 4 sensible people here who don't habitually bash him. :___:

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:

cas wrote:

N4L wrote:I like Winchester as well, yu could really see his game coming along last year whether he was on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th line. He was getting his chances, getting more confident, and getting more involved form all angles.

There wasnt a more imporved player on The Sens last year then Winchester.

His vision is really impressive. He found the likes of Kelly, Ruutu, Donovan, Neil, Schubert, et al in prime scoring opportunities. If he was playing with someone who could put the puck in the net, he'd have had an extra 5-10 points in just the last month and a half of the season.

As being the most improved, I would agree, but I would argue (and I know you would argue the contrary) that Lee was also one of the most improved players last season. Once he came back from Bingo, he took this Jason Smith style of defense and started to punish incoming forwards a whole lot more.

You saw glimpses from Lee as opposed to Winchester, where you saw his game improve overall.

Lee absolutly must become a more physical defenseman, that is the only way he will become a a fixture on any NHL team. He doesnt have the vision or shot to be a legit offensive threat, but he most certainly has the size and skating ability to be a solid defender. His mind set has to change along with his game, hopefully he does it.

Glad to see other people appreciating Winchester, who, as I have said for months now, simply makes every line he is ever on better, period.

Scratch one mini-project / tantrum-inducing subject off my list. Now, if I can just get you guys on board with Picard, the other undeserved whipping boy from last year, I'll have fewer things to curse under my breath about as I roam about the site...

Murray sought out Picard for a reason, and it was unfortunate he had some injury trouble last year, so look forward what he brings to the table this year for the Sens, starting at camp next week.

Why would people? He makes under a mil, can put the puck in the net and is our 5/6 D man... he's fine in that spot and is what? 22 years old?

N4L wrote:Why would people? He makes under a mil, can put the puck in the net and is our 5/6 D man... he's fine in that spot and is what? 22 years old?

Largely because they thought he was sloppy in his own end.

Which might be a fair criticism except for the fact that 1) the team was a mess under Hartsburg, top to bottom, 2) Picard was injured when Clouston arrived and never got to be a part of the Clouston turn-around, and 3) Picard is a 5-6th, young, OFFENSIVE defenceman, but some people seem to be expecting him to be Robyn Regher or Anton Volchenkov already.

Ya, welcome to Ottawa.

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:I dont whip Picard, I actually just said I put him on the same level and Meszaros in the other thread.

You're about 1 of 4 sensible people here who don't habitually bash him. :___:

We've had this discussion in the past and I see him much the way you do. I'm just curious who the 4th person is

cas wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:I dont whip Picard, I actually just said I put him on the same level and Meszaros in the other thread.

You're about 1 of 4 sensible people here who don't habitually bash him. :___:

We've had this discussion in the past and I see him much the way you do. I'm just curious who the 4th person is

Spez has been something of a (somewhat waffling) supporter. Possible asq2, too, if I remember right.

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:Why would people? He makes under a mil, can put the puck in the net and is our 5/6 D man... he's fine in that spot and is what? 22 years old?

Largely because they thought he was sloppy in his own end.

Which might be a fair criticism except for the fact that 1) the team was a mess under Hartsburg, top to bottom, 2) Picard was injured when Clouston arrived and never got to be a part of the Clouston turn-around, and 3) Picard is a 5-6th, young, OFFENSIVE defenceman, but some people seem to be expecting him to be Robyn Regher or Anton Volchenkov already.

All true but none of that saves him from the reality that competition will be tough in camp and if he doesn't impress, that 1-way of his is his ticket out of town.

I'm confident he'll seal a spot on Day 1, but its far from a sure thing.

The people that basj guys like Winchester and Picard are usually they people that defend Spezza in all his glory. The people who think he should be the first line center on the Olypmic team. Im pretty sure it was Spezza hanging off the cross at his wedding.

rooneypoo wrote:

cas wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:I dont whip Picard, I actually just said I put him on the same level and Meszaros in the other thread.

You're about 1 of 4 sensible people here who don't habitually bash him. :___:

We've had this discussion in the past and I see him much the way you do. I'm just curious who the 4th person is

Spez has been something of a (somewhat waffling) supporter. Possible asq2, too, if I remember right.

So thats 5 in a fan base of 500,000...

I like his chances.

Picard is a guy Murray believes in, he was a key peice to the deal when we got him. I trust Murray's eye for talent and as anyone who knows hockey knows, defensive defense is the hardest skill to learn in the NHL and it takes a while for a young defenseman to get it. Positioning, anticipation and switching are quite complicated at NHL game speed.

cas wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:Why would people? He makes under a mil, can put the puck in the net and is our 5/6 D man... he's fine in that spot and is what? 22 years old?

Largely because they thought he was sloppy in his own end.

Which might be a fair criticism except for the fact that 1) the team was a mess under Hartsburg, top to bottom, 2) Picard was injured when Clouston arrived and never got to be a part of the Clouston turn-around, and 3) Picard is a 5-6th, young, OFFENSIVE defenceman, but some people seem to be expecting him to be Robyn Regher or Anton Volchenkov already.

All true but none of that saves him from the reality that competition will be tough in camp and if he doesn't impress, that 1-way of his is his ticket out of town.

I'm confident he'll seal a spot on Day 1, but its far from a sure thing.

Actually, I think Smith's retiring pretty much cements our D lineup for this year, with Kuba, Phillips, Volchenkov, and Campoli all locks, and with Lee, Picard, and Karlsson all fighting for spots 5 and 6, probably all season long. No reason to ship any of those three guys out -- none at all, as both Lee and Karlsson are on 2-way deals.

The only guy left out of the picture, if you still count him as a D on this team, is Schubert. And the only way he displaces Picard is if we can't possibly get Schubert off the team through trade or waivers and are stuck with his salary (can't imagine Melnyk letting us bury almost $1 mil in Bingo), or if he's a piece required to get, say, the Heatley deal done.

But, more realistically, I think Picard, Lee, and Karlsson will battle for those bottom two spots all year long. If things go as expected, Karlsson will claim a spot for himself before season's end -- and then we'll have to make the decision -- Lee OR Picard.