Toronto Blue Jays Talk

NEELY wrote:
Morrow is pretty solid and will be if he can stay healthy. But yah, pitching wins and that's been proven for 100 years. Put 9 Galaraga's in the lineup and if they don't have pitching, they will lose.

I'm telling you, you will not find a better starting rotation in baseball.

Don't let people who are taking this opportunity to Dung on the Jays sway your opinion. Mark Buerhle has thrown 12 straight seasons of 200 innings or more, he's a professional who will come prepared to pitch. The scouting report before we got him was that he was prone to a bad inning here and there - and with the Jays lack of production, that's maximized right now, but he's no slouch.

Josh Johnson has one of the most electric arms in the league. He's got nasty stuff - an 'ace' arm that hasn't put it together yet this year.

Brendan Morrow is a stud. No explanation needed, just watch him.

RA Dickey didn't win the Cy Young by accident last year. He's a quality arm obviously.

Happ is a nice 5th starter. Not overpowering, but great control.

Romero will come along at some point I would imagine. His stuff is too good not to.

NEELY wrote:He was up and down in AAA for basically a decade. 2011 was his first season where he didn't pitch an inning in the minors.

Who cares? He pitched 175 innings in 2010 - that's a starter - with decent stats to boot. These knucklers take a while to get it perfected.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:
Morrow is pretty solid and will be if he can stay healthy. But yah, pitching wins and that's been proven for 100 years. Put 9 Galaraga's in the lineup and if they don't have pitching, they will lose.

I'm telling you, you will not find a better starting rotation in baseball.

Don't let people who are taking this opportunity to Dung on the Jays sway your opinion. Mark Buerhle has thrown 12 straight seasons of 200 innings or more, he's a professional who will come prepared to pitch. The scouting report before we got him was that he was prone to a bad inning here and there - and with the Jays lack of production, that's maximized right now, but he's no slouch.

Josh Johnson has one of the most electric arms in the league. He's got nasty stuff - an 'ace' arm that hasn't put it together yet this year.

Brendan Morrow is a stud. No explanation needed, just watch him.

RA Dickey didn't win the Cy Young by accident last year. He's a quality arm obviously.

Happ is a nice 5th starter. Not overpowering, but great control.

Romero will come along at some point I would imagine. His stuff is too good not to.

I'll bet you Toronto doesn't even finish in the top 10 in team ERA this season. Willing to take that?

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:He was up and down in AAA for basically a decade. 2011 was his first season where he didn't pitch an inning in the minors.

Who cares? He pitched 175 innings in 2010 - that's a starter - with decent stats to boot. These knucklers take a while to get it perfected.

He hasn't been a great pitcher ever, that's the point. He had a great year last year in a career filled with mediocrity.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:
Morrow is pretty solid and will be if he can stay healthy. But yah, pitching wins and that's been proven for 100 years. Put 9 Galaraga's in the lineup and if they don't have pitching, they will lose.

I'm telling you, you will not find a better starting rotation in baseball.

Don't let people who are taking this opportunity to Dung on the Jays sway your opinion. Mark Buerhle has thrown 12 straight seasons of 200 innings or more, he's a professional who will come prepared to pitch. The scouting report before we got him was that he was prone to a bad inning here and there - and with the Jays lack of production, that's maximized right now, but he's no slouch.

Josh Johnson has one of the most electric arms in the league. He's got nasty stuff - an 'ace' arm that hasn't put it together yet this year.

Brendan Morrow is a stud. No explanation needed, just watch him.

RA Dickey didn't win the Cy Young by accident last year. He's a quality arm obviously.

Happ is a nice 5th starter. Not overpowering, but great control.

Romero will come along at some point I would imagine. His stuff is too good not to.

I'll bet you Toronto doesn't even finish in the top 10 in team ERA this season. Willing to take that?

If there's one sport I never bet on, it's baseball. Plus, I don't know enough about the National League starters to fully comment. All I can tell you is what I already have. These are consummate pros the Jays acquired.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:He was up and down in AAA for basically a decade. 2011 was his first season where he didn't pitch an inning in the minors.

Who cares? He pitched 175 innings in 2010 - that's a starter - with decent stats to boot. These knucklers take a while to get it perfected.

He hasn't been a great pitcher ever, that's the point. He had a great year last year in a career filled with mediocrity.

Here's, I'll give you the link to his stats for the last few years. Note the ERA and WHIP.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/teams/players/bio/?id=1628

Not sure how this isn't backing up my point entirely, lol.

NEELY wrote:Not sure how this isn't backing up my point entirely, lol.

? You said he wasn't a quality major league pitcher the last 3 years, that proves, conclusively, that you're wrong.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Not sure how this isn't backing up my point entirely, lol.

? You said he wasn't a quality major league pitcher the last 3 years, that proves, conclusively, that you're wrong.

"He was up and down in AAA for basically a decade. 2011 was his first season where he didn't pitch an inning in the minors." Are you trying to disprove that fact because by posting the exact facts it doesn't help.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Not sure how this isn't backing up my point entirely, lol.

? You said he wasn't a quality major league pitcher the last 3 years, that proves, conclusively, that you're wrong.

"He was up and down in AAA for basically a decade. 2011 was his first season where he didn't pitch an inning in the minors." Are you trying to disprove that fact because by posting the exact facts it doesn't help.

I already acknowledged that that meant nothing. He logged 175 innings in 2010 - that's a starter - with good numbers to boot.

I bolded the important key words this time.

So where were his other great years? That's all I am asking. What on earth makes anyone believe last year wasn't a one off where he had his best year by a mile... not to mention the fact he doesn't face pitchers in the AL and his numbers will reflect that.

Lets start in 2011, where he posted a 3.28 ERA and a 1.23 WHIP. The ERA is good for 25th in the league and 13th in the National League. His WHIP was also 23rd in the National League.

What that means is: if he's posting a losing record, it's certainly not because he's pitching poorly.

In 2010, his WHIP was 25th in the entire league and his ERA was 10th. Again, if he's posting a losing record, it's not because he's pitching poorly -on the contrary, he's one of the most consistent pitchers in all of baseball.

Is he as good as Verlander or Kershaw or Wainwright? No, likely not. Not with only one pitch (well three, but one devastating pitch), but he's in the same league at that point.*

*2010 interestingly was the year that Johnson won the ERA crown for the National League and was second only to the great Hernandez for the league lead by .03 runs per game.

In 2009 he came in 87th in WHIP and 68th overall in ERA. This was the beginning of the emergence of RA Dickey. 87th isn't gonna blow people away, nor is 68th overall, but it means that Dickey went from nothing to a 2nd starter in the rotation.*

*If you want to dig deeper, then look at 2008 in Seattle where his 1.56 WHIP would place him in the top 60, but the Seattle ball club sucked like a vaccuum.

What's Dicky's lifetime wins/loss? 61-58... whoa, get his plaque ready... keep in mind he was 20-6 last year.

So take last year away and it's what? 41-52. Yah, those are the wins and loses of a "great" pitcher.

NEELY wrote:What's Dicky's lifetime wins/loss? 61-58... whoa, get his plaque ready... keep in mind he was 20-6 last year.

So take last year away and it's what? 41-52. Yah, those are the wins and loses of a "great" pitcher.

Do you even read what I post? I mean...I took the time to specifically address his won/lost record and I feel I wasted my time.

Meh. What have you done for me lately? Won the Cy Young? Yeah, I'll take you.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:What's Dicky's lifetime wins/loss? 61-58... whoa, get his plaque ready... keep in mind he was 20-6 last year.

So take last year away and it's what? 41-52. Yah, those are the wins and loses of a "great" pitcher.

Do you even read what I post? I mean...I took the time to specifically address his won/lost record and I feel I wasted my time.

He had one great season, a couple decent ones, then others (the majority) where he just bounced up and down from the minors. You addressed his win loss record aka a list of excuses.

You get way too involved with the on paper things. Baseball doesn't seem to be that different than hockey.

They'd be in 1st if they had Terry Francona managing, IMO. Too bad.

Ev wrote:They'd be in 1st if they had Terry Francona managing, IMO. Missed the boat.

Okay, now that's a fair comment. I wondered why he was passed over as well.

Doesn't matter right now though, we're 8 games into a 162 game schedule. If they're gonna slump, now is the time. If they need to find their identities, now's the time.