Jacques Martin to be named coach of the Habs

davetherave wrote:If you're a Senators fan, why do you hate Jacques Martin so much when he got your team to the playoffs eight years in a row?
:KJK:

I don't hate Martin personally, but he had the teams to win at least one Cup and couldn't get them over the hump. Lalime? Yeah, not Patrick Roy, but I think he had some of the best numbers in history at the time.

41 games, 21 wins, 20 losses, .926 save %, 1.77 GAA.

That means that Lalime got it done, but the rest of the team couldn't score. For what reason? Who knows, but at some point in those 6 or 7 years, you point the finger at the coaching staff as well as Lalime and the players.

This man cannot win in the post season. No one knows why, but it's the truth. If he had a chance, he got outcoached.

I love some of the headlines coming out:

"Dull and Duller"

"Yawn of a new era"

Too funny.

shabbs wrote:I love some of the headlines coming out:

"Dull and Duller"

"Yawn of a new era"

Too funny.

:^^^^: We should have a GMCentral Game where we have to take a shot every time Martin says 'No doubt..." in a presser.

SensFan71 wrote:

davetherave wrote:

Acrobat wrote:

davetherave wrote:Excellent choice for Jacques Martin, and for Le Canadien.

...for Le Canadien's opponents. corrected.

If you're a Senators fan, why do you hate Jacques Martin so much when he got your team to the playoffs eight years in a row?
:KJK:

His coaching style never got us to the holy grail, and yeah, you can argue that no one else's has either, but that many years of losing to the Leafs and not one change in approach, it was utter frustration, the trap don't work anymore in the playoffs, he misjudged talent and held players back (ie Spezza), it was a bitter divorce between the Sens and Martin.

Held back Spezza? The kid was 18 and 19 years old and not ready to play on a 1st place, NHL team. Thats hardly holding him back. Look at the guy now, I wish he was in Bingo a lot longer than he was.

Whether he held him back or not, you can't argue that he played favorites and held a grudge. A coach has to be a lot more flexible than that.

Every coach plays favorites! That's how coaches win. They play the guys who think they can win with.

What did Spezza earn when he was 18 or 19? He literally came into the NHL expecting to play, Martin said he was ready, and even now it shows, ESPECIALLY back then he wasnt.

I disagree a lot with what Martin did here, but holding Spezza back and trying to force him to learn how to play the game on another level wasnt one of them. Look at Detroit, when was the last time you saw a teenager play in Detroit? I think it was Yzerman and even then they were a last place team.

I dont care who you are an 18 year old kid (with the exception of a guy like Crosby) will never play on a 1st place team, nor should they. Muckler was the guy that screwed up the organization in so many ways its not even funny. He messed up drafting, the farm system, and I blame him 100% for the way Spezza has turned out.

I'm not arguing about Spezza, and a coach should reward for performance, not personal preference. If he thought he could win with those guys then he was obviously wrong.

He was still 1 game, 1 goal away from exactly where the Sens ended up 2 years ago. He took a last place, joke of a franchise and turned it into a powerhouse for years.

Martin won with the guys he had and with a goaltender that could have been counted on consistantly (GM's job) it could have been different.

People in Ottawa are way too quick to jump on a guy that took a team from the depths of the NHL basement to the top of the league. He developed maybe the most complete winger in the game in Alfdresson, turned Chara into what he is today, and made Redden look like a word class player. He did more than 99% of the coaches in the league could have done, with what he had.

That's not entirely fair. We've had discussions about Lalime and his amazing playoff numbers. He couldn't coach playoff hockey. He could farm the Dung out of players and make them into better players, but when push came to shove, he wasn't the guy you wanted in your corner.

I'm grateful for what he did for the franchise and I wish him well, but he's in for a rough ride in Montreal IMO.

Neely4Life wrote:He was still 1 game, 1 goal away from exactly where the Sens ended up 2 years ago. He took a last place, joke of a franchise and turned it into a powerhouse for years.

Martin won with the guys he had and with a goaltender that could have been counted on consistantly (GM's job) it could have been different.

People in Ottawa are way too quick to jump on a guy that took a team from the depths of the NHL basement to the top of the league. He developed maybe the most complete winger in the game in Alfdresson, turned Chara into what he is today, and made Redden look like a word class player. He did more than 99% of the coaches in the league could have done, with what he had.

He was great as a mentor for a young team. The high draft picks did not hurt. Say what you want about Yahin, he was a very good player. Phillips was -- for better or worse -- a 1st overall.

Seven of his 8 times in the post-season with the Sens he lost before reaching the ECF. Not a good record for the "best" team in the league.

504Heater wrote:That's not entirely fair. We've had discussions about Lalime and his amazing playoff numbers. He couldn't coach playoff hockey. He could farm the Dung out of players and make them into better players, but when push came to shove, he wasn't the guy you wanted in your corner.

I'm grateful for what he did for the franchise and I wish him well, but he's in for a rough ride in Montreal IMO.

Lalime was great in the playoffs, but he did let in those goals that should be stopped at the worst times. I dont blame Lalime at all for the playoff failure as I do think it was on Martin, but he still developed some of the best players in the league today... if Muckler and the fans were patient with Spezza and didnt want to force him into the lineup, we could be talkin about him as one of the best.

I think Martin as a coach isnt the best guy out there, not even close, but he is a greater teacher. Anyways, the mistakes he made at the end were pretty evident, but Spezza wasnt one of them, in fact he made the right choices for the Sens and the franchise in general.

wprager wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:He was still 1 game, 1 goal away from exactly where the Sens ended up 2 years ago. He took a last place, joke of a franchise and turned it into a powerhouse for years.

Martin won with the guys he had and with a goaltender that could have been counted on consistantly (GM's job) it could have been different.

People in Ottawa are way too quick to jump on a guy that took a team from the depths of the NHL basement to the top of the league. He developed maybe the most complete winger in the game in Alfdresson, turned Chara into what he is today, and made Redden look like a word class player. He did more than 99% of the coaches in the league could have done, with what he had.

He was great as a mentor for a young team. The high draft picks did not hurt. Say what you want about Yahin, he was a very good player. Phillips was -- for better or worse -- a 1st overall.

Seven of his 8 times in the post-season with the Sens he lost before reaching the ECF. Not a good record for the "best" team in the league.

The two best player he ever turned out were passed over by every team in the NHL more than once, Alfi and Chara. Martin did an amazing job here and if he did anything right here, it was the way he turned players into complete NHLers and professionals. Going back to the original thought on this, why was Spezza exempt from all of that? Once again, a Muckler F up.

OK, as Shabbs pointed out on another thread, let's check back in a year and see how JM has done. My personal opinion is that this was not a good hire by the Candiens, especially if Gainey is fired and the new GM wants to bring in his own pick (and I do think that Gainey's days are numbered).

wprager wrote:OK, as Shabbs pointed out on another thread, let's check back in a year and see how JM has done. My personal opinion is that this was not a good hire by the Candiens, especially if Gainey is fired and the new GM wants to bring in his own pick (and I do think that Gainey's days are numbered).

Oh, I dont think he will do anything in MTL, all I'm saying is what he did in Ottawa was nothing but good and shouldnt be ignored.

I also just wanted to make it clear that he was doing what was best for Spezza and The Sens when Spezza came into the league. Again, to this day I blame Muckler for how Spezza has turned out.

wprager wrote:OK, as Shabbs pointed out on another thread, let's check back in a year and see how JM has done. My personal opinion is that this was not a good hire by the Candiens, especially if Gainey is fired and the new GM wants to bring in his own pick (and I do think that Gainey's days are numbered).

I agree that this was a questionable hire.

Neely4Life wrote:
Oh, I dont think he will do anything in MTL, all I'm saying is what he did in Ottawa was nothing but good and shouldnt be ignored.

I also just wanted to make it clear that he was doing what was best for Spezza and The Sens when Spezza came into the league. Again, to this day I blame Muckler for how Spezza has turned out.

I agree with most of this. I think the job he did here was excellent, but nothing but good? I have to disagree. I thought we could have won a championship - especially when Martin has worked so hard to make Chara, Havlat etc. who they are (I think Alfie was going to be great either way).

It hurts me in the heart to think that we didn't win a championship under his tenure. We should have, now we're back to re-tooling and tinkering whilst being somewhere in the 8-12 spot in the East.

I wish we had gotten Bryan Murray as a coach around 3 years sooner - and I wish that Muckler has addressed our goaltending right from the start as well. Two things that I think everyone can agree on: we left Martin in charge too long - and Muckler diddled a lot of things up (and did some things right as well).

Make it 3 things we can probably all agree on. The third thing being, this was a weak hiring by the Habs.

That's my opinion anyway.

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:OK, as Shabbs pointed out on another thread, let's check back in a year and see how JM has done. My personal opinion is that this was not a good hire by the Candiens, especially if Gainey is fired and the new GM wants to bring in his own pick (and I do think that Gainey's days are numbered).

Oh, I dont think he will do anything in MTL, all I'm saying is what he did in Ottawa was nothing but good and shouldnt be ignored.

I also just wanted to make it clear that he was doing what was best for Spezza and The Sens when Spezza came into the league. Again, to this day I blame Muckler for how Spezza has turned out.

He may have been doing what was good for Spezza and the team, but he went out in public and said things that should have been kept private.

And I'm not ignoring the good he did in Ottawa. It's just that the team progressed and he did not.

Mind you, all that said, with all those UFAs/RFAs in Montreal, they might be starting a lineup filled with 1st and 2nd year players. So, perhaps, Martin will do a good job with the kids.

We'll have to agree to not agree, is that it? We'll see how this shakes out by next April.